Confirmed with Link: Jets acquire Joe Morrow from Montreal for 4th round pick (2018)

Georgetown Al

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Well in the last few years Chevy and his team have brought in defensive stalwarts such as Brian Strait and Andrew MacWilliam and moved up to draft Logan Stanley, so.... ;)

Well Stanley is still developing and Brian Strait only played 5 games for the Jets and 58 for the Moose so a Moose plug...

Andrew MacWilliam played zero games for our Jets and 72 games on the Moose...

So what's your point again?...
 
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Jun 15, 2013
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How is that in comparison to other 7 / 8 D?

Great question! Lets compare apples to apples when discussing players on league minimum salaries.

Chevy making positive statements about Morrow should be taken within the same context as those he made about Strait. Just because quotes are made like "he's been on our radar for a long time" shouldn't imply he feels they have potential beyond what they are.

Every team needs players making league minimum & identifying quality ones is as tough a scouting job as any.
 

JetsUK

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Never liked Morrow as a player? You must be a hell of a hockey fan to have followed a perennial press box sitter closely enough to make that statement.

I follow the Winterhawks and I've got family who are STH in Montreal. I hear way more than I want to, in excruciating detail, about any slug who's pulled on a Habs uniform -- especially when he used to play for a hated rival.
 

Aavco Cup

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Is it possible that we'd rather form our opinions with our own eyes?

Or possibly, we put more emphases on present, than the past?

Could be that some believe environmental influences that existed with another team, will not be present with the current team?

Or a little of all of the above.

Has a player ever improved due to a change in scenery? Yup

Or he's maybe he's just another Keaton Ellerby
 
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I follow the Winterhawks and I've got family who are STH in Montreal. I hear way more than I want to, in excruciating detail, about any slug who's pulled on a Habs uniform -- especially when he used to play for a hated rival.

So you didn't like him on the Winterhawks then? What deficiencies did you see in his game when he led them in defensive scoring his final two years? That team had the best regular season record in the WHL & Morrow was the WHL's 1st team all star. I doubt any Winterhawks fans were complaining about him.

Everything I've read about him thus far begins with an outstanding training camp in his draft year in Pittsburgh. He almost made the team & was their final cut, being sent back to junior where he had the season I just described.

Knee injuries apparently play a role in his development in junior, but throughout his pro career there's been none. Hard to get injured when not on the ice. He's been a healthy scratch 2/3'rds of his NHL career & that's a recipe for disaster with a young player. His lone time lost to injury was an extreme case of the flu.

NHL scouts viewed him very highly until recently. He's been traded multiple times but examining the trades in context show that he's been traded for some rather decent players.

Krug, Chara & Seidenberg all naturally played ahead of him at LD in Boston so he became a fixture in the press box. The games he did get in often had him play as the 6th defensemen on his off side at RD.

He remained a press box filler in Montreal which brought him to Winnipeg for a 4th rounder.
 
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Gm0ney

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Well Stanley is still developing and Brian Strait only played 5 games for the Jets and 58 for the Moose so a Moose plug...

Andrew MacWilliam played zero games for our Jets and 72 games on the Moose...

So what's your point again?...
Oh, my point was that Chevy and his team have a pretty shitty record when it comes to acquiring pro defensemen, so suggesting that record counters the notion that Morrow is a bad defenseman is a weak argument.

I didn't mean to muddy the waters by bringing Stanley into it - amateur scouting actually gets some benefit of the doubt that pro scouting hasn't earned...but nobody's perfect. ;)
 
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Oh, my point was that Chevy and his team have a pretty ****ty record when it comes to acquiring pro defensemen, so suggesting that record counters the notion that Morrow is a bad defenseman is a weak argument.

I didn't mean to muddy the waters by bringing Stanley into it - amateur scouting actually gets some benefit of the doubt that pro scouting hasn't earned...but nobody's perfect. ;)

With Enstrom, Morrissey, Kulikov, Byfuglien, Trouba & Myers on the roster & the highest paid defence in the NHL, who do you feel Chevy should have acquired?

7/8 D are league minimum veterans. You not getting Shea Weber at the price, you're getting Cam Schilling.
 

Gm0ney

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With Enstrom, Morrissey, Kulikov, Byfuglien, Trouba & Myers on the roster & the highest paid defence in the NHL, who do you feel Chevy should have acquired?

