Jim Coleman Conference Finals: Pittsburgh Bankers (1) vs Kenora Thistles (1)

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"You're a boring old man"
Jun 18, 2013
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A


Yeah, I agree.

It's been a long time since I've seen a somewhat successful ATD team with such a discord between coach and players. Wayne Gretzky and Nels Stewart the top 2 centers playing a forechecking defensive system?

I mean, Gorman was a smart guy and all; it's not certain he would have insisted on using the same system he is known for. But without that system, he's kind of an unknown as a coach, right?

Don't make me laugh. You're seriously going to throw that garbage out there when anyone with a little bit of time can go back throughout the ATD and find numerous teams that didn't have good fits, coach to roster. In the ATD summary you said you wanted to not face people posting disingenuous information, then please, practice what you preach, in a thread that doesn't involve your team.

1, you cited 2 players. 2. I can point to almost any team and find a player who doesn't fit the coach to a T, sans maybe somebody playing for a Toe Blake who coached multiple styles.

And two, you ignore the fact that Wayne Gretzky is the greatest player of all time, especially come the postseason. Period. Saying Gorman wouldn't have use for him or enjoy having that kind of dominance is beyond asinine. Scotty Bowman wouldn't have the nuts to put Gretzky out to pasture at his peak.

And three, since when do centers have to do the heavy lifting, on the scoring line, as fore checkers? Also, since when did C's become the only part of a defensive system?

The Bankers are littered with players who Gorman would love to coach. Foyston, Giroux, Broadbent, Kennedy, Westfall, anyone on the 4th line. The defensive corps is disconnected how? Having the best netminder of all time behind all of that?
 

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"You're a boring old man"
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Anyone who wants well-cited sources as to Nels Stewart's negative can look at his wikipedia page: Nels Stewart - Wikipedia

It also includes info I didn't know - Stewart apparently helped train Ted Kennedy, a fellow slow skater.

What is your point? I have FAR more in my bio on Nels Stewart, a mountain of evidence nobody else cared to dig up in a decade of doing the ATD, that greatly softens the blow regarding his defensive game AND speed.

Ted Kennedy had a pretty f***ing great career didn't he? I guess Nels Stewart did something right, didn't he?
 

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"You're a boring old man"
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I suggest reading the shitload of information on Stewart's defensive game and then find me players from the 20's and 30's who had more written about it in a positive light. I'll wait.

Also, Toe Blake literally flat out refuted that Stewart was a slow skater. That's straight from the mouth of one of the greatest coaches of all time who would have seen Stewart play quite a bit. I guess he's full of shit?

The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search
Beliveau has often been likened to the late Nels Stewart. Toe Blake was asked if Stewart was a slow skater, as has been alleged.

"I've heard that and it wasn't true," he said. "You couldn't catch him from behind. He didn't look to be going fast because he took those long strides. Beliveau is like that, too."




Nels Stewart, C/LW

5727-1295470Fr.jpg



Awards and Achievements

2 x Hart Trophy Winner(1926, 1930)
1 x Stanley Cup Champion(1926)
1 x Retro Conn Smythe Winner(1926)
1 x Retro Art Ross Winner(1926)
2 x Retro Maurice Richard Trophy Winner(1926, 1937)

Scoring
Ranking Finishes:
Goals: 1st(1926), 1st(1937), 2nd(1929), 3rd(1928), 3rd(1934), 4th(1930), 4th(1931),5th(1935), 7th(1932), 8th(1927), 8th(1938), 9th(1933), 9th(1939), 15th(1936),

Assists: 6th(1926), 8th(1928), 11th(1931), 12th(1934), 14th(1928), 14th(1933), 18th(1939), 19th(1930), 20th(1935), 22nd(1936), T-25th(1938),

Points: 1st(1926), 2nd(1929), 4th(1934), 5th(1928), 6th(1930), 7th(1931), 8th(1937), 9th(1933), 10th(1935), 10th(1938), 15th(1939(, 17th(1932), 17th(1936), 18th(1927)


Long-Term Percentages
From 1926-1940 (career), Nels Stewart is 1st in goals(141% of 2nd place Morenz), 4th in assists(93% of 2nd place H.Smith in 6 more games), and 1st in points(123% of 2nd place Morenz).

He is 2nd in GPG(only a 200+ less game Conacher is ahead), T-34th APG, and 6th in PPG(playing at least 150 games more than everyone ahead of him)

From 1926-1936 (10-year peak), Nels Stewart is 1st in goals(114% of Bill Cook in 25 more games), 8th in assists(77% of 2nd place Joe Primeau), and 2nd in points (1 less point than 1st place Morenz playing 12 more games)

He is 2nd in GPG (to Conacher who played over 100 games less), T-23rd in APG, 4th in PPG amongst 100+ game players(playing 100 or more games than everyone ahead of him except Morenz)

From 1926-1931 (5-year peak), Stewart is 2nd in goals(3 less than Morenz playing 7 more games), 8th in assists(80% of 2nd place Morenz), and 2nd in points(17 less than Morenz in 7 more games)



Changing the narrative on Stewart's 2 biggest "negatives":

There are generally 2 big knocks against Stewart. One, his skating and speed is often cited as being terrible (more on that later). The second is he was a zero sum player defensively. Somebody that should be viewed in the Bill Cowley or Gordie Drillon tier, which is about as bad as you can get. The following accounts should change that mindset to one degree or another. After going through the vast majority of available game reports here is what I unearthed about Stewart's abilities to play a strong defensive game from C/W.


Nels Stewart surprisingly good defensively throughout his Montreal Maroon days. Almost all of these quotes have not been brought forth previously:


Dec 2 1925: Montreal Gazette: Stewart called a power in defensive play at center ice
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search
"Babe Seibert established himself as the hero of the night along with Nelson Stewart. The playing of this pair was as effective as it was varied. Siebert, the aggressive type, a husky young who works diligently, speedily and fairly cleverly, while Stewart, though not so flashy, is absolutely finished in his play; tricky, deceptive in attack and a power in defensive play at center ice."


