Johnson #1 in next ISS Rating

[Beukeboom Fan]

You never have a guarantee. For a team like the Caps, they have no options that are good enough to play with AO. AO made the jump as did Crosby and others have too. 5-10 I would say will take a year. 1-5 should compete for a roster spot imho.

Under the new CBA, player become UFA's after 7 years of service. That means that every team that throws their prospects into the deep end of the pool (NHL) as 18 or 19 year olds potentially loses a year or two of keeping that players rights without having them obtain UFA status during the prime (23-35) of their careers.

If I was a GM, a player would have to be VERY ready for the NHL for me to keep him up as a 18/19 YO. Some very rare players are ready (AO, Crosby), but the vast majority are not.

 

[ZombieMatt]

No comparison to Daigle. Daigle had phenomenal skating, but he was essentially a one-tool player who never worked to hone his other abilities. He used that skating to a fast start in the NHL (was rookie of the month in October of 1993), but opponents quickly figured him out. Kessel is stronger, smarter and owns a better shot.

I disagree. There are a lot of similarities in STYLE (not in what will happen with their careers) between Alexander Daigle and Phil Kessel.

Both possess great speed.

Both possess a few fantastic moves that absolutely dominate their junior level of play and are really impressive.

Both are physically weak and get pushed around by players their own age.

Both possessed very good goal scoring instincts.

I don't expect Phil Kessel to be a bust at all, I'm sure he will go on to have a successful NHL career, but stylistically, I couldn't disagree with somebody who said their are similarities between the two. Saying anybody is similar to Daigle has obvious negative connotation and certainly supporters will rebel against any notion of similarity, but purely in terms of how they look on the ice, I definitely see some things they have in common.

 

[HfxMoose]

In the #1 spot now where he belongs

 

[Slats432]

A few comments here. First let me insert my "list".
1) Johnson (Going w/ISS rating)
2) Kessel
3) Staal
4) Toews
5) Little
6) Frolik/Joenesuu/Sheppard/Meuller/Okposo

I see Kessel/Staal as a Bobby Carpenter/Ron Francis choice. Sure Carpenter had 50 goals starting out. Ron Francis had the more complete game and was still an offensive threat. When he slows down or people study his moves, he still has his size.

Joenesuu-
This guy size wise seems to be made for the NHL. If he is dropping he may be the next Latendresse(drops but performs better than expected.) Can someone who has a grip on this guy compare him to Joe Thornton at this point in Thornton career?

Mueller-
Is he a top player or in that 5-10 range or later?

Sheppard-
Same question as Meuller

Others-
Anyone know how far Vasyunov(sp?) has fallen? Anyone else to keep an eye on for top 10? Any goalers in Top10?

Backstrom.

As for Vasyunov, he had fallen to 28th on the McKeen's last ranking.

 

[St.Louis sports fan]

IMHO if the Blues pick no.1 they have to take Erik Johnson. Can any Everett(sp?) fans help me out on Peter Mueller? What I saw of him he reminds of Keith Tkatchuk. He is good along the boards and impossible to move infront of the net. He was on the top penalty kill units for the US and is only 17. Showed nice hands on the break-away vs. Canada. After seeing him, finally for myself I don't know why people doubt him. I'm not bashing at all, but what is about Toews that makes him better than Mueller? I've only seen him once vs. the US and he didn't play much. I'll say this if Frolik, Toews, Joensuu, Backstrom, and Staal are all better than Mueller then this is going to be one heck of a draft.

 

[reidy]

nash,

I've read that Kessel's shot compares favorably to Sakic's... how is he not in Kovalchuk's league, shot-wise, then?

 

[Nash]

nash,

I've read that Kessel's shot compares favorably to Sakic's... how is he not in Kovalchuk's league, shot-wise, then?

I certainly didn't see it in the WJC this year. Shremp looked to have a much harder shot then Kessel.

Does Kessel really have that deadly of a shot? Is that an overrated part of his game? Do you really think it is better then Kovalchuk already? Or Sakic? Or Ovechkin?

