GDT: Jets vs Canucks - Rogers Arena - Oct 12, 9:00pm CT

[sipowicz]

Too lazy to read the whole thread, is our favourite ex-Jet Burmistrov a healthy scratch or injured?

 

[Jet]

Armia has been my favorite for a long time now , but unfortunately it seems like he's not capable of taking that next step to be a top 6 player. Barely a roster player now. Too bad.

I'm hoping he'll find it but I agree, you can see so much just below the surface. Another one of those guys with elite talent who just can't consistently put it all together.

 

[sipowicz]

Pretty sure it was Kevin Sawyer that was alongside Beyak for that Edmonton game.
I liked Dave Thomlinson from the preseason myself.
Looks like it will be a revolving door for who gets colour duty for this year's TSN jets broadcasts.

TSN replacement(s) blurb

GJG!

It was Keven Sawyer, former Spokane Chief and Anaheim Duck and Shaw WHL colour commentator.

He was okay and that’s being kind.

 

[Jet]

Why?

Dano/Copp/Petan looked like hot garbage with their minutes against the Oilers. Think they had like 1 shot attempt for and 12 against. They were also sheltered when they could be.

Meanwhile, Matthias/Lowry/Tanev were quite effective with much tougher minutes and just about 0 sheltering. Over 50% corsi for Lowry.

I don't understand why people think that possessing "skill" (whatever that means) makes you a more effective NHLer than guys who actually produce consistent results (Lowry anyways, not always sure how he carries around the Tanev's and Matthias' of the world and doesn't sink)

Having whatever "skill" that Petan/Copp/Dano do that Lowry does not doesn't seem to make them more effective NHLers at this point.

People want to cheer for the sexy option. Ever since it was determined somehow that grit and physicality made teams suck, anyone who fits that mold is garbage and doesn't deserve a roster spot. Meanwhile the tiny dancers of the world are put on a pedestal even though they don't actually drive WINS.

JMHO

 

[KingBogo]

Still think that bottom 6 is really bad

As long as Maurice keeps playing lines like this I'll probably remain pessimistic

So who else does Maurice have to play in the bottom 6? You can quibble about #3 and #4 lines, but numbering of lines is more of a media and fan creation. But those are the players Maurice has to work with. Armia is still dinged up and there is Hendricks. That leaves, Lowry, Matthias, Tanev, Copp, Petan and Dano to round out the lineup. Getting an upgrade on that would be on Chevy.

 

[Beavski24]

I still dont get the Petan love. Its actually mind boggling how far people will go to defend him. Its crazy. People going on about Lowry yet praising Petan. I dont hate the guy and wish him the best but there comes a point where you need to pull your head from the sand and just accept that rigjy now Petan isnt very good. And who knows if he ever will be. But hes good on the PP? Really? The same PP that has struggled big time? I dont get the love. Hes a marginal fringe NHL player whether people accept it or not... Pull out the charts all you want.. In the scheme of things they dont mean much... Ill say this about these charts... If they are saying Petan is a good NHL player... Well those charts credibility level is pretty much non existent.

Quick... Someone come save loverboy Petan who has done nothing of note in the NHL.

Lol. Petan Copp Dano.. Yeah ill bet NHL coaches just dread that combo. Lol. As if.

Cant be serious. Petan Copp Dano have done nothing of note. They are an afterthought... Teams probably hope they are on the ice lots so they can play that shift entirely in the Jets zone.

Petan is better than armia. Petan has a lot of skill . Lowry is good to for his role. If you don't see petan as a good player you bumped your head watch him tn in his 9 minutes of game and tell me what u thought

 

[Holden Caulfield]

People want to cheer for the sexy option. Ever since it was determined somehow that grit and physicality made teams suck, anyone who fits that mold is garbage and doesn't deserve a roster spot. Meanwhile the tiny dancers of the world are put on a pedestal even though they don't actually drive WINS.

JMHO

Not even close to accurate about...anything really. Winning hockey games is about outscoring opponants, ie results. The inputs come from many different ways, from physical play to hands to skating to positioning to shooting to passing to hockey iq. That's how the results are obtained.

LA Kings won 2 Stanley Cups almost purely on grit and physicality with 2/3 elite snipers thrown in. Pens won it on top end talent and speed. Chicago does it with skill and puck possession. Winning happens many different ways. The point is that best players should play.

 

[robertocarlos]

I bet Canucks to win and then Jets by 2 to hedge the bet. I don't know if I did that right or if the bets were a smart amount. Jets win by one and I lose both.

 

[KingBogo]

Ehlers Scheifele Wheeler
Perreault Little Laine
Matthias Lowry Tanev
Petan Copp Dano

Morrissey Trouba
Kulikov Myers
Enstrom Poolman

Hellebuyck

So we have a top 6 that is supposed to provide offence, yet both Ehlers & Laine are placed on their natural sides for defensive purposes.

Meanwhile the bottom 6 that is supposed to be playing shutdown hockey has Tanev & Dano playing their off wings.