Dec 4 1925 Montreal Gazette: Maroon forwards noted for bottling up the speed of the Canadians before it could get going. Sounds like the Maroon forwards fore checked hard and played up aggressively against an elite squad, featuring Morenz.
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search
"Canadians offensive strength was in the brilliant individual efforts of Morenz and Billy Boucher the latter going through practically the entire struggle without rest and without penalty. This pair were dazzling in their speed, but they were too closely checked to get their combination play going. Montreal forwards played out for the Canadian rushes and as often as possible, checked Canadian's speed before it could get going."


Dec 17 1925: Montreal Gazette: Stewart again cited for defense
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search
"Nelson Stewart was conspicuous by his breaking-up of Pirate attacks, although he failed to score, he figured on the offense considerably."


Dec 24 1925: Montreal Gazette: Stewart and Reg Noble figured in continually stopping Pirates attacks
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search
"but the trickiest of play by such deceptive stars as Reg Noble and Nelson Stewart was as naught to this fighting aggregation. They stemmed attacks and carried the play to the other end, only to have to start all over again. And so the battle waged up and down the ice, with the crowd in an uproar as speed was pitted against a machine."


Jan 20 1926 Montreal Gazette: Stewart noted for great defense, poke checking many attacks away at center ice.
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search
"The Maroons set their great defense to work in the final period with a one goal margin in their favor. Nels Stewart poked many an attack to the boards at center ice."


Jan 26 1926 Montreal Gazette: Stewart steals puck from Simpson and passes out to Broadbent.
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search
"Mickey Roach substituted for Burch. Stewart cleverly robbed Simpsons and sending out to Broadbent, who steer the puck into the net, but the referee ruled offside."


Feb 3 1926: Montreal Gazette: Stewart noted as being strong point of Montreal defense, scores a SH goal and poke check was in great form
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search
"Montreal adopted different tactics from those used in previous games this season. The forwards did not chase the puck around the opposing goal with the same persistence, but rather fell back to meet the return rush. The switch gave Nelson Stewart an opportunity to star in a new role. After a rush, instead of chasing the puck carrier on the return journey back, Stewart immediately dropped behind to mid ice and awaited the rush. Attack after attack he broke up with his sweeping stick and a judicious use of his skates and body. His work as a strong point of the Montreal defensive bulwark."

"Munro drew the first penalty for elbowing Joliat. He had hardly climbed into the bench, when Nels Stewart stole the puck. The Maroon center swerved by Morenz, completely tricking the Canadian center and shot past Coutu to find the corner of the net. It was a brilliant play especially coming when the Maroons were short."

"With Siebert and Noble in the penalty box Montreal was sent on the defnsive. Montreal ragged and the crowd roared its disapproval. Nelson Stewart's poke check was greatly in evidence."


Feb 24 1926 Montreal Gazette: Stewart among multiple Maroon players who thwarted attacks.
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search
"The game was another fast, rugged contest. Players were spilled right and left as dash after dash ended against heavy body checking. Siebert, Stewart and Munro were deadly in dropping Ottawa attackers."

"Stewart was the same crafty leader. He held his own in attack and showed early willingness to get back with Broadbent and cover up the right defense,
where Kitchen was filling Noble's place."

"The Maroon center was fairly scintillating in attack. He was tireless in his work and was of inestimable help to the Maroon defense."


Feb 27 1926 Montreal Gazette: Stewart, in a loss, cited for playing great defense despite being bottled up offensively.
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search
"Stewart was unable to accomplish on the offense, being constantly covered. He was doing fine work on the defense and was instrumental in stopping frequent rushes."


Mar2 22 1926 Montreal Gazette: Stewart, shifted to D in 2nd period, cited for strong pokechecking. FIRST ROUND OF PLAYOFFS

The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search
Holway's defense was not to strong in the opening period, so manager Eddie Gerard shifted Nelson Stewart to Dunc Monro's defensive post and he remained there until the end of the game. Stewart's poke checking stood out.


Mar 31 1926 Montreal Gazette: SCF Game 1, Stewart is a monster offensively, defensively, quoted as playing a fast game, etc
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search
"Stewart fairly towered over the pother players on the ice, and he was alone worth the victory which the local team scored in the game under eastern rules. The Victoria defensive was baffled by the rangy Maroon star. His crafty style of play was something new to them, and they failed to solve his tactics. This player, recently judged the most useful man to his club in the NHL accounted for two goals, the first and last of the game, and both tallies were out of the ordinary. The first, which came after two minutes of play in the initial period was a novel counter, the like of which is seldom witnessed in hockey. Stewart cleared a Victoria rush from close to Benedict's cage. He rushed through the Victoria players at mid ice with long swerving strokes and when he reached the defense, poked the puck through Loughlin. Stewart attempted to round the Victoria captain and defenseman but was spilled face down and full length on the ice....."

"Stewart's second goal came in from the third period less than four minutes from the end of the game. He cleared a rush by Frederickson and started for the Victoria end. He tore down the right wing and Babe Siebert flashed up on the left. At the defense Stewart gave Siebert the puck. The hero of Montreal's league title victory rushed in until almost even with the Victoria net. Stewart was following in fast on the cage and Siebert whipped him a pass. The Maroon star took it in full flight and did not give Holmes a chance to act against the flip from 2 feet out. It was a beautiful play."

"Seibert, Stewart and Broadbent rushed in turn. Then Stewart came down in a tricky rush through center. He evaded the Victoria outer guard, and then slipped the puck past Loughlin. He attempted to recover the disc, but fell. While sliding along the ice, face down, Stewart reached out with his stick, and pushed the puck behind Holmes, who had rushed out from his net to clear. The trick, a novel one, was done in two minutes."
"Frederickson made gallant efforts to get through the Maroon defense. He hit them from every angle and at every pace but Noble and Stewart kept him out. Benedict was having a soft time in the Maroon net."

"Stewart intercepted Fraser's pass to Hart and a dangerous rush by the westerners was wrecked.
Stewart and Phillips took play to Holmes net, where they were joined by Dinsmore. All three started to snipe at the Victoria goalie but were thwarted by the brilliant play of Holmes."

"One of the smartest plays of the night brought a third goal Montreal about five minutes before the end of the game. Stewart cleared when Frederickson fell in rushing. The Maroon start tore down right wing. He gave Siebert a pass. The latter rushed in and whipped the puck back to Stewart at the goal mouth. Traveling like lightning Stewart gave Holmes no chance to save. The time was 16:10."


