Player Discussion Jimmy Vesey Part II

[Brooklyn Ranger]

Conditioning Stint would work though, right?

First off, why would the organization even consider it?

And, as Amazing said, the player has to agree to it. Plus, there has to be a valid reason behind it--the league reviews conditioning stints. Unless Vesey gets hurt and is out of the lineup for more than a couple of weeks, it's not happening.

 

[Larrybiv]

More than running out of time, the issue is the coach seems to think he's doing great. Gets important minutes, gets 2PP time... it's insane.

IMO he doesn't need to "develop" so much more as much as he needs to pick a style of play and focus on using his skills to best fit it. He has a lot of raw skills, just doesn't seem to know how to use them or what kind of player he is. IMO he should work on throwing the body, being quick in on the forecheck and slamming in garbage goals from the crease. He's got the size and speed for it if he'd button down and focus on it. Of course, if you're him why think about drastically changing your game when the coach seems to love your current ineffective one?

Wouldn't that be AV's job to sit down with him and suggest this? I kind of blame AV for allowing him to be a "freewheeling" type player. He just doesn't seem to fit as he doesn't ever really produce. Is it his linemates? Seems he has played with just about EVERYONE. So, literally it has to be ......on him.
My 2 cents would be giving my cousin Vinny a shot and put him with Vesey and Boo. Maybe he clicks with those 2. Worth a shot, and could kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

 

[haveandare]

Wouldn't that be AV's job to sit down with him and suggest this? I kind of blame AV for allowing him to be a "freewheeling" type player. He just doesn't seem to fit as he doesn't ever really produce. Is it his linemates? Seems he has played with just about EVERYONE. So, literally it has to be ......on him.
My 2 cents would be giving my cousin Vinny a shot and put him with Vesey and Boo. Maybe he clicks with those 2. Worth a shot, and could kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

Yeah, I'd think so. Or maybe Gorton could tell AV in theory that he thinks an asset he worked to acquire is being misused. They seem to sort of have a committee setup with some issues.

But yeah, ideally AV should try to mold his game into something more defined because he just doesn't seem to have the right skills to be a freewheeling jack of all trades player. Which is fine imo, plenty of guys can't and shouldn't try to play that way. The skill difference between a guy like Vesey and a guy like Miller is huge. Miller can play that type of game because he's actually well above average in nearly all aspects of the game. Vesey is big and can skate pretty well and has decent hands in close to the net. Seems fairly obvious he should be a grinder and garbage goal scorer but I think he and AV are both still holding onto this dream of him being a 50 point do everything guy.

 

[Larrybiv]

@haveandare yeah, but maybe it's not too much of a dream. I would think 40-45 would be feasible, especially if he resigns himself to being that garbage goal collector with the good hands he has. There have been many good goalscorers that have gotten many goals from not anywhere outside of 20 feet.

 

[haveandare]

@haveandare yeah, but maybe it's not too much of a dream. I would think 40-45 would be feasible, especially if he resigns himself to being that garbage goal collector with the good hands he has. There have been many good goalscorers that have gotten many goals from not anywhere outside of 20 feet.

The part about him scoring a ton playing this all over type offensive is a dream imo, but he can still maybe put up good numbers with garbage goals and play in close to the net. As you aid, lots of guys have made a lot of money doing just that. Could be a poor man's Parise type of player back when Parise was one of the better guys at putting pucks in from right around the net.

 

[NYR Viper]

If he plays a straight-ahead game, keeps it simple and plays a physical game I still think 15-15 is attainable for Vesey. He needs to learn to shoot the puck a bit more and drive to the net like he was when he first came into the league. Stop worrying about making the cute little passes and just find the best way to get the puck to the net.

 

[TheTakedown]

Yeah, I'd think so. Or maybe Gorton could tell AV in theory that he thinks an asset he worked to acquire is being misused. They seem to sort of have a committee setup with some issues.

But yeah, ideally AV should try to mold his game into something more defined because he just doesn't seem to have the right skills to be a freewheeling jack of all trades player. Which is fine imo, plenty of guys can't and shouldn't try to play that way. The skill difference between a guy like Vesey and a guy like Miller is huge. Miller can play that type of game because he's actually well above average in nearly all aspects of the game. Vesey is big and can skate pretty well and has decent hands in close to the net. Seems fairly obvious he should be a grinder and garbage goal scorer but I think he and AV are both still holding onto this dream of him being a 50 point do everything guy.

One problem I have with AV is that he tends to want *everyone* to be a 50-60 point 2 way player. it's almost like there is no point in having skill players get a lot of time in his eyes

 

[Inferno]

his balance is absolutely atrocious. he falls over on his cuts ALL THE TIME. its ridiculous that an NHL player has such poor ability to stay on his friggin feet..and its not even as if people hit him, he just...falls...for not reason.

