Joe Sakic - Record as Colorado Avalanche GM - Part II (Updates in First Post)
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Considering some people are hoping for another bad season with another top5 pick, and hoping Duchene is traded for a futures package which includes a potential 1LD (obviously doesn't help next year), I don't think you can say this.
Who's the president of the US in this alternate world? I might be inclined to move.
Cousin Eddie
You Serious Clark?
- Nov 3, 2006
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cgf
FireBednarsSuccessor
If he had pulled the trigger on the ottawa trade Roy would've stayed, we would've signed Radulov and may have snuck into the post season; with our D set for the future; with some of Sakic's biggest weaknesses being addressed (aka his inability to pull the trigger before he's forced to).
- Aug 25, 2006
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Yes Chabot would look great now as part of a Duchene trade but in Sakic's defense Chabot wasn't even close to look the way he currently looks. He hadn't broken out yet. There were a lot of ?s in his game at the time so I can see why he turned it down if it was offered in the first place.
Let's take this seriously for a second. Like what was said before, it depends on the return. If the return sucked then yes, why wouldn't they be calling for Sakic's head?
But if the return didn't suck and they did indeed get the top-pairing guy they wanted, then I don't think the Avs swoon as bad as they did once EJ went down. Because I can almost guarantee that, maybe Beauchemin would still be there, but Tyutin wouldn't be. That leaves Zads, this mythical defender, Beauch, and Barrie. That might still be a not-good-enough top four, but it wouldn't be generationally bad like it was last season.
And yes, there would still be a bunch of worthless sloggers like Grigorenko and Soderberg, so I don't think they'd actually be good, but they also wouldn't have been horrid either.
Of course this point is kinda moot because if Joe Sakic of Earth-2 did this trade then he'd be an entirely different GM, not the indecisive foot-dragger of Earth-1 Joe Sakic.
Let it be known I don't think trading Duchene sooner would've magically fixed everything, or even anything. Just saying that even that would've been preferable to the present situation.
Foppa2118
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- Oct 3, 2003
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Plenty were fans of his and would have done that deal. Especially given the other piece that came with him. I would bet the Avs amateur scouts were big fans of Chabot too. Right in their wheelhouse style wise and league wise.
McMetal
Writer of Wrongs
- Sep 29, 2015
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Duchene was also coming off a 30 goal season, so his value was a lot higher than it is now. It may look bad now, with Chabot ascendant and Duchene having a terrible season, but at the time it wasn't so cut and dried.
- Aug 25, 2006
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Maybe not as big as you think as they didn't take the deal and run.
What were the other pieces of that offer anyway? I forgot.
Tommy Shelby
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- Feb 26, 2012
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It wasn't their call to make, Sakic had the final say and refused a Zibby + Chabot deal.
- Aug 25, 2006
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I know it wasn't. I meant the Avs when I said "they".
As I said there were ?s about Chabot as it was before he broke out. There were also ?s about Zibby at the time. He just had a pretty good season but people weren't sure if he was finally becoming the player they were expecting him to be. Duchene just had a 30-goal season as well. It was not as easy a decision as some here making out to be.
And that's the problem. You guys and Sakic are looking for an easy decision. A fair trade isn't going to be easy to make. And we sure as hell are not getting a massive overpayment for Duchene, especially now.
This also shows Sakic's inability to recognize defensive talent before said person breaks out. The scouts recognized it. As did Roy.
- Aug 25, 2006
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He did with Zadorov in the ROR trade or at least we Avs fans believe it as well so why can't he do it again? I am not asking for an easy decision but I also don't want him to trade for the sake of trading him. If the return is not good then he might as well wait later when the return will be almost as much as it is now if not more if Duchene rebounds which most of us believe he will. And I don't buy that crap that he must trade him now because of locker room issue/awkwardness and so forth. They are pros...they can deal with it.
As for the second bold...not sure what you mean by that?
Zadorov was already in the NHL, and he hasn't exactly broken out either.
Roy recognized that Chabot was about to take his game to the next level.
