Joe Sakic - Record as Colorado Avalanche GM - Part II (Updates in First Post)

[StayAtHomeAv]

Wanting and doing what you know needs to be done are completely different things.

So you pull this crap because I disagree with what you say sometimes and quote you? Wow, Lol. That makes you ignore what is said, twist what is said, exaggerate what is said and all this other childish crap?

If you have such a problem with me disagreeing with what you say and feel the need to pull this crap because I "quoted you" then you could just not respond at all. I have every right to disagree with who or what I feel like. I have every right to agree. And I have the right to quote and respond to things I disagree or agree with. Ain't my fault you post a million times a day. When someone does that they are going to get quoted often.

And I love how you think I've got some personal vendetta against you or something ridiculous. Clearly you are the one taking shit personal and have a problem with me simply quoting you. I've got a personal issue with just one person here and I basically ignore him.

 

[Bubba Thudd]

Wanting and doing what you know needs to be done are completely different things.

So you pull this crap because I disagree with what you say sometimes and quote you? Wow, Lol. That makes you ignore what is said, twist what is said, exaggerate what is said and all this other childish crap?

If you have such a problem with me disagreeing with what you say and feel the need to pull this crap because I "quoted you" then you could just not respond at all. I have every right to disagree with who or what I feel like. I have every right to agree. And I have the right to quote and respond to things I disagree or agree with. Ain't my fault you post a million times a day. When someone does that they are going to get quoted often.

And I love how you think I've got some personal vendetta against you or something ridiculous. Clearly you are the one taking **** personal and have a problem with me simply quoting you. I've got a personal issue with just one person here and I basically ignore him.

I disagree. And I quoted you.
I normally wouldn't do that, but I'm feeling emboldened.

 

[McMetal]

Are we certain there was a trade offer like that from Ottawa? I know everyone was convinced the Isles made an offer involving Hamonic but Dater quickly shot that down. I get that if we discount all rumored deals, we'd have nothing to talk about, but it feels like we're judging his performance based on some mythical unicorn offer that was probably never out there to begin with.

I trust the source for that info, let's just put it that way. I don't buy all of the rumored offers for Duchene, but that one looks legit.

 

[Pokecheque]

Fair enough, just wanting to know if there was some substantiation there. I still don't really blame Sakic for not pulling the trigger at that time.

 

[AnimalMother73]

Waited to post this for a while but very good job on the trade! I'll eat crow as I've been bagging on him for a while. If Bednar progresses and this trade turns out favorable like all are suggesting I'll take back some of the incapable / inept comments I've laid at Sakic's feet over the past year.

 

[MarkT]

Waited to post this for a while but very good job on the trade! I'll eat crow as I've been bagging on him for a while. If Bednar progresses and this trade turns out favorable like all are suggesting I'll take back some of the incapable / inept comments I've laid at Sakic's feet over the past year.

I'm also off the "fire Sakic" bandwagon although one great trade doesn't wipe everything away.

 

[Freudian]

Sakic wouldn't take the deal because he was hell bent on getting that top potential D already in the NHL. It wasn't until he backed off that demand a deal became possible.

Since it turned out ok in the end Sakic won't be haunted by what could have been and he probably learned a lot in the process.

 

[Pokecheque]

He is addressing the deficits that utterly destroyed the team in 2016-17. The team is significantly younger and faster, the defense is looking significantly more mobile and able to move the puck, and he's adding defensive/two-way forwards at both the NHL and AHL levels.

It remains to be seen if he's made the right choice in coaches and they still need to make some inroads toward the development of viable goaltenders but I'll admit Sakic has made me eat some crow of late.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

I'm one of the guys that was willing to give more time to Sakic so he had a chance to prove he knew what he was doing. So far I like what I see. I really like the addition of guys like Bowers and Kamenev. At the very least they should be 3rd line players that can shutdown other teams' top line. However what these guys can give you is very good support guys to top-6 guys. Teams rarely have 6 top-6 guys in their lineup so guys like them are perfect complementary guys to balance the other more offensive top-6 players on those lines. These guys are physical, very good defensively and with some good upside offensively but meanly they can create space for the other guys and cover for them defensively the same way Landy is doing right now on the top line. It really gives the Avs some very good options if they pan out.

