Joe Sakic - Record as Colorado Avalanche GM - Part II (Updates in First Post)

[dahrougem2]

I don't see the downside really of the Avs incorporating analytics. We know they work. But that's just one piece of a much larger puzzle. So far a lot of it *seems* to be falling into place, but only time will tell if they are finally, truly, on the right path.

I think we've already seen a case of how analytics can be taken way, way out of context on this very Avs team this season when Jared Bednar mentioned that the analytics people told him Mark Barberio is the best option on the 1st pairing with Erik Johnson, even though Stevie Wonder could tell you he wasn't.

It's when analytics people try to make their voices heard on stuff like that where I tend to shun them away. But there's definitely a place for analytics.

 

[Pokecheque]

In their defense, Barberio really was the best option at the time. IIRC this was when Zadorov was still off to a slow start, and Nemeth was either battling through injury or already placed on IR. That left Barberio and Lindholm. Bednar tried both on EJ's left side, and the analytics department probably told him (small sample size of course) that he was the better option. They tried it for a while, it didn't work, and thankfully Z woke up.

But yes, Barberio really is one of those players who posts good underlying numbers but man, he just don't pass the eye test on a lot of nights. I have no issue with him being a third pairing guy, but hopefully better options come through the pipeline in due time.

 

[Pokecheque]

BTW, I'm pretty sure the analytics guys played a part in the Avs getting analytics darling Patrick Wiercioch. And really, I think in most other scenarios he would've been a decent get. But on a team that was already too slow and too soft he was more a liability than an asset.

I think all their offseason acquisitions in 2016 were actually not terrible (yes, even Colborne) for a team in a transition year. But Sakic's biggest failure was in not recognizing what his team's biggest weaknesses were, and recognizing that those acquisitions merely magnified those weaknesses. He's since made moves to address that, especially during that disastrous campaign when he added speed in Ghetto and Nieto.

But, yes, sometimes the numbers can indeed steer you wrong.

 

[Hasbro]

Oh, and let's be clear on one thing. Kiz is, as usual, talking right out of his ass if he's trying to pump stats. He's only doing so because it fits his narrative for now. He'd just as easily turn on the numbers if they didn't. He has no idea how said numbers work, he's just jumping on what other people say about them.

It's also great for lazy hot take journalism (an area he is an unsung pioneer). You can fill up a column throwing out a bunch of stats.

 

[Pokecheque]

Exactly. Kiz is as lazy as they come. He's like Skip Bayless--he just wants what sells, not what actually is.

Found out recently he blocked me on Twitter, but not sure which of my tweets was the final straw. There are many candidates.

 

[Foppa2118]

The part in which I believe Chambers might have been on to something was the Avs not sounding all that interested in signing Butcher after his junior year and expressing that. They have been quick to say no thanks before and Roy made his opinions quite clear about what he thought about certain players. But how exactly it was framed we'll never know.

Supposedly leaning on analytics in the draft got us Cam Morrison so the jury is still out on how involved we want those folks to be in draft decisions.

Right, but what it just as easily could have been was a conversation about how they didn't want to sign him that off season for various reasons, or that he'd for sure start in the AHL, and somewhere along the line with Chambers lack of responsible reporting, it got turned into the Avs didn't want to sign him at all.

Roy doesn't hide his opinions, but we also know during this time that Sakic and MacFarland were making most of the roster calls, and they weren't really to Roy's liking anyway.

It just doesn't make sense that they would tell him that early that they didn't want him. Really feels like Chambers is leaving out some key details to the story.

 

[Pokecheque]

BTW, the team the "statwhackers" are saying is looking more and more like a gilded lily? The Predators. Their underlying numbers are actually really bad right now, which is surprising because I thought if ANY team was checking all the boxes the analytics crowd likes, it's them.

 

[Pokecheque]

I don't want to derail this thread, but it's been brought up how Sakic has a rep for how he treats his players, and John Chayka's name also came up. Anthrax Jones retweeted this just now:



The way the organization treated Shane Doan (who am I no fan of) was ridiculous. Would they have been that much worse with him in the lineup!?

 

[S E P H]

Meh, everywhere he goes it seems that Domingue plays the victim card such as Roy also treating him like **** in the "Q". I mean it is a tough situation and something that makes the Coyotes look bad (such as not giving him ice, Avs allowed Hejda to at least practice). But if he wasn't so freakin' bad, he would've never been in that position in the first place.

 

[McMetal]

Not to mention the way they gypped Keller out of his bonus at the end of last season by scratching him like a bunch of cheapskates. That org doesn't do itself any favors treating a young guy like that. I don't have much sympathy for Domingue but it would not be out of character for the Yotes to treat somebody shabbily.

Sakic has the right idea. Eating 50% of Iggy's remaining salary for literally no return might look like bad asset management, but it pays dividends in the long run when teams look at you in free agency. It may have even played a role in Kerfoot and Toninato signing if they felt like the Avs were an organization that would treat them with respect. That means a lot in the hockey world.

 

[Pokecheque]

Meh, everywhere he goes it seems that Domingue plays the victim card such as Roy also treating him like **** in the "Q". I mean it is a tough situation and something that makes the Coyotes look bad (such as not giving him ice, Avs allowed Hejda to at least practice). But if he wasn't so freakin' bad, he would've never been in that position in the first place.

You have a point but stories like this keep cropping up out of Arizona.

 

[Ivan13]

They offered him to go to ECHL, he didn't want to because that was beneath him. Absolutely no sympathy for the guy who was so out of touch he didn't realize Wedgewood was there because he is horrible.

 

[Foppa2118]

They offered him to go to ECHL, he didn't want to because that was beneath him. Absolutely no sympathy for the guy who was so out of touch he didn't realize Wedgewood was there because he is horrible.

Shocker, there's something he left out, while whining about how he was mistreated. This is a theme for Domingue.

 

[Bubba Thudd]

Is that any different than the Avs telling Colbourne to stay home?

 

[tigervixxxen]

Domingue's career isn't over?

 

[Avalanche]

Blues announce team giving Sakic a lot of praise coming back from break with 8:44 left in the 1st

 

[Hasbro]

Blues announce team giving Sakic a lot of praise coming back from break with 8:44 left in the 1st

What set that off?

 

[Avalanche]

What set that off?

They are playing Ottawa so naturally they talked about the trade. They showed the records and then Panger was just gushing over what Joe did.

 

[5280]

RE: the trade deadline.....

It will be interesting to find out what Sakic actually does here........I still think should at least stay away from rentals and even might buy an argument that we should be or at least could be sellers if the right offer came around.

My guess says he sits on his hands..... I expect him to do nothing unless a trade proposal comes around he can't refuse. What to do with Barrie has to be the number one priority at the moment.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

I don't mind a rental if it is a 3rd rounder or less. Anything more expensive and I'll just hope to god that it's a hockey trade and the piece coming in is one we'll want to keep around for several years.

 

[5280]

delete, please

 

[McMetal]

If it really is a buyer's market for forwards, I expect him to stand pat. If the market is bad and there's no chance of getting a 2nd or decent prospect for Comeau, he'll keep them, if only to show his players that he isn't going to sell the team out from under them.

 

[Tommy Shelby]

I'm expecting some AHL level swaps but that's about it.

Wouldn't mind Joe swooping in and snagging someone off waivers in the chaos of the day either.

 

[Bubba Thudd]

delete, please

 

[AllAboutAvs]

Thank you Joe for not doing anything stupid at this year TDL (not that I was expecting it) and staying the course.