CapitalsCupReality
It’s Go Time!!
- Feb 27, 2002
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Player Discussion John Carlson - Vol. 1
- Thread starter BenchBrawl
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maacoshark
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- Jul 22, 2017
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So what he had one 30 goal season in his career on a line with Ovi and Backstrom and he is in his 10 the season. Hit 60 points once in 10 seasons. And you call that excellence. Your standards are low.
Alexander Semin 4 times reached 30 goals and another time reached 40. Was he considered excellent?
Yes, of course he was. Many smart people thought Semin had more raw talent than Ovechkin. He had the best wrist shot in the world for a few years. Semin could have been an all-time great goal scorer. He was elite... he just never seemed to give enough f***s.
Alexander the Gr8
Registered User
Semin used to be an elite player. Didn't last long but at his best, he was one of the 10 most dangerous players in the league.
I don't give a crap about what Oshie did in St. Louis, all that matters is how good he's been in a Caps uniform.
txpd
Registered User
As mentioned Caps players singled out Oshie in exit interviews to keep. In the past players singled out Semin to get rid of. Oshie has also been money in both playoff seasons.
maacoshark
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- Jul 22, 2017
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Semin did have more raw talent than Ovi but he wasn't an excellent hockey player. He was a very skilled player with no hockey IQ.
maacoshark
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- Jul 22, 2017
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Like I said he was okon a line with Ovi and Backstrom. When he isn't with them he struggles. I think in a couple years we will be sorry we signed him to an 8 year deal.
We'll differ on our definitions of excellent. He was underrated defensively and one of the most dangerous forwards in the league for a few years. He has a career CF% of 54.5% and a career PPG of 0.80. He also had 34 pts in 51 career playoff games. He has Similarity Scores (players with careers of similar quality and shape) comparable to the following players: Claude Giroux, Jaime Benn, John Tavares, Patrick Sharp, Cam Neely, Adam Oates, James Neal, Marty St. Louis, Pat LaFontaine, and Patrick Elias, among others. My opinion: he was definitely excellent whose attitude brought undue negative attention towards him ("Lazy Russian"). In fact, he was so good that the biggest complaint people had with him was that he wasn't more dominant.
CapitalsCupReality
It’s Go Time!!
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You guys have said it all. On one side, reality, on the other, the pie in the sky expectations of Maacoshark. Nuff said.
CapitalsCupReality
It’s Go Time!!
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Flawed mentality is flawed and here's why.
Oshie was specifically brought in to play on that line and on the PP because it has been historically difficult to find guys who meshed well there. ALL Oshie did was excel in the position at a bargain price of a $4.175 cap hit for 2 years. You instead attempt to use his great performance his first 2 years in some absurd manner to try and discredit the guy? I don't get some of you "fans".
We all want over performers at bargain prices, but I'll HAPPILY settle for an over performer at a fair market rate.
Not enough for you though....SMH.
Please...keep on reminding everyone "in a few years he could suck".....nobody knows that, but keep your "I told you so" queued and polished up for when it becomes official.
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CapitalsCupReality
It’s Go Time!!
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BINGO. The "does he even care about hockey" stuff was definitely secondary to me and I think I was one of his more vocal critic at times here. As a sports fan, it stings knowing one of your favorites doesn't care enough to turn his natural talents into on-ice (or field) greatness and that was my biggest beef with him. He should have been much more dominant as a player and for that I will forever feel like he was an underachiever in DC.
maacoshark
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- Jul 22, 2017
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Problem is that he isn't playing with those guys right now and he sucks. Is that the only way to get production from him?
CapitalsCupReality
It’s Go Time!!
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He “sucks” because he had a head injury. He was playing GREAT prior to that.
He doesn’t suck because of who or who are NOT his line mates IMO.
