Jets General Rumour, Trade, Free Agent and Waiver Speculation 15-16 Part X

[cheswick]

Right. That 25% is going to make it tricky for some teams. I think all the teams are accepting that they will have to give up a decent player to the expansion team(s).

It'll be a team filled with number 4 defencemen, number 8 forwards and number 2 goalies. Lower top end talent, but higher bottom end talent then other teams.

 

[Aavco Cup]

Huh? We are going off in 2 entirely different directions here. Lawyers parsing language?

Difficult in the sense that no team wants to find themselves having to choose between exposing one of their best players or their top prospect. If it goes as you have been saying, that pending UFAs can't be counted and players still in but almost finished their 2nd pro seasons have to be protected or exposed and 25% of the current season's salary has to be exposed and players just completing their NCAA sophomore seasons have to be protected or exposed and NMCs have to be protected there is precious little that is not exposed. That kind of difficult.

I think it makes more sense if the draft is held in early to mid June to consider all contracts still valid until July 1. Otherwise the expansion team is going to have a stronger roster than half the existing teams. Nothing to do with lawyers and loopholes.

All things being equal they are at best going to be picking team's #4 D or their #8 F or #2 G. If they are smart they mix it up and pick some prospects and AHL types with potential along the way. They can fill in the gaps with free agents. I'd be surprised if they end up a playoff team but they won't be a typical expansion team.

The point was the NHL can make the rules any way they see fit. They don't have to be fair or make sense.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

All things being equal they are at best going to be picking team's #4 D or their #8 F or #2 G. If they are smart they mix it up and pick some prospects and AHL types with potential along the way. They can fill in the gaps with free agents. I'd be surprised if they end up a playoff team but they won't be a typical expansion team.

The point was the NHL can make the rules any way they see fit. They don't have to be fair or make sense.

Yes, of course they can but the expansion teams have to be willing to pay the 500 mil under those rules and the owners have to be willing to live with the rules too. It is not just Bettman or some of his minions making things up to suit themselves.

 

[BigZ65]

All things being equal they are at best going to be picking team's #4 D or their #8 F or #2 G. If they are smart they mix it up and pick some prospects and AHL types with potential along the way. They can fill in the gaps with free agents. I'd be surprised if they end up a playoff team but they won't be a typical expansion team.

The point was the NHL can make the rules any way they see fit. They don't have to be fair or make sense.

The teams (BOG) have to agree so they have to be within reason.

 

[Aavco Cup]

The teams (BOG) have to agree so they have to be within reason.

Bettman drives the train

 

[drumzan]

It'll be a team filled with number 4 defencemen, number 8 forwards and number 2 goalies. Lower top end talent, but higher bottom end talent then other teams.

Pavelec.

Oh, you mean 2 as in backup.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Bettman drives the train

To a polnt. The owners are his employers.

 

[Aavco Cup]

To a polnt. The owners are his employers.

Yes but it got to this point, they had input already. This is a finacial decision. It won't be decided because a team is gonna lose one player or a prospect. The heavy lifting has already been done.

 

[Grind]

Beytman "drives the train" but he stops at every station the BOG tells him to.

Agreed the heavy lifting on decisions is probably done, but it will be something the big as a consensus has reached, its not as if bettmans is making plans and firxi g them upon the teams. He listens to what they as a group and individuals say they wants and does his best to insure all parties are happy and profitable.


One of my favourite fairy tales is how the big bad bettman took the jets away, even though all southern expansion ideas plans and pushes were ratified before he was even hired. I

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Yes but it got to this point, they had input already. This is a finacial decision. It won't be decided because a team is gonna lose one player or a prospect. The heavy lifting has already been done.

Don't disagree for a minute but I am getting at your contention that they won't use the technical expiry date of the season for pending UFAs. I think they will and I think they will be conistent. That means that a player just finishing his 2nd year of pro but not having quite finished it yet will be exempt. A pending UFA's salary will count toward the 25%.

Neither of us knows. We'll see how it turns out.

 

[Evil Little]

One of my favourite fairy tales is how the big bad bettman took the jets away, even though all southern expansion ideas plans and pushes were ratified before he was even hired. I

Quite frankly, one of his most significant duties is taking heat for billionaires.

 

[rahzar]

Beytman "drives the train" but he stops at every station the BOG tells him to.

Agreed the heavy lifting on decisions is probably done, but it will be something the big as a consensus has reached, its not as if bettmans is making plans and firxi g them upon the teams. He listens to what they as a group and individuals say they wants and does his best to insure all parties are happy and profitable.


One of my favourite fairy tales is how the big bad bettman took the jets away, even though all southern expansion ideas plans and pushes were ratified before he was even hired. I

I don't get all the hate he gets.
My favourite is a good friend thinks he has fixed the league, and actively works to prevent a Canadian team from winning the Cup.

 

[cheswick]

Pavelec.