 

[Patagonia]

I’m also off the hate Sakic bandwagon. Trades for ROR and Duchene, Ghetto/Barbiero/Nieto/Yakupov pickups, Kerfoot along with some fantastic drafts changed my opinion.

He learned from past mistakes and very impressed and has become a very good GM.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

ROR trade was a good one? I strongly disagree.

O’Reilly and McGinn

for

Zadorov, Grigorenko, Compher, Greer, Morrison, Smirnov

- Grigs is already out of the organization.
- Morrison and Smirnov are unlikely to ever become NHLers, but who knows. Too early there.
- Zadorov looks like a bottom pairing, zero offense defensemen at best and I don’t want to really hear otherwise.
- Compher hopefully becomes a reliable top 9, two-way forward like a ROR lite version.
- Greer is still an unknown, hopefully becomes a bottom 6 grinder.

A 2nd/3rd liner, 4th liner, and 5th/6th defensemen for one of the elite two way players in the game, locked down for the next decade.

This is a good trade?

I know a lot is left to be determined with our return, but all I’m saying is it’s very early to call that good. As of now, it’s bad and it’s okay to admit that. If people said Grigs would be in Russia, Zads would be in the press box, and Compher would be the only NHL return as of now... they would have been called crazy, but that’s the reality of the situation right now.

 

[Pokecheque]

I try not to get too much into who won/lost a trade but I will say that in order for the O'Reilly deal to be successful in my eyes both Zadorov and Compher at the very least need to be roster mainstays. If that bar isn't reached then no, it's not a good deal. Jury is still out however.

 

[Sea Eagles]

ROR trade was a good one? I strongly disagree.

O’Reilly and McGinn

for

Zadorov, Grigorenko, Compher, Greer, Morrison, Smirnov

- Grigs is already out of the organization.
- Morrison and Smirnov are unlikely to ever become NHLers, but who knows. Too early there.
- Zadorov looks like a bottom pairing, zero offense defensemen at best and I don’t want to really hear otherwise.
- Compher hopefully becomes a reliable top 9, two-way forward like a ROR lite version.
- Greer is still an unknown, hopefully becomes a bottom 6 grinder.

A 2nd/3rd liner, 4th liner, and 5th/6th defensemen for one of the elite two way players in the game, locked down for the next decade.

This is a good trade?

I know a lot is left to be determined with our return, but all I’m saying is it’s very early to call that good. As of now, it’s bad and it’s okay to admit that. If people said Grigs would be in Russia, Zads would be in the press box, and Compher would be the only NHL return as of now... they would have been called crazy, but that’s the reality of the situation right now.

Compher is playing as our 2C
Greer is an absolute beast and delight
Zadorov is still improving - and I feel just needs to be let off his leash
They don't have Mcginn anymore - we don't have Grigs
We are 22nd, they are 29th

We win.

 

[Pokecheque]

Keep in mind McGinn was a salary dump. That is a benefit that needs to be factored into the trade.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

Keep in mind McGinn was a salary dump. That is a benefit that needs to be factored into the trade.

In no shape, way, or fashion was Jamie McGinn a salary dump in the trade.

Ridiculous statement.

Compher is playing as our 2C
Greer is an absolute beast and delight
Zadorov is still improving - and I feel just needs to be let off his leash
They don't have Mcginn anymore - we don't have Grigs
We are 22nd, they are 29th

We win.

Not sure how to take your posts seriously.

Okay, JTC is our 2C. Is he better than O'Reilly or even close? (scared to see your answer)

Zadorov isn't improving, he is quite clearly going backwards.

You are suggesting that JTC as our current 2C and Zadorov as a trainwreck of a healthy scratch/3rd pairing D is superior to Ryan O'Reilly. It's hard to actually respond to you.

 

[Patagonia]

ROR was a Cancer to the team. I left out his salary demands of $7.5-$8M per would have destroyed their cap structure. Barrie or Duchene (2 years before traded) need to be immediately dumped instead of patiently waiting for the right deal. Mackinnon extension would at least be $8M instead of the $6.35M.

