Jimmy Howard

BeersHockey

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Jun 15, 2011
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Howard is a goalie that plays better the more he plays. Will never be a guy that wows you splitting time, which could be bad on two fronts - 1) makes him bigger injury concern; 2) Wings might be forced to make a tough decision before they really know if Mrazek or Paterson are capable replacements.
 

Huddy*

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Aug 6, 2009
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He will be another Chris Osgood. I dont know if he will reach the # of wins Ozzie had, but Howard is a gamer and has the will to win, just like Osgood..He wont be elite, but will be near it if he stays healthy
 

WingedWheel1987

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Jan 11, 2011
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Howard is a goalie that plays better the more he plays. Will never be a guy that wows you splitting time, which could be bad on two fronts - 1) makes him bigger injury concern; 2) Wings might be forced to make a tough decision before they really know if Mrazek or Paterson are capable replacements.

An injury prone goalie who is only good if he plays 60+ games should be let go. I am not saying he is injury prone, but if your assessment is correct, how can you sign him long term?

There is nothing special about Jimmy Howard. He benefitted from playing on a team with elite two way forwards and Lidstrom. He wasn't good enough to put the team over the hump in the playoffs when Z/Datsyuk are being shutdown because Johan Franzen too is busy driving his Dodge Ram to the bank to deposit his stolen paychecks and Valtteri Flippula is doing his best Casper the Friendly Ghost impression.

Chris Osgood was capable of doing that. He isn't a HOF goalie, but I would take him over Howard if I can pick prime Ozzie.

Good not great seems like a fair assessment of Jimmy Howard. He certainly isn't elite and should not be paid an elite salary. Ondrej Pavelec's contract for less years is what he is worth. Pavelec got ridiculously overpaid.

Steve Mason put up great stats that one year too. I don't care what Howard's GAA or S% is if he isn't healthy enough to be as effective in the playoffs like he was in a regular season game in November.
 
Aug 6, 2012
10,752
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An injury prone goalie who is only good if he plays 60+ games should be let go. I am not saying he is injury prone, but if your assessment is correct, how can you sign him long term?

There is nothing special about Jimmy Howard. He benefitted from playing on a team with elite two way forwards and Lidstrom. He wasn't good enough to put the team over the hump in the playoffs when Z/Datsyuk are being shutdown because Johan Franzen too is busy driving his Dodge Ram to the bank to deposit his stolen paychecks and Valtteri Flippula is doing his best Casper the Friendly Ghost impression.

Chris Osgood was capable of doing that. He isn't a HOF goalie, but I would take him over Howard if I can pick prime Ozzie.

Good not great seems like a fair assessment of Jimmy Howard. He certainly isn't elite and should not be paid an elite salary. Ondrej Pavelec's contract for less years is what he is worth. Pavelec got ridiculously overpaid.

Steve Mason put up great stats that one year too. I don't care what Howard's GAA or S% is if he isn't healthy enough to be as effective in the playoffs like he was in a regular season game in November.

I wouldn't compare Howard to Mason. Jimmy has had two great years not one phenomenal year.
 

Run the Jewels

Make Detroit Great Again
Jun 22, 2006
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I wouldn't compare Howard to Mason. Jimmy has had two great years not one phenomenal year.

Yeah, first of all Osgood is a HoF goalie. He doesn't get his due in Detroit but I honestly do think he secured his legacy with the 2008 and 2009 performances in the playoffs. He wins the Conn Smythe in '09 if Datsyuk and Lidstrom aren't injured as there's no way we lose with both those guys at full speed.

Howard has proven himself at every level: NCAA, AHL and the NHL. People can whine all they want but he certainly didn't have much talent surrounding him in the AHL or NCAA. Anyone who pretends these past few Wings squads were anything like those HoF laden squads during the heyday of the 90s to early 00s is beyond reason. :shakehead
 

Heaton

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Feb 13, 2004
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I think Howard has shown his abilities in the playoffs, especially against the Sharks when forcing a game 7 after being down 0-3.

I think he's easily a top 12 goalie in the league, but I don't ever see him becoming elite. I also don't think this league has very many elite goalies as it stands. Howard has played on some of the weakest Wings teams in a long time - so I'd like to see what he can do if this team ever gets back to dominance.
 

WingedWheel1987

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Jan 11, 2011
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Yeah, first of all Osgood is a HoF goalie. He doesn't get his due in Detroit but I honestly do think he secured his legacy with the 2008 and 2009 performances in the playoffs. He wins the Conn Smythe in '09 if Datsyuk and Lidstrom aren't injured as there's no way we lose with both those guys at full speed.

