Player Discussion John Carlson - Vol. 1

[MrGone]

We get it bro, you wanted Green gone for years and were pissed off that they let him walk for free. Just get over it.

The case with Carlson is completely different and he deserves the money he's going to get. Trading him for futures and relying on a cheap FA acquisition makes this team so much worse. Apparently you're one of the few who can't understand that?

What I don't understand why everyone wants to keep to status quo?

Backstrom + Ovechkin + Kuznetsov + Carlson + Holtby = Not A Cup. They have not even been close.

And you want to keep hurting the team over all to hold this group together.

 

[ovikovy817]

What I don't understand why everyone wants to keep to status quo?

Backstrom + Ovechkin + Kuznetsov + Carlson + Holtby = Not A Cup. They have not even been close.

And you want to keep hurting the team over all to hold this group together.

Last year, they were one game away, from the Stanley Cup Final (if not the Stanley Cup)
ps: yes, you're right, I don't consider Ottawa as a huge obstacle.

 

[Langway]

What I don't understand why everyone wants to keep to status quo?

Backstrom + Ovechkin + Kuznetsov + Carlson + Holtby = Not A Cup. They have not even been close.

And you want to keep hurting the team over all to hold this group together.

I would guess that most are resigned that this is all ownership has as a plan and anything else would end up being inferior anyway so it doesn't really matter. Enjoy!

 

[MrGone]

Last year, they were one game away, from the Stanley Cup Final (if not the Stanley Cup)
ps: yes, you're right, I don't consider Ottawa as a huge obstacle.

You really cant consider it anything seeing none of them have ever been there. They know nothing about the ECF. As for Ottawa it may not have been as easy as you make it seem. You got to see how well they play against high effort teams last night.

 

[hb12xchamps]

What I don't understand why everyone wants to keep to status quo?

Backstrom + Ovechkin + Kuznetsov + Carlson + Holtby = Not A Cup. They have not even been close.

And you want to keep hurting the team over all to hold this group together.

Now your switching the argument. This thread has went from being about Carlson into another countless and stupid debate about the core of the team and their playoff success.

Carlson has good playoff numbers. He shouldn't be the one we are getting pissed off at over the failures of a core. That discussion should have happened when Kuznetsov signed that huge deal after shitting the bed with a whopping 2 points in 15-16 versus the Pens. Or we should be pissed at Holtby for completely forgetting how to stop a puck and make a timely save.

 

[MrGone]

So you are saying the core will better with Carlson at 7.5 million . Then it is now with him at 3.9 million? If that is not what you are saying. Talking about this teams core is exactly what we should and are talking about. Paying market value to raise the cost of a core that has never been close.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

What I don't understand why everyone wants to keep to status quo?

Backstrom + Ovechkin + Kuznetsov + Carlson + Holtby = Not A Cup. They have not even been close.

And you want to keep hurting the team over all to hold this group together.

Do you realize that things could be 10 times worse than they are now?

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

Do you realize that things could be 10 times worse than they are now?

It's always sad and interesting to me that people take the success of this team for granted. Does it suck they haven't won a Cup? Yes. Yes it does. Enormously. I hope they can get over the hump. They're a good team. They lost tons of contributors from B2B Prez Trophies and are still 4th in the League half way through.

The Oilers drafted 1OA more times than I can count this decade and recently drafted the best prospect since Crosby. They're closer to another lottery pick than they are to making the playoffs. It's really easy to toil in obscurity in hockey. It's hard to maintain a winning product.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

It's always sad and interesting to me that people take the success of this team for granted. Does it suck they haven't won a Cup? Yes. Yes it does. Enormously. I hope they can get over the hump. They're a good team. They lost tons of contributors from B2B Prez Trophies and are still 4th in the League half way through.

The Oilers drafted 1OA more times than I can count this decade and recently drafted the best prospect since Crosby. They're closer to another lottery pick than they are to making the playoffs. It's really easy to toil in obscurity in hockey. It's hard to maintain a winning product.

We're easily the most succesful hockey team that hasn't won the Cup this decade. We're the 5th most successful after the Penguins, Blackhawks, Kings and Bruins. We're consistently at the top of the league and we have an entertaining/winning product from October to April.

We're going to be a sad bunch when Ovechkin leaves or retires and we become a mediocre team again.

 

[maacoshark]

What I don't understand why everyone wants to keep to status quo?

Backstrom + Ovechkin + Kuznetsov + Carlson + Holtby = Not A Cup. They have not even been close.

And you want to keep hurting the team over all to hold this group together.

If you start getting rid of core players you may as well get rid of the entire core and start from scratch. Im curious why you didnt include Oshie in your list of players.

 

[maacoshark]

We're easily the most succesful hockey team that hasn't won the Cup this decade. We're the 5th most successful after the Penguins, Blackhawks, Kings and Bruins. We're consistently at the top of the league and we have an entertaining/winning product from October to April.

We're going to be a sad bunch when Ovechkin leaves or retires and we become a mediocre team again.

When Ovi is gone we will likely have to change the system but that doesn't necessarily mean we will be a mediocre team. You may remember some of the early Caps playoff teams. One of those seasons we finished 3rd overall behind only the Flyers and the powerhouse Oilers. We had a couple of good offensive players but that team was one of the few good defensive teams of that era. We even won a Jennings trophy with mediocre goaltenders back then. I believe our goalies at the time were Al Jensen and Pat Riggin.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

When Ovi is gone we will likely have to change the system but that doesn't necessarily mean we will be a mediocre team. You may remember some of the early Caps playoff teams. One of those seasons we finished 3rd overall behind only the Flyers and the powerhouse Oilers. We had a couple of good offensive players but that team was one of the few good defensive teams of that era. We even won a Jennings trophy with mediocre goaltenders back then. I believe our goalies at the time were Al Jensen and Pat Riggin.

