Johnson #1 in next ISS Rating

[Hunter Gathers]

Joensuu will NOT go #6. He's having a really medicore year and was, on all accounts, just plain not good at the WJCs.

 

[joe_shannon_1983*]

In him, I see parallels to Daigle.

I said that to my wife (who is a huge hockey fan) the other night.

Daigle was a guy who had a lot of speed in junior hockey, and could completely rely on this speed to create scoring chances. Speed was all he needed to score in junior, and using only speed to create scoring chances became a habit for him. However, when he entered the NHL, almost every player had speed, and they took away the huge (only) advantage that Daigle had mostly used to rack up so many points in junior. When he couldn't rely solely on his speed anymore, Daigle became neutered. He couldn't adjust, couldn't create chances, and fizzled out.

Kessel has seemed the same way playing against faster, stronger, and more defensive teams. If you can skate with Kessel, and play physical with him, he becomes invisible.

But I will hold my complete judgement on whether or not Kessel is another Daigle until after I see Kessel play a few NHL seasons.

 

[joe_shannon_1983*]

I think Mueller, Staal, and Frolik all have VERY good shots of being picked before Toews.

Mueller looked either really bad or merely invisible in every game I saw him play (Canada, Czech Republic, Russia, and Finland).

 

[MN_Gopher]

I really do not care as both Johnson and Kessel will be gophers next year. But people fell in love with Kessel after the Sweden game. All his potential. Same thing is happeneing with Johnson.

Last year Kessel was out of the limlight and played. This year he was double shifted and ate up lots of PP time. He is a guy that flies around. If USA had played Gerbe and Wheeler and such. Layed some hits, forechecked hard and rested Kessel and let him get on the ice on a good match up with some rest i think he would have looked much better. Kessel is no horse that will pull a team to victory on his back.

I do have to give Johson credit though. With the short bench he looked very good out there and logged lots of minutes. No doubt he vaulted into that number 2 spot and is competing for the number one.

The last big name player to come through Minnesota was Thomas Vanek. Labled floater and lazy. It took a bit to adjust to the NCAA, AHL and now the NHL. But most comments i hear are going from this guy is invisable in his own zone to you know he aint all that bad. Thats the way it was at the U too. And he looked pretty bad his first few months of his freshman season. I see way more ability in Kessel than i do see in Vanek. And i like Vanek alot.

If this was the old NHL. I would say Johnson is the guy. But in the new NHL and with rules and crack downs. My favorite still pic so far this year is one with only Gaborik and 5 Edmonton guys in the same area. Gaborik scored on the play. Seemed like all the EDM guys were scared to get a penalty. Once Kessel gets a little strength and can turn the corner just enough on a D man. The move may not score but will draw penalties.

 

[MN_Gopher]

I said that to my wife (who is a huge hockey fan) the other night.

Daigle was a guy who had a lot of speed in junior hockey, and could completely rely on this speed to create scoring chances. Speed was all he needed to score in junior, and using only speed to create scoring chances became a habit for him. However, when he entered the NHL, almost every player had speed, and they took away the huge (only) advantage that Daigle had mostly used to rack up so many points in junior. When he couldn't rely solely on his speed anymore, Daigle became neutered. He couldn't adjust, couldn't create chances, and fizzled out.

Kessel has seemed the same way playing against faster, stronger, and more defensive teams. If you can skate with Kessel, and play physical with him, he becomes invisible.

But I will hold my complete judgement on whether or not Kessel is another Daigle until after I see Kessel play a few NHL seasons.

Thas why i am glad he did not go major junior. And end up like Daigle or a PM Bouchard. Can score in one league but the jump to the NHL is a very big one. In the NCAA he has been planted more than once. And is seeing some tough competition. But one thing either good or bad. He does not turn invisable with contact. Saw him try to take a guy 1:1 and get dropped. Next oppurtunity he tried it again and was dropped. If anything he is more hard headed than shy when it comes to contact.

Every game i have seen. Teams have tried to get physical with him. People just like to point that games where he does not look and and say it was a physical game. Trust me any Minnesota- UMD, SCCC, MSU, NoDak, DEN, MI amd MICH ST game will be physical. And he was not shut out in all those games.

 

[Form and Substance]

He's 19 in 9 months...

I totally like how you understated the 9 months part which as you know is 3/4 of a year.

 

[fatsunny]

EJ is just too good at this point with huge potential to carry teams defensively for Kessel to get drafted ahead of him. He's big, tough, skilled and has great character. Kessel is good, but imo, has too many question marks for a team to take him ahead of EJ.

Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if Kessel dropped to 3rd or 4th. That is no knock on him either. To be drafted in the top 10 is an honor. But NHL teams will be ruthless when it comes to evaluating these guys and will likely take the best "overall" prospects. That could include Toews and Mueller ahead of Kessel.

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

I totally like how you understated the 9 months part which as you know is 3/4 of a year.

The guy said Kessel is 17, i'm just pointing out that he turns 19 - legal drinking age - this year.

 

[borro]

I would like to see Pittsburgh draft Kessel.

Crosby, Malkin, Kessel....What a show that would be!

Crosby and Malkin feeding passes to Kessel on the PP would be a sight to behold.

If Pittsburgh drafts another forward with Erik Johnson on the table the whole organization should be taken behind the woodshed and shot! This team needs decent defense bad. A #1 d-man should not be ignored. How many years are they going to compete for the #1 pick before they learn you have to play defense?

 

[borro]

I really do not care as both Johnson and Kessel will be gophers next year. But people fell in love with Kessel after the Sweden game. All his potential. Same thing is happeneing with Johnson.

I have to insert a caveat here. If the Caps draft Kessel, he may be brought up to play with Ovechkin next year. Your generalization that Johnson and Kessel will be Gophers next year has a large possibility of being wrong. Be careful to consider who drafts these guys. If the Pens draft Johnson he is their best dman right off. Top 5 picks should be able to compete for a roster spot their first year, imho.

 

[borro]

Hmmm, i really can't see Johnson getting ahead of Kessel...i'm thinking it'll go something like:

1) Kessel
2) Johnson
3) Toews
4) Staal
5) Mueller
6) Joensuu

A few comments here. First let me insert my "list".
1) Johnson (Going w/ISS rating)
2) Kessel
3) Staal
4) Toews
5) Little
6) Frolik/Joenesuu/Sheppard/Meuller/Okposo

I see Kessel/Staal as a Bobby Carpenter/Ron Francis choice. Sure Carpenter had 50 goals starting out. Ron Francis had the more complete game and was still an offensive threat. When he slows down or people study his moves, he still has his size.

Joenesuu-
This guy size wise seems to be made for the NHL. If he is dropping he may be the next Latendresse(drops but performs better than expected.) Can someone who has a grip on this guy compare him to Joe Thornton at this point in Thornton career?

Mueller-
Is he a top player or in that 5-10 range or later?

Sheppard-
Same question as Meuller

Others-
Anyone know how far Vasyunov(sp?) has fallen? Anyone else to keep an eye on for top 10? Any goalers in Top10?

 

[#66]

I said that to my wife (who is a huge hockey fan) the other night.

Daigle was a guy who had a lot of speed in junior hockey, and could completely rely on this speed to create scoring chances. Speed was all he needed to score in junior, and using only speed to create scoring chances became a habit for him. However, when he entered the NHL, almost every player had speed, and they took away the huge (only) advantage that Daigle had mostly used to rack up so many points in junior. When he couldn't rely solely on his speed anymore, Daigle became neutered. He couldn't adjust, couldn't create chances, and fizzled out.

Kessel has seemed the same way playing against faster, stronger, and more defensive teams. If you can skate with Kessel, and play physical with him, he becomes invisible.

But I will hold my complete judgement on whether or not Kessel is another Daigle until after I see Kessel play a few NHL seasons.

I've thought of Daigle too a few times but I think that if he doesn't pan out he'll be more like Afinagenov. Kessel has better hand skills and mobility than Daigle did but I don't think that Kessel would look as good in a nurses uniform.

 

[#66]

Joensuu will NOT go #6. He's having a really medicore year and was, on all accounts, just plain not good at the WJCs.

I really wish that the Finn posters would comment on him. Its hard to judge a kid that looks so raw by only watching a few games. He has a great frame and seems to have good sense. Plus being a Finn, a person has to think that his work ethic is good.

 

[MN_Gopher]

I have to insert a caveat here. If the Caps draft Kessel, he may be brought up to play with Ovechkin next year. Your generalization that Johnson and Kessel will be Gophers next year has a large possibility of being wrong. Be careful to consider who drafts these guys. If the Pens draft Johnson he is their best dman right off. Top 5 picks should be able to compete for a roster spot their first year, imho.

I think that top 5 guys should be able to compete. And most can. But look at history. Heatley, J. Johnson, Vanek, Skille, Lee, Whitney, Nystrom all NCAA guys that went top 10 and all stayed at least one year after they were drafted.