The returning players is still undecided. This was the best deal for a disgruntled selfish player concerned about $$$. Zadorov is still 22 years old large DMen that Sakic couldn’t even locate for Duchene. Compher will be replacing Duchene on the 2nd or 3rd lines for years with Greer being nearly NHL ready. Morrison remains in college and improving. Grigorenko could have remained if his salary demands were lower, but his leave allowed room for Yakupov for less money. Consider all these players cost approx. half of the salary of ROR, they have the flexibility to extend or add another player.

I don’t blame ROR for their collapse, but he would have at least slowed the rebuild.

Understandably, fans might see otherwise...ROR trade ignited a fundamental shift towards rebuilding their farm and seeking highly skilled players. AVs might have lost on the trade, but ultimately their future compared to the Sabres they won the war.

 

[Gigantor The Goalie]

I give Sakic credit for a good return in the Duchene trade. My issue has never been with Sakic's general trading though. Sure I wasn't happy that it dragged out this long but overall I don't expect Sakic to torpedo the team through trades. My worries lie in properly identifying coaches and development. Next season will be huge for the Colorado Eagles and it'll be a very good time for Sakic to implement whatever he wants regarding the Eagles/Avs development system. This off-season is a big test for Sakic where change needs to happen front office wise.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

The ROR trade looks terrible. However, the return was never going to be full value as ROR was entering his final UFA year and everyone knew Sakic had put himself in a corner. That being said, it only goes to show how badly Sakic handled the situation and the return was only as bad as it was just because the situation was played completely wrong. Either Sakic would have singed the guy to a long term contract but never should have ROR received a 2 year deal that took him straight to UFA, never. If he was not signing long term then you slap him with a one year deal keeping him a RFA and after that start a league wide bidding war for his services, the highest bidder wins.

 

[Pokecheque]

In no shape, way, or fashion was Jamie McGinn a salary dump in the trade.

Ridiculous statement.

Okay dude, please enlighten me as to why that's such a ridiculous statement.

 

[Foppa2118]

Can we please give Zadorov some semblance of a good head coach and defensive coach, before writing him off, and making official judgements on the ROR trade?

Say whatever you want about Zadorov and his game, but there's one thing that is inarguable, and that's the idea that Bednar's approach with him is working. He threw him in the doghouse the first few days of training camp, and he's been terrible ever since. It's clearly made him worse, not better.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

I try not to get too much into who won/lost a trade but I will say that in order for the O'Reilly deal to be successful in my eyes both Zadorov and Compher at the very least need to be roster mainstays. If that bar isn't reached then no, it's not a good deal. Jury is still out however.

They need to be top4 and top6 mainstays

 

[Foppberg]

If we were to trade Zadorov before actually giving him a chance... I think we'd regret it quite a bit.

I'm not blind, he obviously has a lot of work to do and hasn't been anything close to perfect, but the biggest annoyance/frustation is that he isn't getting a chance. Or is it more an attitude issue with Z? Not sure, but either way knowing the talent he is it's frustrating to have him not playing. I think if the team, or a team, were to just say 'okay, go out and play, don't worry about mistakes' similar to Roy's message to EJ when he first got here, I think that would be the best way to have him succeed.

 

[SnipShow]

Trading for immediate assets is a step in the wrong direction in my opinion. This teams need to build around Mack, Landy, Jost , Rants , Makar, Girard & Compher.

Sakic has mentioned that they are going to continue to build through our young guys.

I see two major holes in our lineup if we want to be a contender. A true #1 D-man & a pure goal scorer.

It can be difficult but I feel that we have to trust our scouting and obtain those holes through the draft.

I see the Avs with a top 10 pick again in this draft & hopefully we can fill one of those major holes if not both.

Trading draft picks away for players in their prime is the wrong step for this team in my opinion. We need to be building though our young players & the ones that haven’t even put the Avs jersey on yet.

 

[Piestany88]

Okay dude, please enlighten me as to why that's such a ridiculous statement.

McGinn was a throw in cap dump , and if u look at O'Reilly he's been good for them but they are still paying 7.5 mil for him and are bottom feeders .

And this is supposed to be for Royislegend , haha

 

[Pokecheque]

McGinn was a throw in cap dump , and if u look at O'Reilly he's been good for then but they are still paying 7.5 mil for him and are bottom feeders .

Agreed.

I'm still waiting to see what RIAL has to say on the matter since he seemed so emphatic with his condescending reply.