John Tortorella Named (Part Time) Head Coach Discussion

Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
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Well, Hextall, Pryor, Clarke, Barber, Holmgren and Lombardi are history.

Jones I have doubts about, I have no problem with Briere (who has little real connection with the above other than being signed by Holmgren and then hired and ending up in Maine, far from the Flyer bois. Torts has no connection with the Flyers "brain trust," nor does he have a similar approach to hockey, other than on a superficial level that seems to fool a lot of people here.

Torts' style of play is more like Carolina, he likes speed, has no problem with undersized skill players, etc.

Torts isn't a players coach, but some of that I think reflects less a "Dino approach" (Gallant and Cassidy and AV are better matches), than a NFL rebuild approach - even someone as "nice" as Sirianni quickly weeds out players who don't fit. A lot of NHL teams waste time trying to get young players to buy in, and only give up after years of cajoling and coddling - Torts pushes everyone to "subtract" the ones that don't fit so he can focus on the "keepers." That comes out harsh in the hockey world but is how you push a rebuild forward.


Clarke, Barber, Holmgren, and Lombardi are right there, not history, but the present. While Hilferty and the PR machine aggressively get the fanbase used to the idea that they're not going anywhere by sucking off the past every time they do anything. There is a zero percent chance that Clarke at minimum is not involved, because he will make himself a massive problem if he isn't catered to. We'd be hearing media "leaks" already.

Tort's style of play is absolutely nothing like Carolina. Carolina has offensive plans. Tortorella has the opposite. He has offensive limitations and nothing else.

Tortorella's approach has nothing to do with some mastermind approach to a secret rebuild. Shave this with Occam's Razor. He's just an asshole. There's a reason this defective organization is the only team to want him.
 
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Embiid

On early summer vacay
May 27, 2010
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John "Retort"...is every bit a byproduct of the neolithic advisors that still retain influence because they are considered Titans. Don't think for one minute that they didn't bring in this unapologetic asshole for punitive reasons (i.e. players need to shape up or ship out). That was Holmgren's MO when he was GM and when he said they wouldn't keep firing coaches bc players needed to be more accountable. While that may be true in a general sense...your org did a shitty job drafting, developing and getting the right FA's to support the talent you did have and would run into the ground. That mentality I believe has carried over for the last decade now because you still have these failures as advisors corrupting and inhibiting a cultural revolution that is required. So sick of this backward organization...
 

Beef Invictus

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John "Retort"...is every bit a byproduct of the neolithic advisors that still retain influence because they are considered Titans. Don't think for one minute that they didn't bring in this unapologetic asshole for punitive reasons (i.e. players need to shape up or ship out). That was Holmgren's MO when he was GM and when he said they wouldn't keep firing coaches bc players needed to be more accountable. While that may be true in a general sense...your org did a shitty job drafting, developing and getting the right FA's to support the talent you did have and would run into the ground. That mentality I believe has carried over for the last decade now because you still have these failures as advisors corrupting and inhibiting a cultural revolution that is required. So sick of this backward organization...

Clarke ran to tell media that was exactly what Tortorella was meant to bring. He was giddy about it. He was very much in favor of it.
 

deadhead

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Feb 26, 2014
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John "Retort"...is every bit a byproduct of the neolithic advisors that still retain influence because they are considered Titans. Don't think for one minute that they didn't bring in this unapologetic asshole for punitive reasons (i.e. players need to shape up or ship out). That was Holmgren's MO when he was GM and when he said they wouldn't keep firing coaches bc players needed to be more accountable. While that may be true in a general sense...your org did a shitty job drafting, developing and getting the right FA's to support the talent you did have and would run into the ground. That mentality I believe has carried over for the last decade now because you still have these failures as advisors corrupting and inhibiting a cultural revolution that is required. So sick of this backward organization...
Sullivan, Brind'Amour are known for holding their players accountable.

Culture isn't enough, but when you bring in talented players to organizations where they're not held accountable (see Chicago since Q departed, for example) you end up with a sloppy team that lacks resilience.

What most top teams have in common are clubhouses with internal leadership, if a HC has to push a team constantly, eventually they tune him out (AV).
The way you get that kind of clubhouse is to subtract the players who lack competitive fire or a first rate work ethic.
The way you identify those players is to initially push your team, see who responds and who doesn't.

I think the reason Torts gets these negative reviews around the league from players who haven't played for him is his public persona, but Sullivan cleared out a lot of players (with the help of Rutherford) when he took over in Pittsburgh, same with Brind'Amour in Carolina. They're just quieter about it, but they got rid of the players who didn't buy in. And I suspect you'd find the same on some other winning teams.