Howard has proven himself at every level: NCAA, AHL and the NHL. People can whine all they want but he certainly didn't have much talent surrounding him in the AHL or NCAA. Anyone who pretends these past few Wings squads were anything like those HoF laden squads during the heyday of the 90s to early 00s is beyond reason. :shakehead

I agree that the Wings are no longer what they used to be, but the team was good enough to win if they have an elite goalie the past few years. If Howard is elite, he needs to be the difference maker and he has not proven capable of doing so in the playoffs.

Obviously you exclude his rookie year because it's unfair to ask him to do so much his first year, but the second Sharks series and the Preds series saw him give up some brutal goals and make some amazing saves. He simply isn't elite.

You really havent proven yourself if you lose in the second round.

Good not great. He is easily good enough to win a cup on your more traditional Wings team. Moving forward, i really have a hard time seeing him win a cup as a goaltender of the Detroit Red Wings unless some major additions are made to the blue line and top six of the offense. If you want to argue he is elite, after this season is cancelled, next year will be his litmus test to prove that he is elite.

12-15 range of goaltenders.

As for Osgood, agree to disagree.
 

Crymson

Fire Holland
May 23, 2010
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An injury prone goalie who is only good if he plays 60+ games should be let go. I am not saying he is injury prone, but if your assessment is correct, how can you sign him long term?

There is nothing special about Jimmy Howard. He benefitted from playing on a team with elite two way forwards and Lidstrom. He wasn't good enough to put the team over the hump in the playoffs when Z/Datsyuk are being shutdown because Johan Franzen too is busy driving his Dodge Ram to the bank to deposit his stolen paychecks and Valtteri Flippula is doing his best Casper the Friendly Ghost impression.

Chris Osgood was capable of doing that. He isn't a HOF goalie, but I would take him over Howard if I can pick prime Ozzie.

Good not great seems like a fair assessment of Jimmy Howard. He certainly isn't elite and should not be paid an elite salary. Ondrej Pavelec's contract for less years is what he is worth. Pavelec got ridiculously overpaid.

Steve Mason put up great stats that one year too. I don't care what Howard's GAA or S% is if he isn't healthy enough to be as effective in the playoffs like he was in a regular season game in November.

I was about to write up a reasoned response to that, but then I realized how silly it would be to waste that time. You're even more negative than mindfly, which should be impossible but is apparently not.

I think Howard has shown his abilities in the playoffs, especially against the Sharks when forcing a game 7 after being down 0-3.

He played brilliantly in that entire series. He came very close to stealing games one and two for the Wings, and he was most certainly the MVP of game five.

I think he's easily a top 12 goalie in the league, but I don't ever see him becoming elite. I also don't think this league has very many elite goalies as it stands. Howard has played on some of the weakest Wings teams in a long time - so I'd like to see what he can do if this team ever gets back to dominance.

He's good enough to give them a chance to win every game, and is capable of brilliance over moderate stretches. I'd place him in the top then. He's one step below elite.
 
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WingedWheel1987

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Jan 11, 2011
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You were about to write a reasoned response but soon realized you had no response at all so you tried pretending you could contribute to the conversation but are too smart/better than me to sink to my level. Howard was not good after his injury. If he can't stay healty, he is pretty useless. It took him far too long to recover and he never got back his midseason form. I am not going to give him a gold star for last season. Sorry, but he doesnt deserve it.

Only on HFBoards is calling a goalie good not great is me being pessimistic/negative.

You wanna see an elite goalie, look at Pekka Rinne. He is a workhorse who is also consistent.

Howard certainly doesnt fit that bill.

Jimmy Howard = Anti Niemi

A goalie good enough not to lose a cup on a stacked team, but not good enough to carry a decent team to a cup.
 
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FissionFire

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Dec 22, 2006
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An injury prone goalie who is only good if he plays 60+ games should be let go. I am not saying he is injury prone, but if your assessment is correct, how can you sign him long term?

There is nothing special about Jimmy Howard. He benefitted from playing on a team with elite two way forwards and Lidstrom. He wasn't good enough to put the team over the hump in the playoffs when Z/Datsyuk are being shutdown because Johan Franzen too is busy driving his Dodge Ram to the bank to deposit his stolen paychecks and Valtteri Flippula is doing his best Casper the Friendly Ghost impression.

Chris Osgood was capable of doing that. He isn't a HOF goalie, but I would take him over Howard if I can pick prime Ozzie.

