Jim Coleman Conference Finals: Pittsburgh Bankers (1) vs Kenora Thistles (1)

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"You're a boring old man"
Jun 18, 2013
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So am I.



Phil Kessel is, at best, the 5th most important player to the Pens, after Crosby, Malkin, Letang and Murray. There is a chasm of a difference between Phil Kessel and Wayne Gretzky with respect to the importance of each player to their team.

Personally, if I drafted Wayne, I would target a very specific subset of coaches because it's so important for the coach to mesh well with him.

Well as I correctly pointed out Gorman was the best coach available and finding a specific coach that fit Gretzky like a glove would have meant, one, much of the rest of my roster would have suffered, and two, I would have had to select a coach who was clearly inferior to Gorman. I would have had a heavily offensive slanted coach and I'd be arguing why numerous other players didn't fit perfectly....

At the end of the day I went with the coach who was the best available (11th coach taken), was extremely player friendly and beyond coaching built rosters for numerous Cup teams between the early 20s and mid 40s that varied in style and skill set.
 

Dreakmur

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Mar 25, 2008
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I just think you’re really high in Gorman. He’s one he’s of the many mediocre coaches who should be selected based on fit rather than all time ranking. Once you get past the first handful of elites, coaches really blend together. What makes Gorman better than the undefeated Jack Adams?
 

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"You're a boring old man"
Jun 18, 2013
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I just think you’re really high in Gorman. He’s one he’s of the many mediocre coaches who should be selected based on fit rather than all time ranking. Once you get past the first handful of elites, coaches really blend together. What makes Gorman better than the undefeated Jack Adams?

It's like we discussed with Babcock last series. Gorman was an amazing judge of talent, a guy who literally got everything out of his players, made even the subs feel like a million bucks, kept things loose, and most importantly won multiple Cups with a pair of really, really subpar teams. His record improves considerably in the postseason which I like to see.

Jack Adams was a micromanaging asshole. :laugh:
 

Dreakmur

Registered User
Mar 25, 2008
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Orillia, Ontario
It's like we discussed with Babcock last series. Gorman was an amazing judge of talent, a guy who literally got everything out of his players, made even the subs feel like a million bucks, kept things loose, and most importantly won multiple Cups with a pair of really, really subpar teams.

Why did he only coach 8 seasons?

His record improves considerably in the postseason which I like to see.

With such a small sample size, and so few actually series', it doesn't mean as much to me as it apparently does to you.

Jack Adams was a micromanaging *******. :laugh:

Yet, he accomplished more.....
 

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"You're a boring old man"
Jun 18, 2013
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Why did he only coach 8 seasons?



With such a small sample size, and so few actually series', it doesn't mean as much to me as it apparently does to you.



Yet, he accomplished more.....


1. He was involved in an array of other things beyond hockey, including being a huge reason why the NHL was created in the first place. And I think managing teams was probably a greater passion for him given his legendary success at it. I think it's pretty remarkable that a man with no ice hockey playing experience was able to the things he did as a manager AND coach. General overview from Wiki:



Even though he had never played hockey, Mr. Gorman was a talented evaluator of talent. Ted Dey, principal owner of the Ottawa Senators of the National Hockey Association, had trouble recruiting players for the 1916–17 season and hired Mr. Gorman to do the task. He did it so capably that he was hired as secretary-treasurer.

In November 1917, Gorman, George Kennedy, Sam Lichtenhein and Mike Quinn all played a part in suspending the NHA and forming the National Hockey League in an effort to rid themselves of Toronto NHA owner Eddie Livingstone. Gorman became the manager and part-owner of the Senators at that time. He helped lead the team to Stanley Cups in 1920, 1921, and 1923. He sold his interest in the Senators in 1925 to Frank Ahearn and became manager-coach of the New York Americans, introducing professional hockey to New York City.


New York Americans visit to Tijuana, Mexico in April 1926. Gorman is second from left, front row.

