Player Discussion John Carlson - Vol. 1

[OVrocks]

Carlson is going to demand s major raise, and to be honest, he’s not great defensively. I think we may be better off letting him go and look for cheaper FA or trade options.

 

[maacoshark]

Carlson is going to demand s major raise, and to be honest, he’s not great defensively. I think we may be better off letting him go and look for cheaper FA or trade options.

I disagree. There is no FA close to Carlson available. If we go the trade route we will not only be losing Carlson but we will be losing the players involved in the deal. Carlson is not a shutdown dman but he isn't a terrible defensive player either. He is better defensively than most of the other top scoring dmen.

 

[MrGone]

I disagree. There is no FA close to Carlson available. If we go the trade route we will not only be losing Carlson but we will be losing the players involved in the deal. Carlson is not a shutdown dman but he isn't a terrible defensive player either. He is better defensively than most of the other top scoring dmen.

Signing the wrong guy because he is the only guy fits perfect around here. We can give him 8x7.5. Then we can talk about the only thing the team was missing is a true shout down #1 defender for the next eight years. Pulse one for the status quo.

Capitals Economics 101: How to get less for your money. Keep giving raises as the teams talent level goes down.

 

[maacoshark]

Signing the wrong guy because he is the only guy fits perfect around here. We can give him 8x7.5. Then we can talk about the only thing the team was missing is a true shout down #1 defender for the next eight years. Pulse one for the status quo.

Capitals Economics 101: How to get less for your money. Keep giving raises as the teams talent level goes down.

You do realize that there are very few shutdown dmen in the league right now and they are very hard to come by.

 

[hb12xchamps]

Signing the wrong guy because he is the only guy fits perfect around here. We can give him 8x7.5. Then we can talk about the only thing the team was missing is a true shout down #1 defender for the next eight years. Pulse one for the status quo.

Capitals Economics 101: How to get less for your money. Keep giving raises as the teams talent level goes down.

What exactly do you propose then? Getting true value for him in a trade hinges on the fact that he comes with an extension in place or an indication that he would sign an extension with whatever team we trade him to.

John Carlson type players don't grow on trees and the closest thing we have to him is LuJo, who's a couple of years away to playing at the level Carlson is now and is a LD. Our RD prospect pool drops off after Bowey, who isn't lighting the world on fire at the NHL level. Replacing Carlson with a cheap FA is a major downgrade for this team

 

[Corby78]

When you consider Niski's injury and then offensive struggles, Carlson is the #1 two way defensemen we have. And we don't have a guy in the pipeline to replace him in the near future. Sign the man.

 

[txpd]

and to be honest, he’s not great defensively. I think we may be better off letting him go and look for cheaper FA or trade options.

1. Carlson has been playing shutdown defense pair most of the last 5 years. He is a primary PK defenseman. To call him not that great defensively sounds like you are talking about Mike Green and that is totally misplaced.

2. A UFA defenseman as productive as Carlson is going to cost as much as Carlson. Trading for a 25min, pp1 right shooting defenseman is going to be expensive too. That is, IF, there is even one available. Do you have any suggestions of players that are known or thought to be available that fits that description?

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

Signing the wrong guy because he is the only guy fits perfect around here. We can give him 8x7.5. Then we can talk about the only thing the team was missing is a true shout down #1 defender for the next eight years. Pulse one for the status quo.

Capitals Economics 101: How to get less for your money. Keep giving raises as the teams talent level goes down.

I am sure you'd be the first to complain about: 1. the return for Carlson, and 2. the Caps being a worse team next year without Carlson. You'd probably also find a way to bring it back to not trading Mike Green and Alex Semin.

 

[twabby]

Erik Karlsson might be available!

 

[maacoshark]

Erik Karlsson might be available!

We can't afford him.

 

[amjay13]

Carlson will be 28 when he hits the market. For most d-men he is now entering his prime. I don't see any way you can lose him and still expect to have any sort of shot at contending the next couple of seasons.

Last season may have been the Caps best shot at a Cup but it certainly wasn't their last shot. This core has probably 2-3 seasons left in it and Carlson is a huge piece of that. Moving Orpik or even having his contact expire after next year offsets a lot of the raise Carlson will be getting.

In short, I don't envision any scenario in which the Caps can contend without Carlson (given the lack of viable replacements available) nor do I anticipate they'll try.

 

[maacoshark]

1. Carlson has been playing shutdown defense pair most of the last 5 years. He is a primary PK defenseman. To call him not that great defensively sounds like you are talking about Mike Green and that is totally misplaced.

