Foppa Frossa
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We definitely need to add some elite talent up front. This team would be so so boned if Mack goes down with an injury.
Joe Sakic - Record as Colorado Avalanche GM - Part II (Updates in First Post)
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Well, they need to see what they have in Jost first. I'm not saying he projects to be elite but they shouldn't be making any big moves to beef themselves up front until they see what the youth can do.
Technically speaking I still think Mikko Rantanen can and will be an elite talent. But he needs to show more consistency first.
Foppberg
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^ Yup. In this upcoming draft I'd rather us target a forward and then a defender with the Sens 1st.
Foppa2118
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I don't think McGinn was a throw in or a cap dump. Buffalo wanted his grit and veteran leadership on their team, and they knew they had the option of trading him at the deadline for an extra asset. Which they did to Anaheim for a 3rd. He also signed his next contract with Florida for a raise on his last deal.
As far as the Avs go, he only had one year left on his deal with a $2.95M cap hit. They had just cleared a massive salary with ROR, and they signed Comeau for $2.4M to replace McGinn. It doesn't seem like dumping McGinn's last year would be a high priority for them.
They had to know they had the option themselves to trade Ginner at the deadline for an asset, and dumping him for the sake of dumping that half million difference between him and Comeau would lose that option to gain an asset.
How was McGinn a cap dump? His cap hit was 3mil. Fair for what he brought to the table. He only had 1 year left on his contract. Who did we need the cap space for? Comeau? And weren't they very active at that time trying to go more into a win now mode? Why would they take a cap dump going into FA? Was anybody talking about him in that fashion at the time (I can't find any mention of him as a camp dump)?
I just always assumed it was a salary dump, that's not an implication that his contract was some sort of albatross, however. Given what he had produced prior to the signing it was relatively good value. But the injuries, IIRC, were starting to pile up, and he has a chronic back issue which amazingly, hasn't led to a premature retirement. I think the Avs also recognized that he was never going to hit the scoring heights he had on two separate occasions with the club. That I admit is speculation on my part, nothing more.
So no, they didn't need to absolutely clear the salary but I don't think Buffalo cared much about getting him in return. Given that his stay in Buffalo was brief, I don't think I'm out of line in thinking that.
I just don't buy that he was some vital component to the trade.
So no, they didn't need to absolutely clear the salary but I don't think Buffalo cared much about getting him in return. Given that his stay in Buffalo was brief, I don't think I'm out of line in thinking that.
I just don't buy that he was some vital component to the trade.
McMetal
Writer of Wrongs
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Buffalo was already taking on salary by taking ROR and only sending back Grigo and Z. If anybody was going to send back a "cap dump" in the deal, it would have been Buffalo, not the Avs. Neither team was in cap trouble so there were no cap dumps in the trade. The Avs probably added McGinn so they could get the rest of their wishlist from Buffalo, so McGinn went over in exchange for Grigo or the 2nd or Compher or something like that. But he was not a valueless asset that was added solely to balance caps. He was there to balance value.
expatriatedtexan
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MarkT
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McGinn was in no sense a cap dump. He was a legit part of the trade and should be measured if you're trying to determine who won the deal. His injury issues of course lowered his value, but I seriously doubt Buffalo placed no value on him as a potential player for them or as someone they could move in the future (which they did).
The team also needs a consistent elite goaltender and elite defensemen. Elite talent doesn't come cheap, and you've got to give up something good to get it. Realistically, I could see Barrie getting moved for some prospects with talent (I don't know about "elite" though), but I assume that wouldn't be until the offseason at the very earliest.
The team also needs a consistent elite goaltender and elite defensemen. Elite talent doesn't come cheap, and you've got to give up something good to get it. Realistically, I could see Barrie getting moved for some prospects with talent (I don't know about "elite" though), but I assume that wouldn't be until the offseason at the very earliest.
A guy who missed an entire year because of a surgery on a chronic back injury wasn't a valuable part of the deal. He was traded for a conditional 3rd rounder after he showed he can even play again at the NHL level. His value at the time of the trade was a 5th rounder if that.