He resigned from the Americans in 1929 to get involved in horse racing. He managed the Agua Caliente Racetrack in Mexico from 1929 until 1932.[2] In 1932, Gorman brought the horse Phar Lap to Mexico where the horse won the $100,000 Agua Caliente Handicap before dying under mysterious circumstances in San Francisco. When the president of Agua Caliente sold the racetrack in 1932, Gorman was briefly out of sports.

Late in the 1932–33 season, he was hired as coach of the Chicago Black Hawks and became general manager as well the following season, building a defensive squad around Lionel Conacher and goalie Charlie Gardiner. He took the team from last place in their division in 1932–33 to their first Stanley Cup victory in 1934—despite scoring the fewest goals of any NHL team. Ten days after the Cup victory, Gorman resigned after a dispute with the owner. He went to Montreal as their manager-coach and helped the Montreal Maroons to their final Cup in 1935, thus becoming the first (and only) coach to win consecutive Stanley Cups with different teams. Gorman coached the Maroons until the club folded in 1938. In 1940, he became general manager of the Montreal Canadiens and lead them to Cup victories in 1944 and 1946. He is the only person to manage four different teams to championships: the Senators, Black Hawks, Maroons and Canadiens. No other General Manager in the history of the NHL, Major League Baseball, the National Football League, or the National Basketball Association has won championships with four different teams.


Gorman was also a promoter. One of his flops was after he became manager-coach of the Montreal Maroons when he booked evangelist Aimee Semple McPherson at the Montreal Forum. Few people came. "No one wanted to be saved," he explained.[2] However, some of his better promotions came when he was the Montreal Canadiens general manager. He had Duke Ellington and Frank Sinatra perform at the Forum.

After retiring as general manager of the Canadiens in 1946, Gorman bought the Ottawa Senators of the Quebec Senior Hockey League, managing it to win the Allan Cup in 1949. He took figure skater Barbara Ann Scott on a continental tour after she won the figure skating gold medal at the 1948 Winter Olympics. Gorman revived professional wrestling in Montreal and promoted it in Ottawa, and introduced professional baseball to Ottawa in 1951 with the Ottawa Giants of the International League.

In 1937, he took over management of the Connaught Park Racetrack, a horse race track in Aylmer QC, near Ottawa, of which he had been a part-owner since 1925. Gorman was managing the race track when he died of cancer at a hospital in Ottawa at the age of 74.[3] He was the last living founder of the NHL. He has been inducted into the Hockey Hall of Fame (1963), the Ottawa Sports Hall of Fame (1966), and the Canadian Horse Racing Hall of Fame (1977)


2. Considering he only coached 8 years and had 2 of the worst franchises in the league at his disposal I'd say he did exceptionally well.


3. Jack Adams also coached forever, was barely above .500 in his regular season career and exactly .500 in the postseason. He only accomplished "more" if you look at raw numbers without context IMO.
 

Dreakmur

Registered User
Mar 25, 2008
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Orillia, Ontario
1. He was involved in an array of other things beyond hockey, including being a huge reason why the NHL was created in the first place. And I think managing teams was probably a greater passion for him given his legendary success at it. I think it's pretty remarkable that a man with no ice hockey playing experience was able to the things he did as a manager AND coach.

What he did as a manager is meaningless for me. What he did as a racetrack owner means less.

2. Considering he only coached 8 years and had 2 of the worst franchises in the league at his disposal I'd say he did exceptionally well.

Coaching bad teams does make it more impressive.... short career doesn't.

3. Jack Adams also coached forever, was barely above .500 in his regular season career and exactly .500 in the postseason. He only accomplished "more" if you look at raw numbers without context IMO.

Coaching longer is a good thing, not bad. Should we take Jack Adam's best 8 years and compare them to Gorman's 8?
 

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"You're a boring old man"
Jun 18, 2013
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What is less then meaningless? :laugh:;)

No point in keeping this up sir. You think Gorman is overrated, I think he was a visionary and one of the great leaders behind the bench. Reading his profiles that are available paint him a very good light when it comes to getting the maximum out of much less than others had.
 

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