Apr 2 1926 Montreal Gazette: SCF Game 2, Stewart again dominates up and down the ice. But he is playing as a defensemen here.
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search
"The big Maroon start is still an enigma to the Cougars. He has tricked them with such a variety of stunts that they hardly know what to expect. In the first game he slipped the puck through the Vic defense and rounded them to score the first goal while prone on the ice. Last night he rushed to the defense, but instead of around, he crashed between them. Still half off balance from the impact, Stewart kept to his purpose and blazed the puck past Holmes for goal number one."

"Stewart, teaming with Noble, was strong defensively and the biggest threat up forward."


Apr 7 1926: Montreal Gazette: Stewart has another monster game clinching the Cup for the Maroons. Again, Stewart is paired with Reg Noble on D. Cited for stealing the puck from Frank Foyston which directly led to a goal.

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Nov 19 1926 Montreal Gazette: Stewart steals puck

The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search
"The ice was sticky for the third period. Langlois got the first rush but shot from outside and Benny easily smothered the drive. Stewart took the puck away from McKinnon near the NY goal but shot wide."


Dec 31 1926 Montreal Gazette: Stewart described as tower of strength defensively, while constantly hooking checking attackers
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search
"Dutton almost broke the boards with a drive as the second chapter opened, but the shot was high. Holmes cheated the same player, a minute later. Stewart intercepted a pass, but had no one with him."

"Benedict got Gordon's shot and then spilled in his net to block a drive off the rebound. He was faultless in his work every minute. Stewart was a tower of strength defensively as well as offensively, hook checking the puck away from the puck carriers time and again at center ice."


January 26th 1927 Montreal Gazette:

Feb 11th 1927 Montreal Gazette: Stewart's hustle and smart defensive play saves likely goal
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search
"A spectacular stop by Worters deprived Punch Broadbent of a seemingly certain goal while Milk's and Carson languished on the side lines. McCurry retrieved the puck on Worters clearance and flanked by Drury, piled through wildly. Either Corsair might have tallied on the thrust had not Stewart hustled his frame across the glaze to sweep Drury's path and whirl the disc to a corner."


Feb 18th 1927 Montreal Gazette Stewart playing solid defense opposite of Frank Boucher, breaking up multiple rushes.
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search
"The teams started off at a rapid pace and after several rushed by both sides Nels Stewart took a pass from Dutton and sent a sizzling shot past Chabto fro the first counter in 3:55. This stimulated the Ranger forwards but they could not penetrate the Munro Dutton defense. Frank Boucher and Stewart broke up several plays around center ice where most of the play was confined"


Feb 25th 1927 Montreal Gazette: Montreal forwards mentioned for aiding the strong Maroon defense
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search
"Noble had a pot shot from ten feet out, but Holmes outguessed him and saved smartly. At every threat the Maroons packed their defense, the forwards rallying to the aid of the defense."


Mar 9 1927 Montreal Gazette: Stewart praised for his demon like work ethic and toughness
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search
"Montreal were as splendid in defeat. Never have they played better this year. Stewart worked like a demon and he gave and took his bumps with a willingness that was surprising. He was frequently spilled to the ice, his face barked by the falls, but he always came up for more and was ever dangerous as such closely watched."

"When Broadbent went off for heavy work, Gange started the Canadians on a sortie, which Stewart finally cleared. He was again tripped by Gange at the Canadian defense."


Mar 11 1927 Montreal Gazette: Stewart mentioned for being part of an impregnable defense
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search
"Ottawa were trying to desperately score but Noble and Stewart, aided by Phillips and Siebert and Broadbent were impregnable on defense."


Nov 15 1927 Montreal Gazette: Stewart played magnificent and was hard working. Again noted speed
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search
"Stewart was playing a magnificent hard working game at center for the Maroons, but was being closely watched and heavily bodied. Stewart and Munro traveled fast in an attack on the Senator goal...."


Nov 23 1927 Montreal Gazette: Stewart dropping back and blocking a Ching Johnson attack
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search
"Ching Johnson had a try all on his own but Dutton charged him off before he could get his shot in. Ching kept on breaking through, but Nels Stewart dropped back and cleverly blocked him."


Nov 30 1927 Montreal Gazette In a 4-0 loss Stewart was only Maroon player who had any luck stopping Boston attacks. Noted as playing a strong physical came, checking anyone who got near him.
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search
"Shore tore and stumbled through for a shot and Gaynor tried on the rebound. Nothing could stop the Bruin attackers except occasionally Stewart's big body."

"Shore got apparently loose in front of the Maroon goal, but Stewart came from the side, and bodied him out of the picture. Bodying tactics were becoming common, and Stewart was doing a job on whoever came near him."


Dec 2 1927 Montreal Gazette: Stewart again dropped back to play D
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search
"Stewart had to drop back to the Maroon defense, along with Dutton."

"Maroons were playing a sound back checking game to smother Ranger rushes as the final period reached the half way mark."


Feb 1 1928 Montreal Gazette: Stewart raced back to bowl over Frank Boucher who was about to let a shot rip from point blank range

The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search
"Frank Boucher wriggled his way through, but Nels Stewart raced back and bowled him over as he was about to shoot only a few yards from the cage".


Jan 23 1929 Montreal Gazette: Stewart singled out with 2 others for backing checking and poke checking brilliance. Stewart was on the LW in this game.
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search
"Stewart, Smith and Ward while working so dangerously on offensive also saw to it that there was no Couger retaliation. They back checked and poke checked so successfully that they had the Detroiters completely tied up. The Cougars couldn't move."


Feb 20 1929 Montreal Gazette: Stewart and Hooley Smith singled out for great poke checking efforts. Nels is still on the wing here.
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search
"Being out in front, the Maroons centered their efforts chiefly upon preserving their lead, which brought out some of the uncanniest poke checking ever seen here by Nels Stewart and Hooley Smith. The Americans drove down in three, four and finally five man attacks but nearly always great stick work by Smith and Stewart would sweep the puck away from them to pull their attempts to score up short. The crowd was almost delirious with excitement as the wonderful defensive tactics of the Montreal players baffled every effort t drive the disc into the net for the tying goal."


Nov 27 1929 Montreal Gazette: Stewart back at C, cited for back checking like a fiend.
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search
"Ward and Stewart played bang up games tonight. Big Bels was in on everything and back checked like a fiend."


