Joe Sakic - Record as Colorado Avalanche GM - Part II (Updates in First Post)

[Pokecheque]

Personally I think coaching overall is a bit overrated. Nothing trumps talent and goaltending. Nothing. The only way I think a coach drastically affects his team is if he's truly awful. Otherwise IMO the best bench bosses are the ones who, for the most part, adapt their systems to the personnel they have at hand. Something someone said to me about those 2009 Penguins has always stuck with me. At the time he got fired, the Penguins under Therrien were in rotten shape and playing awful hockey by every measure. Dan Bylsma came in and realized just how easy it was to coach a team that stacked. It wasn't like he came in with a radical new strategy, he just took the weight off their shoulders and let them play, and so they did, quite well.

That's not to say I don't think guys like Joel Quenneville aren't brilliant, but I don't think your coach has to be great in order for the team to win. He just can't suck. The team, on the other hand, has to be a lot more than just "not bad." They gotta be talented, deep, and most of all, they gotta be fast.

 

[MarkT]

Personally I think coaching overall is a bit overrated. Nothing trumps talent and goaltending. Nothing. The only way I think a coach drastically affects his team is if he's truly awful. Otherwise IMO the best bench bosses are the ones who, for the most part, adapt their systems to the personnel they have at hand. Something someone said to me about those 2009 Penguins has always stuck with me. At the time he got fired, the Penguins under Therrien were in rotten shape and playing awful hockey by every measure. Dan Bylsma came in and realized just how easy it was to coach a team that stacked. It wasn't like he came in with a radical new strategy, he just took the weight off their shoulders and let them play, and so they did, quite well.

That's not to say I don't think guys like Joel Quenneville aren't brilliant, but I don't think your coach has to be great in order for the team to win. He just can't suck. The team, on the other hand, has to be a lot more than just "not bad." They gotta be talented, deep, and most of all, they gotta be fast.

I think the amount coaching matters (in a positive way) is in direct proportion to how inexperienced/immature your team is. If you've got a strong, veteran leadership core you barely need a coach because those guys can coach themselves and probably coach the rest of the team too. If you've got a bunch of young guys leading your team, they need the coach's support and guidance, and if that's flawed then they become flawed players.

You're dead on about coaching when the coach is bad though. A bad coach can sink any team.

It remains to be seen which type Bednar is, but I'm cautiously optimistic.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Dallas has seemed like the bizarro Avs for a while now. They seem to always have the same problems the Avs have.

Not enough depth scoring. A very thin blueline outside the top couple guys. One of them being an offensive specialist that's a liability defensively, making the depth problem worse in the D zone. Poor drafting. And too many injuries to goaltenders.

Their strengths are very similar too. They've built their teams very similarly to the Avs in terms of style, and team makeup.

Seguin - MacKinnon
Benn - Landy
Radulov - Rantanen
Spezza - Duchene
Klingberg - Barrie
Hamhuis - EJ

The big difference to me being that the Stars were a little ahead of the Avs so they kept trying to go with what they had. Then they lost a couple key guys, and now they're stuck in no mans land.

The Avs on the other hand committed to a reset with the ROR and the Duchene trades. They got younger, and traded for some talent on the blueline with Zadorov and Girard, plus some depth scoring with Compher.

They were also able to stockpile some depth pieces for the future in those trades with Kamenev, Bowers, and Greer/Meloche (depending on who you think they would have drafted if they only had one pick).

Plus an extra 1st, 2nd, and 3rd with the Duchene trade which could produce decent NHLers, especially that Ottawa 1st.

Also, because they were bottom dwellers they've been able to pick higher in the draft than Dallas and draft some high end talent in Mikko, Jost, and Makar.

For the same reason, they've also been able to add some good depth pieces via waivers with early picks in Nieto and Nemeth, who have played well this year. As well as Barberio and Alt who are decent depth options.

All of that adds up to the two teams kinda switching places in terms of who's on the upswing, and who's on the downswing.

For the life of me I could never understand why people couldn't see this before. All of the pundits were all over Dallas's nuts for so long with no one predicting regression. Even with them chronically attempting to fix their defense through free agency.

A lot of their future depends on Miro turning out.