2. A UFA defenseman as productive as Carlson is going to cost as much as Carlson. Trading for a 25min, pp1 right shooting defenseman is going to be expensive too. That is, IF, there is even one available. Do you have any suggestions of players that are known or thought to be available that fits that description?

Ya what he said. Couldn't have said it better.

 

[traparatus]

1. Carlson has been playing shutdown defense pair most of the last 5 years. He is a primary PK defenseman. To call him not that great defensively sounds like you are talking about Mike Green and that is totally misplaced.

2. A UFA defenseman as productive as Carlson is going to cost as much as Carlson. Trading for a 25min, pp1 right shooting defenseman is going to be expensive too. That is, IF, there is even one available. Do you have any suggestions of players that are known or thought to be available that fits that description?

That's a question that team's scouting department has to answer.

Obviously, Bowey is the easiest answer but he is not there now and might never get there. There is no point looking in free agency as you might as well just re-sign Carlson. Somewhere in the league there is a 22-24 year old d-man with a little upside who can serve as a stop gap until one of our prospects develops.

What about Matt Benning in Edmonton? He is having a horrific season and his value must be at an all time low. I watched him a bit last year and he was impressive. It could be that he simply needs a fresh start. RFA next season and could be signed for peanuts.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

There’s a little genius in there somewhere in Mr Gone’s madness. We ARE chasing in the wrong direction (with little choice to keep on pursuing the postseason dance). The good franchises do that, but good franchises also draft well and make savvy trades to supplement those expensive roster players. Continuing the trend of paying big $ to older/aging players is expensive and honestly the product (their production and play) is typically a depreciating thing.

The thing is, when the option is to wreck your D corp with nothing but hopes, prayers and unready young D prospects, you don’t trade a Carlson for futures. Unless 1)he wants out, 2)the ask is outrageous, 3)you don’t consider him part of the core.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

There’s a little genius in there somewhere in Mr Gone’s madness. We ARE chasing in the wrong direction (with little choice to keep on pursuing the postseason dance). The good franchises do that, but good franchises also draft well and make savvy trades to supplement those expensive roster players. Continuing the trend of paying big $ to older/aging players is expensive and honestly the product (their production and play) is typically a depreciating thing.

The thing is, when the option is to wreck your D corp with nothing but hopes, prayers and unready young D prospects, you don’t trade a Carlson for futures. Unless 1)he wants out, 2)the ask is outrageous, 3)you don’t consider him part of the core.

You seem to forget that the franchise is in a difficult position for the future. We're not good enough to win the Cup right now and we're not ready for the post-Ovechkin era yet.

The only thing that makes sense right now is to try to remain a playoff team until we can't.

 

[Raikkonen]

Sign the man. Deal with consequences later.

 

[The Instigator]

That's a question that team's scouting department has to answer.

Obviously, Bowey is the easiest answer but he is not there now and might never get there. There is no point looking in free agency as you might as well just re-sign Carlson. Somewhere in the league there is a 22-24 year old d-man with a little upside who can serve as a stop gap until one of our prospects develops.

What about Matt Benning in Edmonton? He is having a horrific season and his value must be at an all time low. I watched him a bit last year and he was impressive. It could be that he simply needs a fresh start. RFA next season and could be signed for peanuts.

I live in Alberta so I see a ton of Oilers games and regarding Matt Benning as anything other than a 6 or 7 guy is a stretch. Inferring that he’s a suitable stop-gap for Carlson is ridiculous.

Benning is a puck mover who is pretty average at puck-moving and there’s hardly anything else there. I would take a flier on him as maybe a Chorney replacement, not an every day defender to be relied upon. There’s a much higher chance that’s he’s just not good than needing of a scenery change.

 

[txpd]

That's a question that team's scouting department has to answer.

Obviously, Bowey is the easiest answer but he is not there now and might never get there. There is no point looking in free agency as you might as well just re-sign Carlson. Somewhere in the league there is a 22-24 year old d-man with a little upside who can serve as a stop gap until one of our prospects develops.

What about Matt Benning in Edmonton? He is having a horrific season and his value must be at an all time low. I watched him a bit last year and he was impressive. It could be that he simply needs a fresh start. RFA next season and could be signed for peanuts.

1. Good young defensemen that you would want to be the guy that plays top 4 minutes, pk and is THE guy passing Ovechkin the puck on the power play are rare. They are almost never traded. Teams don't trade their cost controlled top half of the lineup players.

2. His value must be at an all time low??? The guy that plays the top of the PP and the guy that is the primary Ovechkin set up man you want to replace with a dumpster dive?