Oh, you mean 2 as in backup.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

It'll be a team filled with number 4 defencemen, number 8 forwards and number 2 goalies. Lower top end talent, but higher bottom end talent then other teams.

All things being equal they are at best going to be picking team's #4 D or their #8 F or #2 G. If they are smart they mix it up and pick some prospects and AHL types with potential along the way. They can fill in the gaps with free agents. I'd be surprised if they end up a playoff team but they won't be a typical expansion team.

The point was the NHL can make the rules any way they see fit. They don't have to be fair or make sense.

You are both ignoring the need to protect 2nd year pros and draft picks who are unsigned after 2 years. Those 2 provisions add a huge number of players to the pool. Players who haven't even made it to the NHL yet. For example if Connor stays in school he would have to be protected. AC, that is why I am arguing for the more literal use of the July 1 cutoff date. That date would remove Connor from the list.

 

[Aavco Cup]

You are both ignoring the need to protect 2nd year pros and draft picks who are unsigned after 2 years. Those 2 provisions add a huge number of players to the pool. Players who haven't even made it to the NHL yet. For example if Connor stays in school he would have to be protected. AC, that is why I am arguing for the more literal use of the July 1 cutoff date. That date would remove Connor from the list.

The rules for unsigned prospects being exempt don't have to be identical to the contract salary provisions. It's not that hard really.

The way I understand things Connor Roslovic Foley Appleton would still be exempt.

Franklin Poolman Kraskovsky would not.

 

[Evil Little]

You are both ignoring the need to protect 2nd year pros and draft picks who are unsigned after 2 years. Those 2 provisions add a huge number of players to the pool. Players who haven't even made it to the NHL yet. For example if Connor stays in school he would have to be protected. AC, that is why I am arguing for the more literal use of the July 1 cutoff date. That date would remove Connor from the list.

Quite frankly, I think the bolded is dropped.

What good is a bunch of collegiate players/Euro pros going to provide for a Las Vegas team that still needs to hit the cap floor versus how much it'll piss off the Leafs, for example, who are likely to litter the back half of their draft this year with tiny Russians on KHL contracts (though this year's draftees would be exempt and the Leafs don't have a hell-of-a-lot to protect anyway)?

 

[drumzan]

Glad somebody caught that. LOL...

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

The rules for unsigned prospects being exempt don't have to be identical to the contract salary provisions. It's not that hard really.

The way I understand things Connor Roslovic Foley Appleton would still be exempt.

Franklin Poolman Kraskovsky would not.

True, as you have said before they can make any rule they like. Bettman is a lawyer. He thinks like a lawyer. I think they will be consistent. July 1 will be used and pending UFAs without NMCs will count as exposed. Their salaries will contribute to the 25%. Players whose 3rd year pro or 3rd year since being drafted doesn't start untill July 1 will be exempt. JMO of course but it makes the whole package of provisions make a lot more sense to me.

You disagree because no expansion team would waste a draft pick on a UFA. Fine, they don't get taken then. There will be lots of other players available. Maybe LV chooses to take 1 or 2 UFAs and try to sign them before July 1. They have lots of cap space. They have 30 picks. But if not so what?

Meanwhile it makes meeting the 25% requirement a lot more reasonable for most teams. Doing it that way gets to what you described. A team made up mostly of #4D and #8 F. Even so a few higher ones will slip in along with possibly 1 or 2 much higher UFAs. That would be very good by the usual expansion team standards.

 

[Whileee]

Thread is like this (#1144 and counting)....

 

[Aavco Cup]

True, as you have said before they can make any rule they like. Bettman is a lawyer. He thinks like a lawyer. I think they will be consistent. July 1 will be used and pending UFAs without NMCs will count as exposed. Their salaries will contribute to the 25%. Players whose 3rd year pro or 3rd year since being drafted doesn't start untill July 1 will be exempt. JMO of course but it makes the whole package of provisions make a lot more sense to me.

You disagree because no expansion team would waste a draft pick on a UFA. Fine, they don't get taken then. There will be lots of other players available. Maybe LV chooses to take 1 or 2 UFAs and try to sign them before July 1. They have lots of cap space. They have 30 picks. But if not so what?

Meanwhile it makes meeting the 25% requirement a lot more reasonable for most teams. Doing it that way gets to what you described. A team made up mostly of #4D and #8 F. Even so a few higher ones will slip in along with possibly 1 or 2 much higher UFAs. That would be very good by the usual expansion team standards.

The point you are missing is the purpose of the 25% rule. The new team has to reach the floor of the SC range. If they make rules that allow team(s) to avoid providing contracts with salary attached then it becomes difficult for them to do so. It's not about being reasonable for existing teams. Its about being reasonable for the new team joining the league. It's only 1 player after all (if only Vegas)

 

[YWGinYYZ]

Thread is like this (#1144 and counting)....

Whoops.

BRB - I have a thread I have to make.