The Calgary Daily Herald – January 19th said: (pulled from Dreak's bio)
It was a somewhat mild encounter, with the heavy checking of Hooley Smith and Nels Stewart smothering Ottawa attachs in the centre area.


Feb 12 1930 Montreal Gazette: Stewart was a "COLOSSUS" with noted back checking efforts and great passing.
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search
"Big Nelson Stewart stood out like a colossus last night. He backed checked effectively, fed his mates with passes, and when opportunities were presented him, made no mistakes. Both his goals were characteristic of him. The first Maroon goal of the game was propelled with mighty force in Stewart's quick shot fashion to beat Roach cold. John Ross never moved his stick on a low drive to the corner. Nelson's second goal, Maroon's fourth of the game, saw the big fellow pounce in on his own rebound to toss the puck high into the corner of the net. Stewart's goal getting average rose appreciably higher last night. Besides his two tallies, he gave a pair of assists, one to Seibert and the other to Smith."

"Smith, Stewart, and Siebert came on after about five minutes of the third period had gone, and at once achieved the double task of stemming the desperate Hawks attempts to score and of giving their own team an additional margin of safety by adding a second goal."


Jan 21st 1931: Ottawa Citizen: Stewart and Smith cited for playing well and poke checking many Leaf attacks in a loss
Ottawa Citizen - Google News Archive Search
"Stewart and Smith played well on their poke checking breaking up many a dangerous Leafs attack"


Feb 10 1932 Montreal Gazette: Stewart knocks player out of game with huge hit at center ice. He's 30 by this point.
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search
"The game was no pink tea affair, however. The lusty lads on both sides were handing out old fashioned body checks which, on more than one occasion, saw the victim decorate the ice with his prostrate form. Nels Stewart doubled up Wildor Larochelle with a bone rattling body check in center ice in the first period and they helped Wildor off with his feet dragging behind him, no to appear again well until the middle session was well on its way."




Was Nels Stewart a pylon?



Debunking the myth that Stewart was slow as molasses throughout his career. What I've found should certainly change the mindset as he was described as anything but slow, at the very least, throughout his Montreal Maroon days.


Toe Blake flat out refutes the notion/stereotype that Stewart was a slow skater:

The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Beliveau has often been likened to the late Nels Stewart. Toe Blake was asked if Stewart was a slow skater, as has been alleged.

"I've heard that and it wasn't true," he said. "You couldn't catch him from behind. He didn't look to be going fast because he took those long strides. Beliveau is like that, too."


Mar 31 1926: Montreal Gazette: SCF Game 1 Stewart was amazing. Defense, Scoring, Speed. "Rushed through the Victoria players at mid-ice with LONG, SWERVING STROKES". Sounds A LOT like what Toe Blake described above, doesn't it???

2uz88sx.jpg



Same game: "He tore down right wing"....."Stewart was following in fast on the cage"

120l1sw.jpg



Same game: "Traveling like lightning".....lightning is pretty fast


2ro41us.jpg





Nov 26th 1927 Ottawa Citizen: Stewart and Siebert noted making a "speedy" rush

View attachment 98527



Nov 26 1930 Montreal Gazette: Stewart shows great speed and then makes a great drop pass to Siebert who scores. "Sped down center" sounds like he was moving pretty darn fast....

9b8wsg.jpg



Jan 26 1931 Montreal Gazette: Stewart scores game winner of full length of the ice rush. "Speeding abreast the length of the ice" wouldn't be used to describe a slow skater.

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Dec 1st 1933 (Stewart would be 31 years old now, so well past his prime)

Ottawa Citizen - Google News Archive Search

"Nels Stewart appeared with the familiar black cap. He has lost a great deal of his speed, but is still a dangerous customer around the inner defense."

Kind of hard to lose A GREAT DEAL of speed if you didn't already posses it in the first place. Based on all my findings the speed stereotype surely came about from his Boston and NY days, certainly not from his time in Montreal which was his peak and prime.





Nels Stewart's resume on the LW. He's got more than seasons worth of time spent at LW:

52 game reports below with 30 goals scored over that time frame which would be a 47 goal pace over 82 games.



Dec 28th 1927 - Stewart LW (1 goal)
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Jan 6th 1928 - Stewart at LW (1 goal) - Ottawa citzen cleary says Nels Stewart would be LW while box score Pitt Post Gazette listed him as a sub.
Ottawa Citizen - Google News Archive Search
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Jan 15th 1928 - Stewart LW (2 goals)
The Pittsburgh Press - Google News Archive Search

Jan 18 1928 - Stewart LW (no stats)
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Jan 20 1928 - Stewart LW (no stats)
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Jan 27th 1928 - Stewart LW (1 goal)
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Feb 1 1928 - Stewart LW (no stats)
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Feb 8th 1928 - Stewart LW (1 goal)
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Feb 11th 1928 - Stewart LW (1 goal)
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Feb 12th 1928 - Stewart LW (1 goal, 1 assist) - noted as Maroons "huge wing"
The Pittsburgh Press - Google News Archive Search

Feb 17th 1928 - Stewart LW (no stats)
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Feb 22nd 1928 - Stewart LW (2 goals)
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Feb 29th 1928 - Stewart noted as Montreal LW
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Mar 2nd 1928 - Stewart LW (1 goal)
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Mar 7th 1928 - Stewart LW (1 goal)
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Mar 9th 1928 - Steart LW (no stats)
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Mar 14th 1928 - Stewart LW (no stats)
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Mar 23rd 1928 - Stewart LW (no stats)
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Nov 16th 1928 - Stewart LW (1 assist) - reconstructed assist, clearly described shows Siebert scoring off a pass by Nels
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Nov 18th 1928 - Stewart LW (2 goals)
The Pittsburgh Press - Google News Archive Search

Nov 21st 1928 - Stewart RW (1 goal) - interesting to see RW. Not sure, could be a typo. Ottawa Citizen just has him listed as wing
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette - Google News Archive Search
Ottawa Citizen - Google News Archive Search

Nov 23rd 1928 - Stewart LW/RW (no stats) - Ottawa paper lists him at LW, Pitt RW
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette - Google News Archive Search
Ottawa Citizen - Google News Archive Search

Nov 28th 1928 - Stewart LW (1 goal) - Hooley Smith called the Maroons "regular center" - Also, had 2 goals called back to offsides.
Ottawa Citizen - Google News Archive Search

Nov 30th 1928 - Stewart LW (no stats)
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Dec 2nd 1928 - No editions available. Would be no reason to assume Stewart was anywhere other than wing given his position before and after this date.