Good not great seems like a fair assessment of Jimmy Howard. He certainly isn't elite and should not be paid an elite salary. Ondrej Pavelec's contract for less years is what he is worth. Pavelec got ridiculously overpaid.

Steve Mason put up great stats that one year too. I don't care what Howard's GAA or S% is if he isn't healthy enough to be as effective in the playoffs like he was in a regular season game in November.

When did Chris Osgood ever carry the team in the playoffs? I don't remember him ever stealing wins or playoff rounds. He just wouldn't lose games, but he never really won the games the team should have lost either.
 

WingedWheel1987

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Jan 11, 2011
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When did Chris Osgood ever carry the team in the playoffs? I don't remember him ever stealing wins or playoff rounds. He just wouldn't lose games, but he never really won the games the team should have lost either.

He was pretty damn good in the 09 Finals.

Stepping up in the middle of the first round in 08 was pretty special too.

I don't disagree with your assessment for the most part.
 

InjuredChoker

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Dec 25, 2011
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You were about to write a reasoned response but soon realized you had no response at all so you tried pretending you could contribute to the conversation but are too smart/better than me to sink to my level. Howard was not good after his injury. If he can't stay healty, he is pretty useless. It took him far too long to recover and he never got back his midseason form. I am not going to give him a gold star for last season. Sorry, but he doesnt deserve it.

Only on HFBoards is calling a goalie good not great is me being pessimistic/negative.

You wanna see an elite goalie, look at Pekka Rinne. He is a workhorse who is also consistent.

Howard certainly doesnt fit that bill.

Jimmy Howard = Anti Niemi

A goalie good enough not to lose a cup on a stacked team, but not good enough to carry a decent team to a cup.

Anti Niemi? So nothing like Niemi?

:sarcasm:
 

LeighDx59

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Nov 23, 2011
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Detroit, MI
You really havent proven yourself if you lose in the second round.

You were about to write a reasoned response but soon realized you had no response at all so you tried pretending you could contribute to the conversation but are too smart/better than me to sink to my level. Howard was not good after his injury. If he can't stay healty, he is pretty useless. It took him far too long to recover and he never got back his midseason form. I am not going to give him a gold star for last season. Sorry, but he doesnt deserve it.

Only on HFBoards is calling a goalie good not great is me being pessimistic/negative.

You wanna see an elite goalie, look at Pekka Rinne. He is a workhorse who is also consistent.

Howard certainly doesnt fit that bill.

Jimmy Howard = Anti Niemi

A goalie good enough not to lose a cup on a stacked team, but not good enough to carry a decent team to a cup.

I don't know how you can call Rinne elite right now using that logic then. Nashville hasn't been able to make it out of the second round even with Weber and Suter in front of Rinne this past season. He is a good goalie no doubt, but you can't call him elite just yet. Luongo? sure he's been to the Finals. Lundqvist? has been to the Eastern Conference Finals. Rinne isn't there yet.

And don't mistaken me for saying Jimmy is elite either. At the moment he isn't there yet and has some work to do yet but I can see Jimmy down the road helping us to a Stanley Cup.
 

Mister Ed

Registered User
Dec 21, 2008
5,254
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Howard has proven himself at every level: NCAA, AHL and the NHL. People can whine all they want but he certainly didn't have much talent surrounding him in the AHL or NCAA. Anyone who pretends these past few Wings squads were anything like those HoF laden squads during the heyday of the 90s to early 00s is beyond reason. :shakehead

citizen_cane.gif


Howard has won the Wings's game, single-handedly (sorry about the spelling) and is getting better each year. He's only 28, and goalies usually hit their top years around 28-32ish. He's been good, and will continue to be good, which is why the Wings need to sign him in July.
 

RedWingsNow*

Guest
Wow. Why do people get so defensive.
Except for WW87, nobody is being harsh about Howard.
 

WingedWheel1987

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Jan 11, 2011
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Make no mistake, I definitely think Pekka Rinne is a far superior goaltender compared to Jimmy Howard, but i didnt see the Predators as contenders with that awful group of forwards so me calling him elite even though he hasnt gotten past the second round is because of how much talent he is surrounded by compared to Howard.

I dont hold Rinne up to the same standards as Howard because Rinne was on a team that just wasnt good enough to go deep in the playoffs up until this year, but they got beat by a hot goalie. **** happens and that's why you have to make the most of your very tiny window. Preds are probably back to square one since Weber's contract probably eats up their entire salary for the year and their cup dreams should be put on hold indefinitely.

Wings had Lidstrom (albeit in a diminished capacity), Z and Datsyuk. Howard before this year still had a top five offense and a top ten defense to work with. He didn't steal the series against the Sharks, which is something an elite goalie should have done considering how great the team in front of him was and how crappy/injury riddled the Sharks were.