 

[AgentNaslund*]

like cmon guys. Ok, your guys are bashing the crap outa Kessel, like give it rest??? I dont even wanna imagine what will happen when he plays in the NHL. You guys are gonna kick the crap outa him, like you losers are doing to Crosby. NO matter how good he plays.

Alexander Daigle??? cmon man, its pretty obvious hes not gonna be an Alexander Daigle. Gimme a ****ing break here. Do you guys know how to watch hockey? You guys cant see, that Kessel is gonna be a Kovalchuk type of offensive player? geeze guys. Erik Johnson will probably be the ranked number 1, but chances are, Kessel will probably end up being number 1 again. An Alexander Daigle type of hype/prospect will probably not happen again. Infact, hes the only case of being that bad of a bust.

 

[sonnytheman]

I'm not sure how good Kessel will be, but I'm almost certain that we WON'T be bad, or a bust, at all. He's got amazing speed and is very good with the puck at those high speeds, unlike a lot of fast players.

Also, you can't forget his shot, he's got an absolutely lethal shot. Even if he doesn't become the gamebreaker he was touted to be, his speed/shot combo alone will make him a regular 30-40 goal scorer in the NHL.

 

[God Bless Canada]

I said that to my wife (who is a huge hockey fan) the other night.

Daigle was a guy who had a lot of speed in junior hockey, and could completely rely on this speed to create scoring chances. Speed was all he needed to score in junior, and using only speed to create scoring chances became a habit for him. However, when he entered the NHL, almost every player had speed, and they took away the huge (only) advantage that Daigle had mostly used to rack up so many points in junior. When he couldn't rely solely on his speed anymore, Daigle became neutered. He couldn't adjust, couldn't create chances, and fizzled out.

Kessel has seemed the same way playing against faster, stronger, and more defensive teams. If you can skate with Kessel, and play physical with him, he becomes invisible.

But I will hold my complete judgement on whether or not Kessel is another Daigle until after I see Kessel play a few NHL seasons.

No comparison to Daigle. Daigle had phenomenal skating, but he was essentially a one-tool player who never worked to hone his other abilities. He used that skating to a fast start in the NHL (was rookie of the month in October of 1993), but opponents quickly figured him out. Kessel is stronger, smarter and owns a better shot.

A lot of what we're saying about Kessel now is what we were saying about Legwand in 1998. (Good size, great skating, big shot, natural goal scorer who plays centre. Remember, Legwand was ranked No. 2 in 1998, No. 1 by some, after scoring 54 goals in 59 games in the OHL). The only difference is, and it is a big difference, Kessel has been scrutinized for over a year, while Legwand essentially came out of nowhere.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

like cmon guys. Ok, your guys are bashing the crap outa Kessel, like give it rest??? I dont even wanna imagine what will happen when he plays in the NHL. You guys are gonna kick the crap outa him, like you losers are doing to Crosby. NO matter how good he plays.

Alexander Daigle??? cmon man, its pretty obvious hes not gonna be an Alexander Daigle. Gimme a ****ing break here. Do you guys know how to watch hockey? You guys cant see, that Kessel is gonna be a Kovalchuk type of offensive player? geeze guys. Erik Johnson will probably be the ranked number 1, but chances are, Kessel will probably end up being number 1 again. An Alexander Daigle type of hype/prospect will probably not happen again. Infact, hes the only case of being that bad of a bust.

Good post.

 

[borro]

I think that top 5 guys should be able to compete. And most can. But look at history. Heatley, J. Johnson, Vanek, Skille, Lee, Whitney, Nystrom all NCAA guys that went top 10 and all stayed at least one year after they were drafted.

You never have a guarantee. For a team like the Caps, they have no options that are good enough to play with AO. AO made the jump as did Crosby and others have too. 5-10 I would say will take a year. 1-5 should compete for a roster spot imho.

 

[parisefan55]

I really wish that the Finn posters would comment on him. Its hard to judge a kid that looks so raw by only watching a few games. He has a great frame and seems to have good sense. Plus being a Finn, a person has to think that his work ethic is good.

Jesse Joenssu finished up the tournament with 2g 2a for 4 pts. His #1 strength is his size. He is a horse, not shy of pyysical play at all. He started to play better towards the end of the tournament and had 2g in the Bronze Medal game. Don't be surprised to see a team that needs a big physical winger in the Top 8-12 range pick this guys up. No matter what you will still see him in the first 20 picks of the draft.

 

[TheFlowerist]

remember 1996, well i guess, this year's draft will be the 10 year commemoration of the 90's great one.
it's gonna be exciting, watching all these propsects develop

let's play a matching game. so who's who.