Dec 7th 1928 - Stewart LW (2 goals)
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Dec 9th 1928 - Stewart LW (no stats)
The Pittsburgh Press - Google News Archive Search

Dec 12th 1928 - Stewart LW (no stats)
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Dec 14th 1928 - Stewart LW (no stats)

Dec 16th 1928 - Stewart LW (no stats)
The Pittsburgh Press - Google News Archive Search

Dec 19th 1928 - Stewart LW (no stats)
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Dec 21 1928 - Stewart LW (1 goal)
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Dec 26th 1928 - Stewart LW (?) paper is in bad shape. Can't see who scored but can tell Stewart was LW
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Dec 30th 1928 - Stewart LW (1 goal) - Maroon forwads also noted for strong backchecking effort. Called "strong help to the defense"
The Pittsburgh Press - Google News Archive Search

Jan 2 1929 - Stewart LW (3 goals)
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Jan 4 1929 - Stewart LW (no stats) - noted poor game/lacksadiscal after a "bad penalty"
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Jan 6 1929 - Stewart LW (no stats)
The Pittsburgh Press - Google News Archive Search

Jan 9 1929 - Stewart LW (1 goal)
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Jan 11th 1929 - Stewart LW (1 assist)
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Jan 13th 1929 - Stewart RW (no stats)
The Pittsburgh Press - Google News Archive Search

Jan 18th 1929 - Stewart LW (no stats)
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Jan 20th 1929 - Stewart LW (1 goal)
The Pittsburgh Press - Google News Archive Search

Jan 23rd 1929 - Stewart LW (no stats) - noted strong offensively and defensively
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Feb 20th 1929 - Stewart LW (no stats) - noted that he played extremely effective defense
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Feb 22nd 1929 - Stewart LW (no stats)
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Feb 24th 1929 - Stewart LW (2 goals)
The Pittsburgh Press - Google News Archive Search

Feb 27th 1929 - Stewart LW (no stats)
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Mar 6th 1929 - Stewart LW (1 goal)
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Mar 10th 1929 - Stewart LW (no stats)
The Pittsburgh Press - Google News Archive Search

Nov 19th 1930 - Stewart LW (no stats) - Stewart one of the few Maroon players who showed up well despite being shut out

The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Nov 21st 1930 - Stewart LW (no stats)
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Dec 24th 1930 - Stewart C/LW? (2 goals) - Listed in lineup card as C but called big left wing in the game report.
The Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive Search

Other references of Stewart on the wing: (from Leafs Forever bio in 2011)

Nels Stewart, Montreal Maroon Left Winger, is leading all scorers in either section of the National Hockey League...- The Border Cities Star, Dec 4, 1928

....came off the stick of Stewart, Maroon wingman....-Ottawa Citizen, Jan 28, 1931

Stewart, high scoring left wing of the Montreal Maroons, is now the undisputed scoring leader of the Canadian section of the national hockey league- New York Times, Mar 12, 1929

Nels Stewart, Montreal Maroon left winger, is leading all scorers in either section of the National Hockey League.- The Border Cities Star, Dec 4, 1928

Nels Stewart, high scoring left-wing of the Montreal Maroons, is now the undisputed scoring leader of the Canadian section of the National Hockey league- New York Times, Marc 12, 1929

Nels Stewart, big Montreal Maroon left winger, has been a powerful factor in leading his club in (word cut out) rush from a lowly position to top most position in the National Hockey League race.- The Pittsburgh Press, Dec 7, 1928

Stewart noted as tantalizing stick handler, as well versatile, specifically left wing here:

View attachment 98535

Stewart picked as the first team AS LW

A writer picks his all-star teams for the first half of the 1928-29 season picked Nels Stewart as the first AST LW. Here is what the writer said about him(credit to TDMM for the find):

"a big man, dangerously rough at times, a very hard man to check, and one of the most finished players around the goal. In one game at Montreal I saw Stewart back-check like a most enthusiastic rookie, but after his team had scored two goals, he assumed his careless manner, merely standing around until someone brought the puck up to him... must drive a manager frantic... but when bearing down, he is the best left wing in the game."


Odds and ends for Stewart:


Dec 4 1925 Montreal Gazette: Stewart has huge game vs Howie Morenz and the Canadians. Cited for matching Morenz's speed with cleverness and cunning. Goal scoring and passing brilliance.
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Maroon forwards noted for bottling up the speed of the Candians before it could get going.
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Nels Stewart was the spectacular player of the evening.
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Dec 24th 1925 Montreal Gazette: Stewart and Reg Noble figured in continually stopping Pirates attacks.
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Jan 13 1926: Stewart has huge game. Bags 4 goals. Highlights of his stickhandling ability.
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Jan 20 1926 Montreal Gazette: Stewart noted for great defense poke checking many attacks away at center ice.

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Jan 26 1926 Montreal Gazette: Stewart steals puck from Simpson and passes out to Broadbent
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Feb 10 1926 Montreal Gazette: Stewart outstanding, great combination work with wings
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Feb 19 1926 Montreal Gazette: Stewart with another brilliant game.
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Feb 24 1926 Montreal Gazette: Stewart called smartest player in pro hockey
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Same game: Stewart among multiple Maroon players who thwarted attacks
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Same game: Again, Stewart singled out for his back checking efforts
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Same game: Stewart called out for his tireless work and defensive contributions
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Feb 27, 1926 Montreal Gazette: Stewart, in a loss cited for playing great defense despite being bottled up offensively
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Jul 13 1932 Lewiston Daily Sun: Stewart called best inside player in game
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Apr 3 1954 The Manitoba Ensign: DAL MacDonald calls Stewart the best scoring center he ever saw

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Nov 12 1930 Montreal Gazette: Maroons shut out but Stewart still cited for hard working efforts