 

[Spetzky]

I haven't been suprised with either the consensus top players.
Mueller is probably my favorite to jump away and grab the number
one spot.

 

[reidy]

I certainly didn't see it in the WJC this year. Shremp looked to have a much harder shot then Kessel.

Does Kessel really have that deadly of a shot? Is that an overrated part of his game? Do you really think it is better then Kovalchuk already? Or Sakic? Or Ovechkin?

I've actually only seen Kessel play once (and that was in person when the NTDP played the Jr. Bruins last January), and the only thing I noticed about him was his amazing set of wheels. I don't remember him actually shooting the puck, I'm just going by what I've read.

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

I haven't been suprised with either the consensus top players.
Mueller is probably my favorite to jump away and grab the number
one spot.

You have got to be kidding me...

 

[Nash]

I haven't been suprised with either the consensus top players.
Mueller is probably my favorite to jump away and grab the number
one spot.

I saw him live during the WJC and both Kessel and Johnson are better then him. Seeing how Jordan Staal's brothers both improved after they were drafted, he would probably be the most likely prospect in the top 10 to move up in the rankings.

 

[MN_Gopher]

I certainly didn't see it in the WJC this year. Shremp looked to have a much harder shot then Kessel.

Does Kessel really have that deadly of a shot? Is that an overrated part of his game? Do you really think it is better then Kovalchuk already? Or Sakic? Or Ovechkin?

Playing center he does not get those pefect scoring chances like a wing does. When he does shoot he does have that shot. Before i claim Sakic or Illya like, it would be nice to see him play regular on a wing. All but two goals have come 5-5. And one was as a penalty expierded missed being a shorty by a few seconds.

 

[Nash]

Playing center he does not get those pefect scoring chances like a wing does. When he does shoot he does have that shot. Before i claim Sakic or Illya like, it would be nice to see him play regular on a wing. All but two goals have come 5-5. And one was as a penalty expierded missed being a shorty by a few seconds.

He should be converted to a winger as his style seems to be more suited to that role, but his play along the boards would have to improve quite a bit.

Last year people were talking about his speed, shot and his ability to do things at top speed. This year I really haven't seen any articles that talk about his shot as anything spectacular. I probably haven't seen him live as much as you have, but I didn't see anything that really stood out in his shooting ability during the WJC games I saw him play. He may have an above average shot for his age, but he didn't stand out as the top shooter in that tournament. As I said, Shremp's shot looked much better to me. To even mention an 18 year old as having a shot on par with Sakic, who arguably has one of the best, if not the best shots in the NHL, is pretty unrealistic and reeks of overhype to me.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

He should be converted to a winger as his style seems to be more suited to that role, but his play along the boards would have to improve quite a bit.

Last year people were talking about his speed, shot and his ability to do things at top speed. This year I really haven't seen any articles that talk about his shot as anything spectacular. I probably haven't seen him live as much as you have, but I didn't see anything that really stood out in his shooting ability during the WJC games I saw him play. He may have an above average shot for his age, but he didn't stand out as the top shooter in that tournament. As I said, Shremp's shot looked much better to me. To even mention an 18 year old as having a shot on par with Sakic, who arguably has one of the best, if not the best shots in the NHL, is pretty unrealistic and reeks of overhype to me.

Kessel does have a great shot, and he's not shy about using it (he leads Minnesota by a fair amount if I'm not mistaken). Personally, I think he was trying to show more of a playmaking side at this year's WJC's. He had mixed success, but I think that was his objective, that he was more than a goalscorer. I think the truth is somewhere in between last year's coming out party and this year's relative disappointment.

 

[Ola]

Joensuu will NOT go #6. He's having a really medicore year and was, on all accounts, just plain not good at the WJCs.