 

[Levitate]

More than running out of time, the issue is the coach seems to think he's doing great. Gets important minutes, gets 2PP time... it's insane.

IMO he doesn't need to "develop" so much more as much as he needs to pick a style of play and focus on using his skills to best fit it. He has a lot of raw skills, just doesn't seem to know how to use them or what kind of player he is. IMO he should work on throwing the body, being quick in on the forecheck and slamming in garbage goals from the crease. He's got the size and speed for it if he'd button down and focus on it. Of course, if you're him why think about drastically changing your game when the coach seems to love your current ineffective one?

This is so dead on IMO. Vesey can control the puck pretty well and is good at creating turnovers (he hangs out in good places without the puck and picks off a lot of passes) but his ability to move the puck or get it on net after he gets it is pretty lacking compared to what he seems to be trying to do. He's often trying to hang onto the puck and make some great play but his vision is often behind the play. IMO he should be the guy who retrieves the puck, creates turnovers, then dishes it off and crashes the net looking for garbage goals or finding little spaces in front of the net for slam dunk goals etc.
He could be a real solid contributor with that style of play, but if he's going to be playing like he thinks he's Rick Nash then he's going to continue turning the puck over in the offensive zone and his point totals are going to stay low. He's not playing to his real strengths right now.

 

[Larrybiv]

Anyone else catch Sam "playing up" Vesey vs Carolina? Is this by design or do they really think he's such a good player? Ugggh.
Hey Sam, you won't increase his value based on what you say. Everyone knows you are a Homer.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

Anyone else catch Sam "playing up" Vesey vs Carolina? Is this by design or do they really think he's such a good player? Ugggh.
Hey Sam, you won't increase his value based on what you say. Everyone knows you are a Homer.

They always play up everyone... they praised Tanner Glass for years. If they’re positive about the team casual fans will think we’re better than we are.. that’s why they never call a 4th line a line with no offense. It’s a checking line that plays solid defense and like to forecheck.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Hobey Baker, American, TUFF. He's a media product, he's not any good, but he did have a very nice game yesterday.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Hobey Baker, American, TUFF. He's a media product, he's not any good, but he did have a very nice game yesterday.

He is basically Chris Drury. Except for the skillset, the tenacity, the hockey IQ, the leadership and the production. He's the forward equivalent of Matt Gilroy.

 

[Tawnos]

They always play up everyone... they praised Tanner Glass for years. If they’re positive about the team casual fans will think we’re better than we are.. that’s why they never call a 4th line a line with no offense. It’s a checking line that plays solid defense and like to forecheck.

Their job is promotion, not journalism.

 

[failure]

So, scoring 16 goals and 11 assists is considered not good and a loss for us? On an 832k contract?

 

[Harbour Dog]

He has looked so much better these past two games. Seems to be playing more straight-ahead and getting everthing to the net. I was calling for him to get scratched occasionally, but perhaps getting fourth line duty is the best thing for him to figure out how best to mold his game to this level.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

So, scoring 16 goals and 11 assists is considered not good and a loss for us? On an 832k contract?

Yeah, it kind of isn't. A forward who can't hit 30 points isn't a top 9 forward. The price doesn't matter, we are trying to win games. We don't have such salary cap problems that we need to put such unproductive players out there.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Yeah, it kind of isn't. A forward who can't hit 30 points isn't a top 9 forward. The price doesn't matter, we are trying to win games. We don't have such salary cap problems that we need to put such unproductive players out there.

I guess your boy Buchnevich isn't a top 9 player either than and should be kicked off the team. His fragile body didn't allow him to play a full season and only recorded 20 points last year. But he gets a pass with your wacky reasoning right?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I shouldn't even respond because you are trying to mislead on purpose, but I clearly meant per 82 games, like I always mean when I talk about scoring for players. Vesey played 80 games, he played a full season.

 

[mrmovies779]

So, scoring 16 goals and 11 assists is considered not good and a loss for us? On an 832k contract?

It is here with some

 

[The Crypto Guy]

edit - Forget it. It's not even worth arguing with him.

 

[Vitto79]

Jimmy is what he is, I’m good with a free 3rd / 4th line guy. He has his moments

 

[Kovalev27]

Jimmy is what he is, I’m good with a free 3rd / 4th line guy. He has his moments

Agreed have zero problem with him in that role. He’s a hard nosed player finishes his checks and can score a little. He’s the worst passer in the league though. He needs to be better defensively so he can be relied on but fine with what he brings. Free prospect that’s playing fine

 

[Bob Richards]

Good stuff, James.

 

[Inferno]

I don't care if he scored and had the shootout winner...he had a miserable game...how he got promoted is beyond me. Turnover machine . blind passes for rushes against and awful decisions with the puck...hate that he gets accolades for such an abysmal game.