He doesn’t suck because of who or who are NOT his line mates IMO.
txpd
Registered User
Oshie was doing his thing right up to the concussion. I am disappointed that he hasn't found his way back since then, but I don't think his game is gone for ever
maacoshark
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- Jul 22, 2017
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CapitalsCupReality
It’s Go Time!!
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What, the truth is some profession of love? I happen to think you've got some odd views on hockey is all. I don't think I'm alone in this, but hey, OPINIONS right?!?
maacoshark
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- Jul 22, 2017
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Tell me what us wrong with my view. I dont think signing a 31 year old player to an 8 year 5.75 m per season contract is a very good deal. How is that can odd view? I really think we are going to regret that signing. I'm also surprised people are buying into the hype because he has had one 30 goal season in 10 seasons. Do it on a more consistent basis and I'll buy in. Problem is that he is 31. His better days might be behind him.What, the truth is some profession of love? I happen to think you've got some odd views on hockey is all. I don't think I'm alone in this, but hey, OPINIONS right?!?
Just curious if any of you saw him play before he got here.
CapitalsCupReality
It’s Go Time!!
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Not sure anyone here thought 8 years was smart. You want to argue what’s been discussed and largely accepted?
His best years could be behind him, but we’re talking about what he’s done so far in a Caps uni. Until the head injury he’s outperformed his $. Argue that.
Yes I saw him play in St Louis more than enough. How is that relevant to him outperforming his contract since the trade?
His best years could be behind him, but we’re talking about what he’s done so far in a Caps uni. Until the head injury he’s outperformed his $. Argue that.
Yes I saw him play in St Louis more than enough. How is that relevant to him outperforming his contract since the trade?
Holtbyisms
Matt Irwin is a legit talent
Oshie was fine until he got hurt. Think he's still not right this year. Remember 19's return from concussion?
Carlson is gonna get paid.
Carlson is gonna get paid.
maacoshark
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- Jul 22, 2017
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So because he out performed his contract you think we should sign a 31 year old old to an 8 year deal. Like I said I think we are going to regret that signing.
Everyone knows that contract sucks for Caps. But the cap hit was minimized with a mere hope for winning the cup before he's done (traded/BO).
CapitalsCupReality
It’s Go Time!!
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How many times do people have to post that “nobody really liked the contract term” for it to sink in with you? Doesn’t change the fact that he’s more than earned his $ so far every year in DC.
maacoshark
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- Jul 22, 2017
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I've never seen anyone else post that. I haven't been on this site that long. I also never said he didnt earn his money the first 2 seasons here. He definitely did. Not sure he is earning his salary now and there is a chance it could get worse. I really hope he ends up playing well for us for a long time.
CapitalsCupReality
It’s Go Time!!
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Hivemind
We're Touched
In large part, the issue with Oshie's contract was the term and the age it was signed. It was one of the deals where you're mostly paying for what the player has done in the past, not what the player will do in the future. It's paying Oshie big bucks for what is highly likely to be the downward trajectory of his career, and doing so for a very long time.
Carlson is a few years younger than Oshie, and should still have some good hockey ahead of him. There's a solid chance you can get more good years out of Carlson's contract than bad years. A Carlson contract should still have significant future value left in it. There are definitely arguments to be made why Carlson could be worth the money it will take to sign him (although that does depend seriously on what exactly that number is).
That being said, the Caps management can't look at Carlson in a vacuum. They need to analyze whether this roster can absorb another XXL-sized contract without becoming too top heavy. They need to evaluate when their window for a best cup chance actually is.
Carlson is a few years younger than Oshie, and should still have some good hockey ahead of him. There's a solid chance you can get more good years out of Carlson's contract than bad years. A Carlson contract should still have significant future value left in it. There are definitely arguments to be made why Carlson could be worth the money it will take to sign him (although that does depend seriously on what exactly that number is).
That being said, the Caps management can't look at Carlson in a vacuum. They need to analyze whether this roster can absorb another XXL-sized contract without becoming too top heavy. They need to evaluate when their window for a best cup chance actually is.
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