The transition from the offense-first Capitals under Ovechkin to a defense-first, conservative Capitals team will take a lot of time. We really don't have the personnel to play in any other way.

All the core pieces surrounding Ovechkin are biased towards offense, and we don't have much coming up in the prospect pipeline. We're going to suck for a while after Ovechkin, Backstrom and the others leave.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

This is the rub I have with Mr Gone and those advocating selling off guys like Carlson and Holtby....as Kuzy said it could be MUCH worse and Mr Gone is advocating a core trade without a compelling reason, other than "it hasn't worked so far". I'm not married to the core group of players...I don't think anyone would mind a trade of someone big, but it has to make sense. It can't cripple your team. Show me a hockey trade that makes sense to trade one of the core for and I'm on board if they poop the bed again. I would have explored my options seriously after the last flame out.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

This is the rub I have with Mr Gone and those advocating selling off guys like Carlson and Holtby....as Kuzy said it could be MUCH worse and Mr Gone is advocating a core trade without a compelling reason, other than "it hasn't worked so far". I'm not married to the core group of players...I don't think anyone would mind a trade of someone big, but it has to make sense. It can't cripple your team. Show me a hockey trade that makes sense to trade one of the core for and I'm on board if they poop the bed again. I would have explored my options seriously after the last flame out.

I'll applaud GMBM and the Caps management for understanding this the second we lost in the playoffs last year. I remember, the entire Caps nation was in panic mode and we wanted them to blow up the team. When everyone (including me and many people here) grabbed their pitchfork in May/June and were calling for the team to move on from Ovechkin and his supporting cast, the management kept its cool and realized that we could still be a playoff team again.

They understood right away that the best course of action was to simply reload with cheaper depth by promoting from within and hoping for the best.

Trading Carlson and Holtby for no player in particular is actively sabotaging the team. I don't want us to become the next Oilers or Sabres.

 

[maacoshark]

The transition from the offense-first Capitals under Ovechkin to a defense-first, conservative Capitals team will take a lot of time. We really don't have the personnel to play in any other way.

All the core pieces surrounding Ovechkin are biased towards offense, and we don't have much coming up in the prospect pipeline. We're going to suck for a while after Ovechkin, Backstrom and the others leave.

If we dont start adding some pieces between now and the time we start losing our key players then yup we might suck for awhile.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

If we dont start adding some pieces between now and the time we start losing our key players then yup we might suck for awhile.

From this point onwards, we need to draft for the long term. I think we're already doing a little bit of that by drafting guys like Lucas Johansen and Jonas Siegenthaler, but we're going to have to do the same thing upfront. Backstrom's contract expires in 2 years and Ovechkin's contract expires in 3 years. Who knows if these two will want to come back? Backstrom might decide to move on and try to win the Cup somewhere else. Same thing with Ovechkin, he might even decide to retire from the NHL and move back to Russia to end his career in the KHL.

I doubt we'll find two players as good as Ovechkin and Backstrom in the next 5, 10 or even 20 years, but we need some players with top 6 potential in case they decide to leave.

 

[MrGone]

If you start getting rid of core players you may as well get rid of the entire core and start from scratch. Im curious why you didnt include Oshie in your list of players.

Love the guy and hate the contract. Oshie is core moving forward but with his short time here I dont blame much of the chronic failure that haunts this group on him. His time will come as his game will not age well. And that contract will become a disaster.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

If we dont start adding some pieces between now and the time we start losing our key players then yup we might suck for awhile.

In my book they call that stop giving away draft picks and start drafting and developing better. Kuzy is likely the future star of this team, but we need some young rough gems to turn into diamonds.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Love the guy and hate the contract. Oshie is core moving forward but with his short time here I dont blame much of the chronic failure that haunts this group on him. His time will come as his game will not age well. And that contract will become a disaster.

At 5.75 per in 4 years.....that’s maybe a higher middle price roster spot by then. There are a lot of contract disasters in the NHL. This is unlikely to be one of them in 4-5 years IMO.

 

[MrGone]

Me concerned for Oshie him physically breaking down. He's already not the best skater. And with his physical style of play it may not age well.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

That seems to be a fear among a small section of Caps fans and former Brooks Laich supporters.

Let’s let it play out before we start sweating the great unknown about a player who has been more than worth it since he put on a Caps jersey. Worst case, his contract is well structured for a buyout with 3 years left.

PS - sign Carlson.

 

[maacoshark]

That seems to be a fear among a small section of Caps fans and former Brooks Laich supporters.

Let’s let it play out before we start sweating the great unknown about a player who has been more than worth it since he put on a Caps jersey. Worst case, his contract is well structured for a buyout with 3 years left.

PS - sign Carlson.

Im a bit unsure about the Oshie contract myself. I think 8 years is way too long. I'm not happy that we resign the guy and now he is playing his worst hockey since he has been here.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

It’s been what 10 games post concussion? Injuries happen. Pretty sure we’re all unsure.

 

[Slateman]

Last year, they were one game away, from the Stanley Cup Final (if not the Stanley Cup)
ps: yes, you're right, I don't consider Ottawa as a huge obstacle.

With the exception of Kuzy, they've been "one game away" for several years now.

 

[CREW99AW]

Any idea of what salary Carlson and his reps are looking for on his next contract?