Its funny when you see "experts" (scouting services) having him as a top 10 pick. He just isn't that good in any aspect of his game. I wouldn't be suprised if he dropped out of the 1st round. I just don't think he have top 2 line potential in the NHL. At best a solid 3rd lineer. Two seasons ago I could have understood it if someone thought he belonged in the top 10 but not anymore. My guess is that he will become a Jonas Höglund type of player.

 

[SPG]

The guy said Kessel is 17, i'm just pointing out that he turns 19 - legal drinking age - this year.

He's not 17, but he's closer to being 17 than 19. At that age, nine months is a long time in someone's life... a lot can happen.

 

[Nash]

Kessel does have a great shot, and he's not shy about using it (he leads Minnesota by a fair amount if I'm not mistaken). Personally, I think he was trying to show more of a playmaking side at this year's WJC's. He had mixed success, but I think that was his objective, that he was more than a goalscorer. I think the truth is somewhere in between last year's coming out party and this year's relative disappointment.

I wouldn't disagree that he is an above average to exceptional shooter in his draft class. That does not put him on par with Sakic/Kovalchuk who are physically mature, proven snipers in the NHL.

I've seen you argue this point about PK using the WJC to show scouts that he is more then just a sniper. I just don't buy it. These guys go to the WJCs for one reason and one reason only ... to win Gold. Why would he have this alternate agenda that strays away from his core strengths? Why would his coach allow him to play for the scouts rather then for his team. Obviously he would like the world to see that he is more then just a sniper, but why would he push it to the detriment of his game? I just think that he did not have a great tournament, regardless of his final standing in the stats race. Take away the Norway game and he was a point per game player with 1G 5A in his other 6 games and he only had 1A in those games at even strength.

He is a legitimate top prospect in his draft class, but some people make him out to be the next generational talent, which just isn't fair to him. His top end potential could put him as one of the top goal producers in the NHL in the future, but as a prospect, he still has a long way to go to come close to realizing that potential. I really don't think he will step into the NHL as an 18 year old and if he does, it could end up being a mistake and hurt his development. He probably needs at least another year as a top line forward (he should be put on the wing), getting lots of minutes and being able to improve against lesser opposition.

He hasn't taken a step back in his development, but others are closing the gap. I believe that EJ has passed him to take the #1 ranking. Other players might end up ahead of him by draft day as well ... the season is still young and the Under 18 World Championship will reveal a little more as to where these players stack up against one another.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

I wouldn't disagree that he is an above average to exceptional shooter in his draft class. That does not put him on par with Sakic/Kovalchuk who are physically mature, proven snipers in the NHL.

I've seen you argue this point about PK using the WJC to show scouts that he is more then just a sniper. I just don't buy it. These guys go to the WJCs for one reason and one reason only ... to win Gold. Why would he have this alternate agenda that strays away from his core strengths? Why would his coach allow him to play for the scouts rather then for his team. Obviously he would like the world to see that he is more then just a sniper, but why would he push it to the detriment of his game? I just think that he did not have a great tournament, regardless of his final standing in the stats race. Take away the Norway game and he was a point per game player with 1G 5A in his other 6 games and he only had 1A in those games at even strength.

He is a legitimate top prospect in his draft class, but some people make him out to be the next generational talent, which just isn't fair to him. His top end potential could put him as one of the top goal producers in the NHL in the future, but as a prospect, he still has a long way to go to come close to realizing that potential. I really don't think he will step into the NHL as an 18 year old and if he does, it could end up being a mistake and hurt his development. He probably needs at least another year as a top line forward (he should be put on the wing), getting lots of minutes and being able to improve against lesser opposition.

He hasn't taken a step back in his development, but others are closing the gap. I believe that EJ has passed him to take the #1 ranking. Other players might end up ahead of him by draft day as well ... the season is still young and the Under 18 World Championship will reveal a little more as to where these players stack up against one another.

I'm not saying Kessel had a agenda at the WJC's, but if you think players aren't aware of how they are perceived (as people, skills, strengths & weaknesses) then I think you're being a tad naive. Like I said, I think Kessel's potential as a player lies somewhere between what we saw last year in North Dakota and what we saw this year in British Columbia. Is he a generational talent? No, but he's IMO the class of his draft year, which is a nice accomplishment nonetheless.