 

[CobraAcesS]

We'll see. I'd rather he sit on his hands than do what the team did in the 2014 and 2015 offseasons. So long as he makes moves that improve the immediate future without torpedoing them long-term I'm all for it. I say that knowing sooner or later he's gonna overpay someone badly. Every team does it.

Hopefully that's Barrie lol, and it's only a few people here that think he's over paid.

 

[Pokecheque]

For the life of me I could never understand why people couldn't see this before. All of the pundits were all over Dallas's nuts for so long with no one predicting regression. Even with them chronically attempting to fix their defense through free agency.

A lot of their future depends on Miro turning out.

I think it was largely because they were so aggressive from the get-go, and they went the opposite route of the Avs and made two very high-profile coaching hires. And they had that absolutely awesome run, if their Finnish goalie tandem hadn't stumbled in the postseason who knows how far they might have gone. Unfortunately they over-corrected and now look too old and too slow. I still think Bishop was a mistake, but I can't blame them given that he was the best goalie on the market at the time.

 

[Foppberg]

Not sure if this affects the Avs directly or not but....

 

[Pokecheque]

They said both Connelly and Sakic still report directly to him, and really he doesn't have a hand in day-to-day operations so that's fine. I would think this directly affects how Arsenal is run more than anything else. I know KSE ain't popular in those parts.

 

[Freudian]

Didn't he live in Denver? Might not have a reason to now.

 

[5280]

I couldn’t stay away from HF for more than a day. Who was I kidding, I don’t have a life, lol. Just wanted to say I saw Joe’s end of season interview today and thought he’s looking really good. Best I’ve seen him in awhile.

 

[Foppa2118]

I couldn’t stay away from HF for more than a day. Who was I kidding, I don’t have a life, lol. Just wanted to say I saw Joe’s end of season interview today and thought he’s looking really good. Best I’ve seen him in awhile.

The amount of stress he's under is probably miniscule compared to this time last year. Glad he can enjoy his job a little more at least with things back on the upswing.

 

[5280]

The amount of stress he's under is probably miniscule compared to this time last year. Glad he can enjoy his job a little more at least with things back on the upswing.

Yes, exactly

 

[MarkT]

I'm so glad the Avs didn't give into the pressure that must have existed and fired Sakic. I really think he's going to build this team into a contender the right way, and we'll finally be seeing some long-term success in the cap era. He's made some mistakes, but it looks and sounds like he's learned from them, and that's all you can really ask from a first time GM.

 

[Pokecheque]

Russo did an item-by-item breakdown of Chuck Fletcher's nine-year tenure as Minnesota's GM. I read through the whole thing (boy was it a long list) and what stood out was the huge amount of waiver pickups, players placed on waivers, and buyouts. One thing you can't say about Fletcher, he wasn't the guy who took the patient approach...he was aggressive throughout. I don't think I need to say whether or not that was the right approach. The results speak for themselves. And by his own admission, Fletcher traded away two legit #1 defenders in Nick Leddy and Brent Burns for what amounted to nothing.

I'm so glad the Avs didn't give into the pressure that must have existed and fired Sakic. I really think he's going to build this team into a contender the right way, and we'll finally be seeing some long-term success in the cap era. He's made some mistakes, but it looks and sounds like he's learned from them, and that's all you can really ask from a first time GM.

Well, they did ask for (and I think were granted for a time) permission to talk to Kyle Dubas in Toronto, but then the Leafs shut it down and signed Dubas to an extension. I don't think they'll ever fire Sakic, but I do think eventually he'll head upstairs to a "Team President" role and the day-to-day stuff will go to someone else. Not that I'm in any hurry to see him leave, I just think it will happen sooner or later.

One thing very encouraging to me is that this franchise is finding its own way of doing things instead of trying to bring back the halcyon Lacroix era of yesteryear. I felt like for too long they were still too insular, too dead-set on bringing those days back instead of plotting a new course. I think they're doing that now. Bednar is a sign of that IMO. Obviously Sakic himself isn't but he's also proven to be open to new ideas and new modes of thinking, like analytics, which IMO never would have been incorporated properly while Roy was in charge.

 

[Sea Eagles]

I'm so glad the Avs didn't give into the pressure that must have existed and fired Sakic. I really think he's going to build this team into a contender the right way, and we'll finally be seeing some long-term success in the cap era. He's made some mistakes, but it looks and sounds like he's learned from them, and that's all you can really ask from a first time GM.