And I love the logic of needing elite D and then trading the only guy on the D corps who's actually elite at something.
And I love the logic of needing elite D and then trading the only guy on the D corps who's actually elite at something.
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Not sure I can agree there, McGinn was seen as a really solid middle 6 winger with a potential 20+ goal resume, a fair amount of grit and not a trainwreck defensively. Had we traded him by himself a 2nd round pick (albeit low) is about where he should have fallen. Buffalo would have gotten that if not for such a mediocre deadline that year, forcing their hand.
If he was healthy maybe. But as you remember Wolfe, he was coming of a major back surgery with big question marks surrounding him.
As for his defense, I always thought he was an extremely poor defender, but that's just my .02$.
As for his defense, I always thought he was an extremely poor defender, but that's just my .02$.
I agree. He was actually quite terrible from a positional sense. He was always all over the place.
He provided energy, was a relentless forechecker, and could on occasion score goals in bunches. But just because he didn't become completely useless away from the puck doesn't mean he wasn't bad defensively.
People seem to be forgetting the guy went through a major surgery the year prior. There was at one point a question of whether he was ever going to play hockey again during that season.
He certainly wouldn't have had the value of a 2nd round pick when we traded him.
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Sakic made mistakes initially as GM but this post from a Leafs fan on the main board I think sums up very well how he turned around a team that was heading the wrong way. And he did it in a very short time. Well done Joe.
I wonder to what degree the team utilizes analytics. I'm willing to bet Patrick Wiercioch was an analytics get (didn't pan out but I think he would've been a better add on a better, faster team), and obviously the coaches listen to them to some extent, and KSE as a whole recently upped their involvement across the board. But then I see them clearly going against the grain when it comes to the continued usage of Lindholm, Barberio, and Mironov over Bigras. I get it...those numbers don't tell the whole story but despite the fact he's more or less passing the eye test (I myself have sung Lindy's praises), Lindholm's possession metrics are pretty bad, and Mironov's are...well, let's just not even go there. Not sure what Barberio posts but it can't be good. Bigras's numbers aren't great but they're markedly better than at least two of those guys.
Foppa2118
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It's definitely an issue to an extent, especially in the prospect pool, but we also are only seeing the beginning of what guys like Compher, Kerfoot, and Jost can do. Their talent, and ability to make plays at the NHL level should grow as they get a few years older. Same with Mikko, I think he's got another level he can get to production wise, and we're seeing that a bit this year.
Losing Mack would still be a big blow though no doubt. They are learning how to win playing defense first hockey though, so that could help them win tight games without him. Which would mean it's not as big a loss as it might have been with the way they played before.
tigervixxxen
Optimism=Delusional
Come on now, he has 20 points in 22 games. He's second on the team to Girard in possession.
5280
To the window!
IMO Joe’s biggest mistake was in hiring Roy, he seems to be righting the ship and making more right than wrong moves since that debacle. There was obviously some philisophical differences in their approaches and it would have been nice for them to have ironed those out on the golf course before hand
While he no doubt played a part, Sakic shouldn't get the credit nor the blame for the hiring of Patrick Roy. Ownership was going to bring him aboard no matter what.
The arrangement was doomed from the start. Either Roy should have had all executive power or none of it. You can't have a two-headed monster running an organization. There will always be fundamental disagreements, doesn't matter whether things were ironed out on the golf course or not.
Ironically, much as Roy seems averse to analytics he proved them right in one fundamental philosophy that forever changed when coaches decide to pull the goalie. Unfortunately I think it's also resulted in the epidemic of empty-net goals we've been witnessing, but y'know...
Again, I really, really want to see Patrick Roy given free rein with a different team. Habs, expansion club, some other team, who knows. But I want to see him get that shot. I have said before I think he will fail because I think his philosophies/tactics are horribly outdated, but the league needs a personality like his in the worst way. And if he proves me wrong, bonus.
Joe doesn't get enough credit for landing Alex Kerfoot. That deal doesn't happen without him if Kerfoot is to be believed, and I can't even imagine where the team would be without him. Currently leading the team in goals and only 1 point short of being tied for 4th in rookie scoring.
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