We are talking about a good deal that Sakic passed on because he can't identify which prospect is going to explode, despite others in the org wanting to do it. Don't act like he isn't getting good deals.
And you are kidding yourself if you think Duchene rebounding is going to increase his value. The only thing that will increase his value is signing an extension, which I doubt he does other than with Nashville.
As for being pros, how did that work out last year?
Roy recognized that Chabot was about to take his game to the next level.
We are talking about a good deal that Sakic passed on because he can't identify which prospect is going to explode, despite others in the org wanting to do it. Don't act like he isn't getting good deals.
And you are kidding yourself if you think Duchene rebounding is going to increase his value. The only thing that will increase his value is signing an extension, which I doubt he does other than with Nashville.
As for being pros, how did that work out last year?
- Feb 24, 2012
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Tommy Shelby
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- Feb 26, 2012
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Zads is on the cusp of breaking out, you can see some good things but he needs to do those things more consistently to be considered broken out.
- Aug 25, 2006
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That's my point about Z. Even if he was in the NHL already he hadn't broken out yet but he targeted a dman that had a lot of potential. Z had already broken out at the junior level though when he traded for him but not the NHL. At the time of the offer Chabot hadn't broken out in junior yet and he hadn't played one single game in the NHL yet and still hasn't. A lot more risk there. Don't act like you know for a fact that Chabot's success in junior will translate to the NHL. Nobody knows.
Do you have a link that shows that Roy recognized Chabot as about to take his game to the next level? Unless I missed something Roy might have been the one refusing the deal.
I'm not acting like it is not a good deal. All I said was that right now it looks as it would be a very good deal but still no sure thing as Chabot as yet to play one NHL game. At the time it was even riskier. Don't put word in my mouth please.
As for the pro comment...new season hopefully new attitude. They were embarrassed last year. Not too hard to imagine that they will want to change that regardless of who is on the team.
No not yet but he is showing promises. Hopefully he takes the next step this year.
Edit: correction...Chabot has played one NHL game.
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Sea Eagles
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- Feb 7, 2012
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Absolutely. People have to be excited at how he single handedly shut down and tore apart Winnipeg this season.
That's what I'm looking forward to seeing more.
As for Joe Sakic, gee his moves this off season has made me excited for next.
And my point is that Z is basically as valuable then as he is now. Z proves nothing towards Sakic's ability to tell which young prospects/players are going to tap into their potential. If anything, people are cooling off on Zadorov's ceiling and looking at him as more of just another top4 Dman than some guy who could turn into a #1. Regardless, it's not like Sakic had any other choice than to deal with Buffalo who had a major hard on for O'Reilly and made an it "an easy decision" for Sakic.
Where in the world did I say that Chabot's success would in fact translate?
Of course there is risk. That's the whole point. Sakic cant take a risk. And you Sakic apologists seem to be right there with him. You claim you are not asking for an easy decision, but you defend Sakic because it's not an easy decision and because it's "not a sure thing". You can't have it both ways. You can't say you are not asking for an easy decision then turn around and defend Sakic because it wasn't an easy decision or a sure thing.
Yes, you are missing something. Sakic shot down that deal.
- Aug 25, 2006
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All I was saying was that I can see why Sakic refused the trade as there was more risk in Chabot's game at that time than there is now. Now I'm asking for a "sure thing" return in a Duchene deal. Ok then. I have no problem with my team's GM to take calculated risk but if the return for Duchene is weak then we might as well wait for him to rebound and/or being able to sign an extension which should also help with the return. Is he afraid to take a risk? Probably. I think the ROR trade created that with all the negative comments from the media. Should he let that affect his judgement? Of course not but it is human nature to have public opinion affect judgement. If he can't get what he wants by next year, I'm sure he will take the best future package he can get...at least I hope he does.
Some of us might just be better at objectively analyzing a past decision than others using hindsight to do it. If that makes me an apologist then I guess I am. Too bad we can't learn how many GMs would have made that OTT trade. My guess is, for a Duchene that just scored 30 goals at the time, not too many would have.
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