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Nov 26 1930 Montreal Gazette: Stewart shows great speed and then makes a great drop pass to Siebert who scores
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Dec 3 1930 Montreal Gazette: Nels Stewart cited for a nice pass to Hooley Smith who scores.
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Dec 26 1930 Montreal Gazette: Stewart and Hooley Smith brilliant combination work nets a goal

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Jan 26 1931 Montreal Gazette: Stewart scores game winner of full length of the ice rush. Speed shown and debunks the myth that Stewart couldn't skate or just stood in the slot

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Nov 19 1930 Montreal Gazette. Stewart mentioned as showing up well despite Maroons losing 3-0
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Nov 25 1938 Montreal Gazette: Stewart creates goal due to good fore check
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Dec 19 1938 Montreal Gazette: Stewart noted "coming in fast" scores backhand goal
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Dec 6 1933 Montreal Gazette: Stewart assist

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Dec 19 1933 Montreal Gazette: Stewart big game with goal from behind net, using long reach.
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Dec 3 1930 Montreal Gazette: Stewart makes a nice pass/assist to Hooley Smith who scores
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Nov 26th 1927 Ottawa Citizen: Stewart scores a spinning backhander
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Poor games noted below:

Feb 8 1928, Montrela Gazette, Stewart distinctly off, nothing would go right for him but nothing specific mentioned.

Feb 27 1928 Montreal Gazette, Stewart had poor game, Larry Aurie continually leaving him behind on rushes.
 

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Key Player for Kenora: Red Kelly

As discussed above, Gorman's teams play a forechecking style, and Pittsburgh's top 6 does not have players suited for that style. On top of that, Kenora has the perfect weapon to expose those mis-used players, and that weapon is Red Kelly. As surely everyone is aware, Red Kelly is one of the greatest offensive/rushing defensemen of all time (in that category I have him only behind Orr and Coffey). Pittsburgh will not be successful in trying to pin down Kelly in his own zone, and will be vulnerable to counter-attacks sparked by Kelly's great rushing ability. Kelly will see big minutes this series as not only Kenora's best player, but also their most important.

In addition, please see the below to show how Kenora is perfectly set up to maximize Red Kelly's effectiveness, which was posted previously in the divisional discussion thread...


The Bankers just beat a team featuring a top pair of Bobby Orr-Tim Horton. No offense to Mr. Kelly but if we can beat Bobby Orr, we can beat Red Kelly. Kenora's defense is nowhere near what Toronto had and against our skill and lopsided offensive advantage, especially down the middle, will be a big reason why.

Foyston, Giroux and Broadbent are perfectly suited to play Gorman's style to a T, forechecking aggressively and smartly. So is our entire bottom 6. As you can see in the bio just above, Nels Stewart was a solid and sometimes fantastic defensive player during his Montreal days which spanned the prime and peak of his career. Martinec was a plus defensive player so he at least checks off that box for Gorman. Gretzky is the only guy who didn't forecheck and was largely average defensively. BUT, he also happens to be the greatest player in the history of the game. The most dominant regular and post season player in history. He'd be welcomed with open arms by any coach with sense. You can argue a few of the old timers (say Punch Imlach) wouldn't like him, but they also never witnessed a player as offensively dominant either.
 

jarek

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Foyston "meh" is right. I think his all-around game is very overrated.
 

jarek

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You guys clearly don't bother reading bios.

I've read the stuff about Foyston. I think you're a fool for giving him the entire burden of puck winning on your top line, because Gretzky and Martinec won't do it.

You have a coach who wants to play an aggressive forechecking game and given him basically only Frank Foyston to do that for your top line. I will concede that it's likely Tommy Gorman will find a way to make Gretzky work, but it isn't a match made in heaven if you know what I mean. Gorman's effectiveness and potentially Gretzky's will be lessened simply because the player and coaching style don't fit.

You of all people know that players will listen to whatever the coaches tell them to do and sometimes it simply doesn't work, like the way it didn't work in Pittsburgh for Mike Johnston. It is no coincidence that the team turned around when Sullivan took over. Knowing this, I just don't understand your choice of coach.
 

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Maybe because Tommy Gorman was easily the best coach on the board?

Frank Foyston was an aggressive, all around stud and won a league MVP because he was just that. He's easily one of the greatest all around players of his generation of you read everything.
 

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Dawson Daily News - 4/11/1917 said:
Capt. Foyston was the same valuable leader as in the former games. Foyston was fast as a streak and his back checking and all round playing featured the game.

The Morning Leader - 3/19/1917 said:
Frank Foyston, captain of the Mets, although he scored but one goal, was the individual star of the Seattle team. Foyston's work on offense and defense, his checking, skating and shooting were of a class that fully justified his selection as the most valuable player in Pacific coast hockey.


Regina Morning Leader - 12/1/1915 said:
Foyston to Captain Seattle Hockey Team

Frank Foyston, of Toronto, considered one of the brainiest hockey players in the business, was chosen captain of the Seattle Metropolitans yesterday afternoon. Foyston took charge of the team at yesterday's practice. The easterner was entirely unsuspecting of the honor and was surprised when told of his selection.

Foyston plays forward and is a splendid skater, an aggressive player and can hold his own in a close fight with the rest of them.​

Toronto Sunday World - 3/20/1914 said:
Frank Foyston was the most useful man for the victors, and went from end to end, despite the rough passage that was given him by the Victoria defense. Genge and Patrick were not gentle with their checking when Foyston got in to close quarters, but the blue and white centre went right back for more and worried Lindsay with his hard shots from close in.

Toronto Sunday Mail - 3/18/1914 said:
Walker and Foyston were just as good as ever, and they were relentless, both upon their powers of endurance and the attacking forwards. Their feats are common talk among the fans, so it is not necessary to elaborate upon their performance again.​

Toronto Sunday Mail - 3/16/1914 said:
Foyston was probably the best man on the ice, and his aggressive playing did more to stop the visitors than anything else. He was always in the fray, and kept his opponents watching him all the time.​

The Toronto World - 12/19/1912 said:
Foyston, the Barrie boy, showed some of the stars up this morning and Bruce certainly liked the way he shaped up. He shoots well and checks cleanly and hard.​
 

Dreakmur

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Maybe because Tommy Gorman was easily the best coach on the board?