...sigh

Put if you look of the makeup of the lines, you either have to then switch Ehlers for Laine directly for each other or move Wheeler to LW and MP to RW, and that won't happen. In the bottom 6 you'd have to switch Petan and Matthias to their off wings instead of Tanev and Dano. And for Tanev does it really matter? It looks to me with Armia out it is more the number of left handed shots on the wings.

 

[surixon]

Go Jets Go. Let's get back to 500.

 

[Gabe Kupari]

Petan is better than armia. Petan has a lot of skill . Lowry is good to for his role. If you don't see petan as a good player you bumped your head watch him tn in his 9 minutes of game and tell me what u thought

He hasnt shown it. Jr was a long time ago now

 

[Peggy]

So who else does Maurice have to play in the bottom 6? You can quibble about #3 and #4 lines, but numbering of lines is more of a media and fan creation. But those are the players Maurice has to work with. Armia is still dinged up and there is Hendricks. That leaves, Lowry, Matthias, Tanev, Copp, Petan and Dano to round out the lineup. Getting an upgrade on that would be on Chevy.

Spread out the talent
Give some promotions

 

[Gabe Kupari]

Not even close to accurate about...anything really. Winning hockey games is about outscoring opponants, ie results. The inputs come from many different ways, from physical play to hands to skating to positioning to shooting to passing to hockey iq. That's how the results are obtained.

LA Kings won 2 Stanley Cups almost purely on grit and physicality with 2/3 elite snipers thrown in. Pens won it on top end talent and speed. Chicago does it with skill and puck possession. Winning happens many different ways. The point is that best players should play.

Petan and Dano have like 6 combined goals in their Jets career.

 

[QuietContrarian]

Fear not Finns, Laine gets a hatty tonight

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Instead of spreading out talent Maurice has front loaded the top two lines. I guess the idea is that they will score enough that it justifies a poverty of scoring in the bottom 6. If it doesn't work hopefully he is not too stubborn to change...

That is the much derided 2 scoring line/checking line/specialist parking line model. There is more to it than just loading up your top 2 lines.

It is counter-intuitive to me but I can be happy with it if it works. The trouble I see with it is that it doesn't seem to me to make the most of the assets we have available. Also the 2nd line has no chemistry and isn't scoring. So .... in spite of having a wealth of offensively talented forwards we are a 1 line team. WTF? Hope that changes, starting tonight and at least the 2nd line starts scoring.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

Petan and Dano have like 6 combined goals in their Jets career.

And considering the underlying statistics this points to massive misuse by the coach.

 

[Dayofthedogs]

One game does not a season make. The Petan-Copp-Dano line did struggle at times against the Oilers, and the usage reflected that. Over the longer term more consistently these guys have produced far superior results than Matthias-Lowry-Tanev so on average the expectation is that they will do better. I'm all for benching guys who are not playing well, but the reverse needs to be true.

The issue is that Lowry plays big minutes no matter what, and Petan-Dano can seemingly do nothing to earn those higher minutes. Last game they certainly didn't earn it and didn't receive it. It will happen at some point that they do earn more, yet it never seems to matter. That's issue I've had with it.

Again as has been talked about it would be a big help if Perreault was moved onto the 3rd line with Petan/Copp/Dano with one of those moved onto top 2 lines to balance the scoring. Give teams 3 lines that they have to match up against, good luck with that for other teams.

Also it would be really nice if Maurice would stop using the Lowry line after a goal against. They never manage to swing momentum back as we saw in the Edmonton game they got scored on instantly. The idea of tossing the checking line out after a goal against is an old mentality that now contributes to momentum spiraling on the Jets.

I have no problem with Petan/Copp/Dano getting more minutes than any version of the Lowry line. I'd just like to see them earn it and the clock is ticking with Hendricks getting healthy.

My only real point here is as long as the Lowry line is playing well and you can throw him out in the D zone and not crap your pants why would anyone want to see the Copp line that is crapping it's own pants with sheltered minutes play more?

If the Copp line go out and put together some good shifts early in the first and are "winning" their minutes I bet they total similar TOI 5vs5 as Lowry's line.

I'm taking it game by game.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Pretty sure it was Kevin Sawyer that was alongside Beyak for that Edmonton game.
I liked Dave Thomlinson from the preseason myself.
Looks like it will be a revolving door for who gets colour duty for this year's TSN jets broadcasts.

TSN replacement(s) blurb

GJG!

A couple have already shown badly.

Agree, Tomlinson was easily the best so far. Wouldn't mind him as Hnidy's replacement. Sawyer was a distant 2nd.

 

[JetsFan815]

Why?

Dano/Copp/Petan looked like hot garbage with their minutes against the Oilers. Think they had like 1 shot attempt for and 12 against. They were also sheltered when they could be.

Meanwhile, Matthias/Lowry/Tanev were quite effective with much tougher minutes and just about 0 sheltering. Over 50% corsi for Lowry.