1 Chris Phillips D
2 Andrei Zyuzin D
3 J.P. Dumont R
4 Alexandre Volchkov R
5 Richard Jackman D
6 Boyd Devereaux C
7 Erik Rasmussen C
8 Johnathan Aitken D
9 Ruslan Salei D
10 Lance Ward D
11 Dan Focht D
12 Josh Holden C
13 Derek Morris D
14 Marty Reasoner C
15 Dainius Zubrus R
16 Mario Larocque D
17 Jaroslav Svejkovsky L
18 Matt Higgins C
19 Matthieu Descoteaux D
20 Marcus Nilson R
21 Marco Sturm C
22 Jeff Brown D
23 Craig Hillier G
24 Daniel Briere C
25 Peter Ratchuk D
26 Jesse Wallin D

 

[#66]

Jesse Joenssu finished up the tournament with 2g 2a for 4 pts. His #1 strength is his size. He is a horse, not shy of pyysical play at all. He started to play better towards the end of the tournament and had 2g in the Bronze Medal game. Don't be surprised to see a team that needs a big physical winger in the Top 8-12 range pick this guys up. No matter what you will still see him in the first 20 picks of the draft.

Thanks. How high end are his hand skills? Does he have Bertuzzi like upside?

 

[shakes]

I would like to see Pittsburgh draft Kessel.

Crosby, Malkin, Kessel....What a show that would be!

Crosby and Malkin feeding passes to Kessel on the PP would be a sight to behold.

Yes that is exactly what Pittsburgh needs, someone else not to play defence.

 

[Nash]

like cmon guys. Ok, your guys are bashing the crap outa Kessel, like give it rest??? I dont even wanna imagine what will happen when he plays in the NHL. You guys are gonna kick the crap outa him, like you losers are doing to Crosby. NO matter how good he plays.

Alexander Daigle??? cmon man, its pretty obvious hes not gonna be an Alexander Daigle. Gimme a ****ing break here. Do you guys know how to watch hockey? You guys cant see, that Kessel is gonna be a Kovalchuk type of offensive player? geeze guys. Erik Johnson will probably be the ranked number 1, but chances are, Kessel will probably end up being number 1 again. An Alexander Daigle type of hype/prospect will probably not happen again. Infact, hes the only case of being that bad of a bust.

I've never slammed Crosby before. I think what he is doing as an 18 year old is simply amazing. His only glaring weakness right now is faceoffs and most 18 year olds aren't that great at those vs seasoned pros. Overall, he will be an outstanding player in a few years as he matures and will likely be at or near the top of the league.

Wow, if you see Kovalchuk in Kessel, you've got some blinders on there. Kovalchuk is an amazing, dynamic, PROVEN offensive force. Kessel's speed is the only comparable to Kovalchuk. His shot is not yet in IK's league. Neither is his skill set. Kovalchuk has way more hockey sense and is also a very strong player. IK is 6'2/235 while PK is 6'0/190. He doesn't look like he has the frame to be IK's size.

I know how to watch hockey and assess players. If you think that Daigle is the only recent bust at number 1 in recent years, maybe you don't. To think that scouting has somehow evolved so well that it is now impossible to have another bust like that is just naive. Does the name Patrick Stefan ring a bell for you? Yes, injuries played a part in his lack of impact, but how about another recent #2 who was picked by many as a challenger to Lecavalier? David Legwand. Neither DL or PS has ever had a 20G/50P season like Daigle has done 3 times. This season, he has more points then either of those guys as well.

 

[Nash]

No comparison to Daigle. Daigle had phenomenal skating, but he was essentially a one-tool player who never worked to hone his other abilities. He used that skating to a fast start in the NHL (was rookie of the month in October of 1993), but opponents quickly figured him out. Kessel is stronger, smarter and owns a better shot.

A lot of what we're saying about Kessel now is what we were saying about Legwand in 1998. (Good size, great skating, big shot, natural goal scorer who plays centre. Remember, Legwand was ranked No. 2 in 1998, No. 1 by some, after scoring 54 goals in 59 games in the OHL). The only difference is, and it is a big difference, Kessel has been scrutinized for over a year, while Legwand essentially came out of nowhere.

Daigle and Kessel both have top end speed. Kessel has a better shot. I would hope that Kessel has more drive to improve. However, I think Kessel will be just as easy to figure out as Daigle was. His shot and speed will help him become a top 2 line player, but his one move will not. Daigle is 6'0/204 and Kessel is 6'0/190. Better shot ... yes ... stronger ... not really ... smarter ... I haven't seen it.

Legwand is a good comparison as well.