Frank Foyston was an aggressive, all around stud and won a league MVP because he was just that. He's easily one of the greatest all around players of his generation of you read everything.

He's ok as a fore-checker, but proper fore-checking is done mostly in tandems.
 

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He's ok as a fore-checker, but proper fore-checking is done mostly in tandems.

I agree, in a perfect world. But I wasn't going to take a lesser qualified coach because a few guys on an entire roster aren't a perfect fit. I'm not dismissing that they aren't a great fit, rather that trying to Monday morning QB a roster and the fit to the coach can be done with just about anyone. It's going to happen when you have a good portion of your roster already drafted and coaches start flying the off board at an usual rate.

And the other 2 guys on the line are Gretzky and Martinec. I'm quite sure somebody like Gorman who won with practically garbage (compared to the rest of the league at the time) and was very innovative would find a way/allow that kind of offensive brilliance to do their thing. Gretzky and Kurri didn't fore check for the Oilers and they were fine. I know, different era, different time but it's not like we're playing the game in any one specific time period or rules AFAIK.

Remember, Gorman was a noted players coach. He wasn't a task master like Imlach or Hap Day. Which is a big reason why I took him over those types even though I rank Day slightly ahead of Gorman. And the leadership of Gretzky, Clapper and Kennedy who are all elite in that role absolutely plays a part in keeping the team on point.
 

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As far as Giroux is concerned I've seen a good bit of his career. I live 2 hours from Philly so needless to say I've seen a lot of their games over the past 10 years. There are very few guys his size who play as big as he does all over the ice. And he's a star, not some bottom 6 energy guy. Is he elite as a forechecker here? No. Does he have to be? No. Because the primary player on that line for that role is Broadbent who was very good end to end, checking. Giroux will stick his nose anywhere on the ice, including the corners and win his fair share of battles. Not to mention when you have an ELITE slot and net front behemoth like Nels Stewart attracting a lot of attention that alone frees up some time and space for the wingers.

And I don't think anyone would question the bottom 6 or D pairs that Gorman has at his disposal either.

So If detractors are saying Wayne Gretzky and Vlad Martinec (2 players on a 24 man rosters) are going to possibly sink the Bankers when we have a big advantage down the middle of the ice at C, with defensive skill and depth and in net, not to mention the best collection of playoff performers the ATD has probably ever seen on one roster, then there isn't anything I'm going to say that will change those folks minds.


Edit: And BTW, thank you and the others who have chimed in for creating discussion. THIS is what a Conference finals thread should look like. :)
 

Dreakmur

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I agree, in a perfect world. But I wasn't going to take a lesser qualified coach because a few guys on an entire roster aren't a perfect fit. I'm not dismissing that they aren't a great fit, rather that trying to Monday morning QB a roster and the fit to the coach can be done with just about anyone. It's going to happen when you have a good portion of your roster already drafted and coaches start flying the off board at an usual rate.

You can say it's just a few guys, but it's most of the top guys. Most of the guys who will get most of the ice time don't fit the system your coach was known for employing.

And the other 2 guys on the line are Gretzky and Martinec. I'm quite sure somebody like Gorman who won with practically garbage (compared to the rest of the league at the time) and was very innovative would find a way/allow that kind of offensive brilliance to do their thing. Gretzky and Kurri didn't fore check for the Oilers and they were fine. I know, different era, different time but it's not like we're playing the game in any one specific time period or rules AFAIK.

You are correct that we aren't playing in any certain era, but that's pretty pointless.

Gretzky didn't forecheck because that wasn't a big part of Edmonton's system. It is a big part of Gorman's. Actually, the forechecking system is probably the only reason Gorman is an ATD calibre coach.

Remember, Gorman was a noted players coach. He wasn't a task master like Imlach or Hap Day. Which is a big reason why I took him over those types even though I rank Day slightly ahead of Gorman. And the leadership of Gretzky, Clapper and Kennedy who are all elite in that role absolutely plays a part in keeping the team on point.

How is Gretzky going to "lead" the team into following Gorman's forechecking system when he isn't even going to do it himself?
 

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You can say it's just a few guys, but it's most of the top guys. Most of the guys who will get most of the ice time don't fit the system your coach was known for employing.

You are correct that we aren't playing in any certain era, but that's pretty pointless.

Gretzky didn't forecheck because that wasn't a big part of Edmonton's system. It is a big part of Gorman's. Actually, the forechecking system is probably the only reason Gorman is an ATD calibre coach.

How is Gretzky going to "lead" the team into following Gorman's forechecking system when he isn't even going to do it himself?


Gorman invented that particular system in large part because he didn't have the quality players to play it any differently. Had you handed him the keys to Howie Morenz, Joliat, and company he probably wouldn't have said, hey, go play a strict defensive oriented system.

He should be lauded for pioneering an aggressive style of fore checking to counter the lack of overall skill on those Chicago and Montreal Maroon teams but here he has A LOT more skill and talent at his disposal. And again, we're talking the greatest hockey player of all time and one of the greatest non NHL talents ever, not to mention both of whom are regarded as having elite intangibles. You don't take the keys to a Ferrari and then go drive it like a dune buggy.
 

Dreakmur

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Gorman invented that particular system in large part because he didn't have the quality players to play it any differently. Had you handed him the keys to Howie Morenz, Joliat, and company he probably wouldn't have said, hey, go play a strict defensive oriented system.

He's also a guy who coached 8 seasons to a 0.500 record.... so.... unless you're going to employ the tactic that is basically the only thing he did that makes him an ATD worthy coach, I'm not sure what the plan is.

He should be lauded for pioneering an aggressive style of fore checking to counter the lack of overall skill on those Chicago and Montreal Maroon teams but here he has A LOT more skill and talent at his disposal.

The fact that he gets drafted means he is lauded. As said above, outside of that innovation, his coaching career is pretty mediocre.

And again, we're talking the greatest hockey player of all time and one of the greatest non NHL talents ever, not to mention both of whom are regarded as having elite intangibles.

Who do you honestly think has "elite intangibles" among your top-6 forwards... I mean, seriously.....

You don't take the keys to a Ferrari and then go drive it like a dune buggy.

That's what you did when you put Gorman on your bench, IMO.
 

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Who do you honestly think has "elite intangibles" among your top-6 forwards... I mean, seriously.....