I don't understand why people think that possessing "skill" (whatever that means) makes you a more effective NHLer than guys who actually produce consistent results (Lowry anyways, not always sure how he carries around the Tanev's and Matthias' of the world and doesn't sink)

Having whatever "skill" that Petan/Copp/Dano do that Lowry does not doesn't seem to make them more effective NHLers at this point.

I still dont get the Petan love. Its actually mind boggling how far people will go to defend him. Its crazy. People going on about Lowry yet praising Petan. I dont hate the guy and wish him the best but there comes a point where you need to pull your head from the sand and just accept that rigjy now Petan isnt very good. And who knows if he ever will be. But hes good on the PP? Really? The same PP that has struggled big time? I dont get the love. Hes a marginal fringe NHL player whether people accept it or not... Pull out the charts all you want.. In the scheme of things they dont mean much... Ill say this about these charts... If they are saying Petan is a good NHL player... Well those charts credibility level is pretty much non existent.

Quick... Someone come save loverboy Petan who has done nothing of note in the NHL.

Lol. Petan Copp Dano.. Yeah ill bet NHL coaches just dread that combo. Lol. As if.

Cant be serious. Petan Copp Dano have done nothing of note. They are an afterthought... Teams probably hope they are on the ice lots so they can play that shift entirely in the Jets zone.

People want to cheer for the sexy option. Ever since it was determined somehow that grit and physicality made teams suck, anyone who fits that mold is garbage and doesn't deserve a roster spot. Meanwhile the tiny dancers of the world are put on a pedestal even though they don't actually drive WINS.

JMHO

These kinds of posts are super frustrating. This is what we know about Petan:

1. He has produced at a fantastic rate at every single level in the minors (including when the he was with the Moose where his scoring rate was very good for a rookie)
2. His numbers when he played with skilled players last season were very good, those skilled players saw a boost in their numbers when playing with Petan
3. He was very good in the preseason playing with skilled players

Given points 1, 2 and 3 I think wanting to see Petan play more and with players who are skilled is the most obvious conclusion. Maybe he makes it in the NHL or maybe he does not. Maybe his numbers in the minors can't translate to the NHL. Maybe his good numbers with skilled players were a product of small sample sizes. Maybe his preseaon performance was a mirage. But given that one has to throw in so many maybes to downplay Petan then perhaps it warrants him getting an extended look so that those maybes can be proven one way or the other.

Petan is Winnipeg Jets property for the next 5 years. Given that he has shown, him succeeding can only be good for the Jets. What I don't "get" is why some are so willing to write off a player who could help the Jets big time. What do the Jets have to lose? I mean it's not like the guys that play ahead of him are lighting the world on fire

Give Petan atleast ~14 minutes a night including PP time. Play him with players of some level of skill (a Perreault - Petan - Dano type line). Let that experiment ride out for atleast ~25 games. Then you start to fairly evaluate what you have in Petan. Hot takes based on one game or speculation based on perceived bias for smaller players are not going to convince many people

 

[KingBogo]

Spread out the talent
Give some promotions

So whose ice time do you want to cut down? As much as Armia, Petan, Dano have their fans they are all a sharp drop off from the players we currently have in the top 6. Balancing out the the lines is great in theory, but hard to do when there is a big gap in skill levels. MP is a possibility to drop down but he helps get Laine into the offensive zone. E-S-W just might be the best line in hockey do you want to split them up? Dropping Laine down to play with Lowry would cause rioting in the streets of Finland.

How about Dano-Copp-Petan learn to be effective on their own and start earning minutes? That is pretty much the 4th line I remember people clambering for in the past.

 

[SLAYER]

Too lazy to read the whole thread, is our favourite ex-Jet Burmistrov a healthy scratch or injured?

Scratched.

 

[JetsFan815]

Too lazy to read the whole thread, is our favourite ex-Jet Burmistrov a healthy scratch or injured?

Seems like he is a healthy scratch for tonight. The "Sip Treatment" has many success stories (Scheifele and Wheeler are shining examples), unfortunately it never worked on Burmi

So who else does Maurice have to play in the bottom 6? You can quibble about #3 and #4 lines, but numbering of lines is more of a media and fan creation. But those are the players Maurice has to work with. Armia is still dinged up and there is Hendricks. That leaves, Lowry, Matthias, Tanev, Copp, Petan and Dano to round out the lineup. Getting an upgrade on that would be on Chevy.

Line numbering is not a media or fan creation. Maurice decides which line gets numbered as the 3rd line and which 4th depending on how much icetime he allocates for each and so far his icetime allocations give out a clear and unambiguous signal- Lowry line is the 3rd line.

 

[wabagee]

I hope we start winning soon so the topic turns back to our exiting players? The Jets threads have never been this boring, everything is about the bottom six!

 

[Afterburner]

Fear not Finns, Laine gets a hatty tonight

Laine hatty comeback a GO!

 

[JetsFan815]

Go Jets Go. Let's get back to 500.

This is a big game. Really need a win tonight to keep everyone from panicking