Frost is a good example, Torts hasn't asked him to play physical or compete for a Selke, he just asks him to be responsible defensively and not go MIA for long periods. He got on Tippett for letting his scoring slumps affect the rest of his game. He's pushing York to be more assertive on offense, it's not enough to be quietly effective, he wants York to take a leadership role on the ice and drive play. And so on.

Hayes will go somewhere like Columbus and put up points for a team that won't push him to work hard on defense, but that wasn't going to fly with Torts.
If Sanheim can't handle pressure from Torts to raise his game commiserate with his contract, could you trust him to handle playoff pressure? Top players are under the spotlight in the playoffs.
 
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Curufinwe

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Feb 28, 2013
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Torts isn't going to blow you, no matter how much fan fiction you write about him.

Sanheim already showed he could handle playoff pressure three years ago, averaging 22:37 & carrying a second pairing with a guy who is basically out of the league now. Torts being a childish :eek::eek::eek::eek: towards him hasn't got anything to do with Sanheim playing well in the playoffs.

 
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deadhead

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Feb 26, 2014
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"Frost is a good example, Torts hasn't asked him to play physical or compete for a Selke, he just asks him to be responsible defensively and not go MIA for long periods."

...by PUBLICALLY CALLING HIM A TOILET SEAT.
Oh, come off it. It was a silly metaphor, but the point was exactly what I said, Frost's game was up and down, Torts wanted more consistency from him.
If I'm a player, I'm laughing at that, now if he compared me to a turd in the toilet . . .
 

Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
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Oh, come off it. It was a silly metaphor, but the point was exactly what I said, Frost's game was up and down, Torts wanted more consistency from him.
If I'm a player, I'm laughing at that, now if he compared me to a turd in the toilet . . .
Yeah, Frost should just laugh and respect the coach who called him a toilet seat and healthy scratched him one time, in his hometown game.

Dumb shit like that is how you lose players instead of them willing to go thru a wall for you.
 

Beef Invictus

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Dec 21, 2009
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Yeah, Frost should just laugh and respect the coach who called him a toilet seat and healthy scratched him one time, in his hometown game.

Dumb shit like that is how you lose players instead of them willing to go thru a wall for you.

Reports were that players were disgruntled because of it. The players revolting in NY is why he get canned there.

"I think players love being abused by Tortorella, it's a badge of honor"
 
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Rebels57

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Sep 28, 2014
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There has never and there probably never will be a more overrated coach in NHL history.


This blowhard isn't even Top 100 in Winning % for either Regular Season OR the Playoffs. :laugh::laugh::laugh:

That one Stanley Cup win 19 years ago though!!
 
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freakydallas13

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Yeah, Frost should just laugh and respect the coach who called him a toilet seat and healthy scratched him one time, in his hometown game.

Dumb shit like that is how you lose players instead of them willing to go thru a wall for you.
You're literally arguing with someone who thinks it's a good thing Torts alienates players*.

*As long as those players aren't Couts. Alienating every player on the team but Coots is perfectly acceptable.
 
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deadhead

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Funny, for a guy who alienates players, he has a lot of former players who sing his praises.

Like a lot of tough HCs in any sport who also care about their players as people, he alienates a few who don't like to be pushed, but most, once they realize his pushing makes them better players (and extends their careers and their lifetime earnings).

I remember Andy Reid having Hegamin push a sled in TC b/c he showed up out of shape, he was never a p***ycat as a HC.
 

freakydallas13

Registered User
Jan 30, 2007
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"Actually, it's fine Torts alienates players, because anecdotally some former players like him and there is literally no other way to motivate players that doesn't include alienating them"

Q3k1i9l_d~2.jpg
 

renberg

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Here is a site from when Tortorella was coaching the Rags that gets at the systems that he used while coaching them. It seems to be what he believes in and hasn't modified it very much during his coaching career.
 

Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
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Yeah, his desire to use offense as basically defense in another zone has been a thing he's verbalized since he was in NY, I was pointing out that philosophy last summer. Actual production is secondary to the grinding away and holding the other team in their end. If they score on the rush, fine, but after that it's grindtime. And since he seems to have really grown to dislike horizontal passing in the offensive zone, good luck with that.
 

Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
Jun 2, 2013
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A pretty easy way to tell if a coach is being a c*** is to imagine the reaction if a player said the same thing to the media about the coach.

Torts would have a full meltdown. He’s the kind of hypocritical prick who lectures people on respect and then goes out of his way to be insulting to everyone “below” him.
 
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