1. Gretzky. One of the smartest players of all time, not to mention his work ethic is pretty much unparalleled. Seriously.


2. Might not be elite, but Stewart was praised for having a great brain for the game.

"I cannot recall any great pro who seemingly put less effort into his play and yet who came up with as much success as this 200-pound star...I would have to rate Nels Stewart the brainiest player I have ever known."
Frank Selke describes Stewarts intelligence and reputation as a “coaster

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After fifteen years of organized hockey one would imagine that a man would just about be ready to retire to a quiet life. But not so Nels Stewart, star centre and defence man of the Montreal Maroons of the national hockey league. Nels is still at it and they still call him "Old Poison". There are plenty of big men in the NHL, and there are plenty of brainy men, but there are few who combine both weight and brains. Nels Stewart is one of the few. He tips the scales at over two hundreds pounds but only uses his weight when necessary. He relies more on the gray matter between his ears. Perhaps that is why he has lasted so long. Stewart set the hockey world on fire almost over night....The remarkable thing about it all is that he is just about as effective now as he ever was.- Ottawa Citizen, Jan 27, 1931




3. Martinec was absolutely brilliant when it came to hockey smarts, work ethic and selflessness. Thanks to Jarek for the bio.
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/113081033/
 

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Again, at the end of the day, trying to point to a few players from an entire roster, arguing about the perfect fit, and using that as a way to "bridge the gap" in terms of the Bankers being in front handily down the middle of the ice at C, on the 2nd and 3rd pairs of the D corps, as well as in net and on special teams as whole doesn't hold much water for me.

I didn't assemble a roster full of run and gun players for crying out loud. I've got solid to elite checkers up and down the F lines (Foyston, Broadbent, Kennedy, Westfall, Getzlaf, Bourne, Paiement) and a D corps that IMO is slanted towards defensive proficiency, positioning, shot blocking, etc, especially looking at the top 4.
 

Dreakmur

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1. Gretzky. One of the smartest players of all time, not to mention his work ethic is pretty much unparalleled. Seriously.

Hey, hockey smarts is one intangible. Gretzky is super-elite there.

A lot of us have seen Gretzky play. His work ethic on the forecheck and backcheck certainly is paralleled. He wass not a particularly hard-working player in games.

2. Might not be elite, but Stewart was praised for having a great brain for the game.

You've done a good job building old Nels up here, but he's a long ways a way from being a high-intangibles player.

3. Martinec was absolutely brilliant when it came to hockey smarts, work ethic and selflessness. Thanks to Jarek for the bio.
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/113081033/

Again, great. Does that make him a great forechecker?
 

jarek

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Wait, what? Martinec is an elite intangibles player? Even I wouldn't be caught saying that.

IE, you are overselling your team like crazy here, and it's really starting to sour on me.

The fact of the matter is, your coach is incompatible with the most important player on any ATD roster - Wayne Gretzky.
 

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@jarek If it was such an important and insurmountable obstacle I'm surprised you didn't harp on it during our series.

I've got a solution. If you think it's THAT monumental a deal, vote against me. At the end of the day this is a game, and it's no skin off my back either way.

Basically what I'm seeing is that Gretzky specifically couldn't play for a good portion of the greatest ATD coaches all time because he didn't do much in the way of fore/back checking.

The fact of the matter is this. Not every player has to be a perfect fit on an ATD roster to win. It's certainly not in real life. Mike Sullivan preaches speed and relentless fore checking and somehow the Penguins have won back to back cups with Phil bleeping Kessel. :laugh:

As for the intangibles, when I bring up quotes about players (Stewart) being the smartest player in all of hockey and brainiest (by a legendary hockey mind like Frank Selke) I personally believe that to be top notch evidence. That doesn't mean he's all of a sudden perfect or lacking in one area or another. I was asked who in my top 6 had elite intangibles. Gretzky did. Nels Stewart obviously did for some people. Martinec, out of jarek's very own bio reads like an incredibly smart hockey player who in many ways was anti European for the times. He played good defense as an elite star in Europe which wasn't widespread. He played his best against finesse or abusive opponents. None of that is overselling anything IMO.

Again, if people think that a top 10 coach all time wouldn't be able to coach Wayne Gretzky, then I've lost your vote already at this point and maybe even beforehand. And that's fine. It's your opinion and prerogative to do so. But I simply don't think an innovative, all time great players coach who is arguably the greatest judge of hockey talent ever (essentially built the Ottawa dynasty of the 20's as manager, and then the 1940's Montreal Canadians as GM) is going to have a hard time utilizing the greatest player of all time, especially when 3/4 of my forward group fits the traditional Gorman style.



Here's an overview summary one more time for everyone.

Overall:

1. Coaching - Very slight edge to Pittsburgh or wash.

2. Forwards - Advantage to Pittsburgh. Namely because of the elite top end and depth down the middle at C is quite superior to the Thistles group. Kenora doesn't have near enough on the wings to counter the advantage down the middle for the Bankers IMO.

3. Defense - Wash overall. Kenora enjoys an advantage on the top pair, but Pittsburgh is ahead on the 2nd and 3rd IMO. Pittsburgh already overcame, and won in a landslide against (Theo showed the overall voting tallies) the best defense in the ATD in Toronto who had a top 4 of Bobby Orr, Tim Horton, Allan Stanley and Carl Brewer.

4. Goalies - Moderate to big advantage to Pittsburgh. Roy is elite. Broda average overall here.

5. Special Teams - Slight advantage to Pittsburgh. PP's are close enough to be called a wash but I think Pitt comes out on top when looking at the PK groups.
 

jarek

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@jarek If it was such an important and insurmountable obstacle I'm surprised you didn't harp on it during our series.

So am I.

The fact of the matter is this. Not every player has to be a perfect fit on an ATD roster to win. It's certainly not in real life. Mike Sullivan preaches speed and relentless fore checking and somehow the Penguins have won back to back cups with Phil bleeping Kessel. :laugh:

Phil Kessel is, at best, the 5th most important player to the Pens, after Crosby, Malkin, Letang and Murray. There is a chasm of a difference between Phil Kessel and Wayne Gretzky with respect to the importance of each player to their team.

Personally, if I drafted Wayne, I would target a very specific subset of coaches because it's so important for the coach to mesh well with him.
 

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