Howard has definitely been on the least talented teams assembled by the Wings organization in quite a while, but those teams were still good enough to win and an elite goalie would have definitely been able to carry them over the finish line.

I hope you guys understand i am arguing Howard is not elite, not whether he is good or bad. I dont see how you can possibly say Howard is elite. I do think he is good, but i don't think he is good enough to be the straw that stirs the drink on this team, which is the vibe i have been getting about Howard.
 

The Zetterberg Era

Ball Hockey Sucks
Nov 8, 2011
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I hope you guys understand i am arguing Howard is not elite, not whether he is good or bad. I dont see how you can possibly say Howard is elite. I do think he is good, but i don't think he is good enough to be the straw that stirs the drink on this team, which is the vibe i have been getting about Howard.

I understand what you're saying, I just think for some of us he was crucial to the first half the season and you could in fact argue he was the straw for that time period. The question then becomes was that a sign of things to come or just an incredibly hot streak for him? Some will want to see it as a sign of what to expect. I honestly don't know, I believe he is good enough to steal games and have seen him do it from time to time in the regular season. But in Detroit it will always (or at least has been for 20 years) be about the playoffs. The people that want to take shots at him have ammo there and I understand their points. But I am not worried about Howard, I think he has played well enough to win some big games and didn't get the help up front I truly expected. I have far more concerns about the D core and some of the aging forward group. What concerns me about this team isn't Howard and I hope he doesn't prove that wrong. But elite is top 5 and while you could make that argument for about four months last year he has to do it for longer to pound your fist on the table and declare him elite. There are 30 starting jobs so for me like I said elite means top 5, I don't think you can argue he has earned that title yet.
 

Debrincat93

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Dec 4, 2002
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Nhl.com
He will be another Chris Osgood. I dont know if he will reach the # of wins Ozzie had, but Howard is a gamer and has the will to win, just like Osgood..He wont be elite, but will be near it if he stays healthy

This.
He's going to probably end up as one of the better goalies of our lifetime to wear the Winged Wheel and no matter how much he wins, he won't get the recognition, much like Osgood, that he deserves.
 

waltdetroit

Registered User
Jul 20, 2010
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How many goalies starting last year would be considered elite? In 60 years, wings have had Sawchuk & Hasek (tho most of Hasek's work was in Buf) and maybe 1 or 2 others who I would call elite. Oz & Howie are B+ or A-, just not A+++
 

Henkka

Registered User
Jan 31, 2004
31,077
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Henrik Lundqvist
Jonathan Quick
Tim Thomas
Pekka Rinne
Roberto Luongo

These are current elite goalies that have most solid effort from last three years. Howard is in the next group that consists about ~10 goalies. "Better than average" -class.

Luongo and Thomas are first ones who in the future are dropping out from that group and Carey Price, Corey Schneider, Cam Ward and Tuukka Rask are the most probable to jump in. I don't believe Howard will ever hit to the elite group, but he's just fine at the ~Top6-15.
 
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Bench

3 is a good start
Aug 14, 2011
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Henrik Lundqvist
Jonathan Quick
Tim Thomas
Pekka Rinne
Roberto Luongo

These are current elite goalies that have most solid effort from last three years. Howard is in the next group that consists about ~10 goalies. "Better than average" -class.

That's pretty accurate. I've related him to Kari Lehtonen a lot, who I think is also in that same group of not quite elite goaltenders, but a cut above most.

Kari got $6 million a year before the lockout started. Expect that to be the benchmark contract Howard's agent uses.
 

WingedWheel1987

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Jan 11, 2011
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That's pretty accurate. I've related him to Kari Lehtonen a lot, who I think is also in that same group of not quite elite goaltenders, but a cut above most.

Kari got $6 million a year before the lockout started. Expect that to be the benchmark contract Howard's agent uses.

There is no chance in hell Jimmy Howard is getting six million dollars.

Ken Holland overvalues his home grown talent, but he hasn't gone completely senile.

Howard should be in the same range as Ondrej Pavelec who got ridiculously overpaid for doing absolutely nothing. four million per year for three or four years.
 
Aug 6, 2012
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5
There is no chance in hell Jimmy Howard is getting six million dollars.

Ken Holland overvalues his home grown talent, but he hasn't gone completely senile.

Howard should be in the same range as Ondrej Pavelec who got ridiculously overpaid for doing absolutely nothing. four million per year for three or four years.

I see him getting around $4.5 million per year.
 

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