As has been said. Carlson level defensemen are rare. They don't move often. If the Caps don't keep Carlson, there is no question that the team takes a significant step backward.

 

[traparatus]

I live in Alberta so I see a ton of Oilers games and regarding Matt Benning as anything other than a 6 or 7 guy is a stretch. Inferring that he’s a suitable stop-gap for Carlson is ridiculous.

Benning is a puck mover who is pretty average at puck-moving and there’s hardly anything else there. I would take a flier on him as maybe a Chorney replacement, not an every day defender to be relied upon. There’s a much higher chance that’s he’s just not good than needing of a scenery change.

I'm on the west coast and I also see plenty of Oilers' games. Benning sure looked like a reliable puck moving D-man to me last year. Looks bad this year but so does nearly every player on the Oilers.

We are heading down the path of Chicago Blackhawks. We are spending more and more money on an aging core group and WE HAVE NO CAP SPACE. The only way to resolve our cap crunch long term is to remove a high paid player. It could have been Oshie last year but we chose to retain him. We are spending cap dollars faster than we are freeing them up.

The only way this team will restore a manageable cap structure is by removing a high paid player and replacing him with a cheap one. There is a good chance that this replacement will be a considerably worse player.

 

[Corby78]

There’s a little genius in there somewhere in Mr Gone’s madness. We ARE chasing in the wrong direction (with little choice to keep on pursuing the postseason dance). The good franchises do that, but good franchises also draft well and make savvy trades to supplement those expensive roster players. Continuing the trend of paying big $ to older/aging players is expensive and honestly the product (their production and play) is typically a depreciating thing.

The thing is, when the option is to wreck your D corp with nothing but hopes, prayers and unready young D prospects, you don’t trade a Carlson for futures. Unless 1)he wants out, 2)the ask is outrageous, 3)you don’t consider him part of the core.

But then if you go the route of not signing Carlson to go younger and less expensive, you need to go wholesale and do the same with Ovie/Nicky and such. There is no sense in going that route with our best D while your still holding on to the current core of offensive players.

 

[txpd]

You seem to forget that the franchise is in a difficult position for the future. We're not good enough to win the Cup right now and we're not ready for the post-Ovechkin era yet.

The only thing that makes sense right now is to try to remain a playoff team until we can't.

I don't agree that they are not good enough, but that is beside the point. How good would they have to be? The last team with a record over two consecutive seasons as good as the last two Caps seasons was the juggernaut dynasty Scotty Bowman 1970s Montreal teams. They don't get any better than that.

 

[txpd]

I'm on the west coast and I also see plenty of Oilers' games. Benning sure looked like a reliable puck moving D-man to me last year. Looks bad this year but so does nearly every player on the Oilers.

We are heading down the path of Chicago Blackhawks. We are spending more and more money on an aging core group and WE HAVE NO CAP SPACE. The only way to resolve our cap crunch long term is to remove a high paid player. It could have been Oshie last year but we chose to retain him. We are spending cap dollars faster than we are freeing them up.

The only way this team will restore a manageable cap structure is by removing a high paid player and replacing him with a cheap one. There is a good chance that this replacement will be a considerably worse player.

To be clear then. Which of the aging core would you keep and why?

 

[traparatus]

But then if you go the route of not signing Carlson to go younger and less expensive, you need to go wholesale and do the same with Ovie/Nicky and such. There is no sense in going that route with our best D while your still holding on to the current core of offensive players.

You are ignoring our organizational strengths and weaknesses. If we had potential replacements for Ovi/Backstrom developing in the system than we could seriously discuss moving on from them. We don't. We are lucky if we get a 3rd line center out of our prospect pool.

Our organizational depth is on defense. We just need to hold on for a few years while some of our prospects turn into NHL players.

 

[traparatus]

To be clear then. Which of the aging core would you keep and why?

Ovechkin, obviously.

Backstrom, Holtby, Kuznetsov, Orlov, Oshie because of contract. Orlov is young and cheap, Holtby is cheap, we don't have any centers in the system and Oshie is not trade-able.

One of Carlson or Niskanen gotta go. Niskanen is cheap, Carlson won't be.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

I don't agree that they are not good enough, but that is beside the point. How good would they have to be? The last team with a record over two consecutive seasons as good as the last two Caps seasons was the juggernaut dynasty Scotty Bowman 1970s Montreal teams. They don't get any better than that.

We have an outside shot, like 5% or less of winning the Cup if that's what you wanted me to say.