And the improvement in us still to go, given we were the youngest team in the league is astronomical. We have the building blocks in place (and constantly getting better) to rebuild a dynasty in my opinion. Exciting times ahead everyone. I hope everyone who jumped ship when the chips were down, gets back on board. I was so proud of our fans at Pepsi Center towards the end of the season. Out boys deserve that kind of support.

And our players responded, and repaid them in bucketloads.

What an amazing season.

Kudos to Sakic. Even attaining a 19 y/o Girard, who should be here for the next 10-15 years at least alone for Dutchy was gold.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

We have the building blocks in place (and constantly getting better) to rebuild a dynasty in my opinion.

The optimism is getting out of hand. The Avs will be hard pressed to win one cup with this core, not to mention become a freaking dynasty. There is just too much competition and only one team wins it per year in 31 team league, soon 32 teams. A lot needs to go right for this team to become a cup contender and even if they become that a ton of really good teams have never won the cup or even reached the cup finals.

 

[Foppberg]

The optimism is getting out of hand. The Avs will be hard pressed to win one cup with this core, not to mention become a freaking dynasty. There is just too much competition and only one team wins it per year in 31 team league, soon 32 teams. A lot needs to go right for this team to become a cup contender and even if they become that a ton of really good teams have never won the cup or even reached the cup finals.

Oh hush. After last season let people have some damn optimism about the team, whether it be reaching or not.

 

[Sea Eagles]

The optimism is getting out of hand. The Avs will be hard pressed to win one cup with this core, not to mention become a freaking dynasty. There is just too much competition and only one team wins it per year in 31 team league, soon 32 teams. A lot needs to go right for this team to become a cup contender and even if they become that a ton of really good teams have never won the cup or even reached the cup finals.

Say what you like, we were down 2 starting goalies and a number 1 D-man, and pushed the bets team to 6 in the playoffs. The Preds size, strength, skill and intensity showed our kids what and where we need to be. I keep hearing all the things our team can't do from our own fans. Be as negative as you like. I feel like we are starting to have a footprint that will make us very, very competitive, very, very soon.

How many times in the P/O's did you hear that we were the Preds of a few years ago? Give it time, and think positively.

 

[Foppa2118]

The 2016-17 season sucked all the optimsim out of Denver like Mega Maid from Spaceballs. Sea Eagles' optimism around here has been a breath of fresh air. Like opening up a window in a stale apartment.

 

[McMetal]

The 2016-17 season sucked all the optimsim out of Denver like Mega Maid from Spaceballs. Sea Eagles' optimism around here has been a breath of fresh air. Like opening up a window in a stale apartment.

He's not crazy, he's just ahead of the curve.

 

[Sea Eagles]

Top 10 in the NHL next season everyone. Bank it

 

[Avs_19]

Signing Francouz and getting Shvyrev to come over is a nice little start to an important offseason. They're minor moves on paper and who knows if they'll work out but there isn't much of a downside.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Make no mistake I too think that the Avs are going to be a really good team in the near future, the building blocks are very encouraging. However, it remains to be seen if that happens next season. I suspect we will take a step back next year, unless Sakic makes big addition(s), but after the 2019 draft our future will look fantastic.

 

[GoNordiquesGo]

I think the first line will take a step back but the team as a whole won't.

 

[Pokecheque]

It all depends on what we consider a "step back." The Avs made it into the postseason by the slimmest possible margin, there's a chance they could miss next year just as easily. Don't get me wrong, I'll be super-bummed if they miss, but it's possible, and I do not want them taking any shortcuts whatsoever.

It's funny reading up on the Toronto GM situation. It's apparent that Colorado offered up the GM job to Dubas, only for Toronto to reel him back in. If Toronto had let him go and he took over, would the massive three-team deal for Duchene have gone down? Would it have netted as good a return? Not a diss on Dubas at all, just saying that a different GM might have gone an entirely different direction.

 

[tucker3434]

I think we’ll probably miss the playoffs next year but not actually be a worse team. The central is just really crowded and the margin for error is tiny. The following year will be Makar’s rookie season. Jost, Girard, and Kerfoot will all have a couple years experience. That’s when we should really find out what this core is made of.