I would agree that Kessel has alot to work on, but if you would watch him at Minnesota, you would see that he's doing that. People need to get over the fact that the WJC's aren't the end all when it comes to projecting how good a player will be at the pro level. The fact is, Kessel has had a great WJC, a average WJC, and a phenomenal U18's, a tournament that many say is more important when it comes to guaging pro potential than the WJC's. We'll see how a guy like Toews fares at the U18's this year. he'll be hard-pressed to do better than Kessel last year.

 

[Anthony Mauro]

Its funny when you see "experts" (scouting services) having him as a top 10 pick. He just isn't that good in any aspect of his game. I wouldn't be suprised if he dropped out of the 1st round. I just don't think he have top 2 line potential in the NHL. At best a solid 3rd lineer. Two seasons ago I could have understood it if someone thought he belonged in the top 10 but not anymore. My guess is that he will become a Jonas Höglund type of player.

I'm expecting an Evseev/Latendresse type of dive from Joensuu. I just don't think size should make a players status in the first round. Why take Joensuu when there's Backstrom, Okposo, Williams, Emmerton, Brassard and so many other talented kids?

 

[Nash]

I'm not saying Kessel had a agenda at the WJC's, but if you think players aren't aware of how they are perceived (as people, skills, strengths & weaknesses) then I think you're being a tad naive. Like I said, I think Kessel's potential as a player lies somewhere between what we saw last year in North Dakota and what we saw this year in British Columbia. Is he a generational talent? No, but he's IMO the class of his draft year, which is a nice accomplishment nonetheless.

Of course PK is aware of how he is perceived ... he's in college ... he should be able to read. As for potential between ND 05 and BC 06, he was better this year then last. He should continue that trend.

I would agree that Kessel has alot to work on, but if you would watch him at Minnesota, you would see that he's doing that. People need to get over the fact that the WJC's aren't the end all when it comes to projecting how good a player will be at the pro level. The fact is, Kessel has had a great WJC, a average WJC, and a phenomenal U18's, a tournament that many say is more important when it comes to guaging pro potential than the WJC's. We'll see how a guy like Toews fares at the U18's this year. he'll be hard-pressed to do better than Kessel last year.

I would argue that Kessel has not had a great WJC yet. He's had two pretty good ones though. Maybe next year will be his great one. Last year, he had one great game against Sweden and picked up a point against each of Belarus and Switzerland. That's pretty good for a 17 year old. I realize he did not get the minutes last year that he got this year, but he was way more consistent this year. As for this year, points don't tell the whole story. His U18 last year was fantastic. Unfortunately, he won't be eligible for this year's team. It's too bad because it would be nice to see Mueller, PK, EJ, Towes, Staal, Little & Frolik all up against each other before the draft.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Does not really matter, Kessel or Johnson in the end, Pittsburgh is going to be very happy with either.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Of course PK is aware of how he is perceived ... he's in college ... he should be able to read. As for potential between ND 05 and BC 06, he was better this year then last. He should continue that trend.



I would argue that Kessel has not had a great WJC yet. He's had two pretty good ones though. Maybe next year will be his great one. Last year, he had one great game against Sweden and picked up a point against each of Belarus and Switzerland. That's pretty good for a 17 year old. I realize he did not get the minutes last year that he got this year, but he was way more consistent this year. As for this year, points don't tell the whole story. His U18 last year was fantastic. Unfortunately, he won't be eligible for this year's team. It's too bad because it would be nice to see Mueller, PK, EJ, Towes, Staal, Little & Frolik all up against each other before the draft.

Fair points all around. One of the main points I'd like to impress on people though is instead of relying on a couple of tournaments to guage Kessel's progress and pro-potential, watch him week in and week out at Minnesota. He has made steady, if not rapid progress from the beginning of the year until now, and I anticipate that trend continuing.