7/8 D are league minimum veterans. You not getting Shea Weber at the price, you're getting Cam Schilling.
I feel he should've acquired borderline NHL defensemen at least. Not guys so bad they make Mark Stuart look like a decent opti- HEY WAIT A MINUTE!
 

garret9

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Is it possible that we'd rather form our opinions with our own eyes?

Or possibly, we put more emphases on present, than the past?

Could be that some believe environmental influences that existed with another team, will not be present with the current team?

Or a little of all of the above.

Has a player ever improved due to a change in scenery? Yup

Nowhere do I see myself saying people can’t form their own opinions.

I don’t see where I said players don’t improve from some scenery change.

That said... Anything is possible. Not all is most probable.

I only was countering the difference between rational reaction to Morrow performing poorly relative to if Stastny had performed poorly in his debut.

I’m not even against the trade, as I think it was merely to grab a cheap RFA to safe some cap space for bonuses.
 
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JetsFan815

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With Enstrom, Morrissey, Kulikov, Byfuglien, Trouba & Myers on the roster & the highest paid defence in the NHL, who do you feel Chevy should have acquired?

Cody Franson (was playing on the top pairing of the Blackhawks just 3-4 months ago and has great results)
Paul Postma (Solid results, great #7)
Michael Kempny (Played a decent chunk of games with the hawks, decent results)

Or just stood pat and played Poolman.

Also the trade should not be judged on how he compares to the average 7/8th dman, it should based on how he compares to other dmen available for the same price or lower at the deadline.

I have read that salary cap considerations might have had something to do with this trade but if that's case I wish they had somehow moved Matthias, even if it was just for future considerations
 
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KingBogo

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Oh, my point was that Chevy and his team have a pretty ****ty record when it comes to acquiring pro defensemen, so suggesting that record counters the notion that Morrow is a bad defenseman is a weak argument.

I didn't mean to muddy the waters by bringing Stanley into it - amateur scouting actually gets some benefit of the doubt that pro scouting hasn't earned...but nobody's perfect. ;)
Not sure how valid of an argument this is. The only defenseman ever brought in to play an actual role in the top 6 was Kulikov. All the others were deep depth players, more often than not destined for the Moose. Even Morrow is #5 on LHD at NHL minimum. The other 2 you mentioned were even deeper depth Moose players. If Chevy was bringing in $5M tire fires to play actual roles you would have a point.
 
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Cody Franson (was playing on the top pairing of the Blackhawks just 3-4 months ago and has great results)
Paul Postma (Solid results, great #7)
Michael Kempny (Played a decent chunk of games with the hawks, decent results)

Or just stood pat and played Poolman.

Also the trade should not be judged on how he compares to the average 7/8th dman, it should based on how he compares to other dmen available for the same price or lower at the deadline.

I have read that salary cap considerations might have had something to do with this trade but if that's case I wish they had somehow moved Matthias, even if it was just for future considerations

Matthias is still injured. Tough to trade an injured player at the deadline. That's a bit unrealistic expectation don't you think? It was also reported that Chevy was trying to trade Matthias since Christmas. Perhaps if he was healthy he would have found a new home.
 
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MrBoJangelz71

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Nowhere do I see myself saying people can’t form their own opinions.

I don’t see where I said players don’t improve from some scenery change.

That said... Anything is possible. Not all is most probable.

I only was countering the difference between rational reaction to Morrow performing poorly relative to if Stastny had performed poorly in his debut.

I’m not even against the trade, as I think it was merely to grab a cheap RFA to safe some cap space for bonuses.

You asked a specific question, I gave you plausible explanations.
 

garret9

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You asked a specific question, I gave you plausible explanations.

Those are not answers to my question, especially given the context of the discussion... questioning how those would act if Stastny struggled in his first game.

I'm pointing out that the two would not be comparable as the history of the two individuals is different.
 

JetsUK

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So you didn't like him on the Winterhawks then? What deficiencies did you see in his game when he led them in defensive scoring his final two years? That team had the best regular season record in the WHL & Morrow was the WHL's 1st team all star. I doubt any Winterhawks fans were complaining about him.

Everything I've read about him thus far begins with an outstanding training camp in his draft year in Pittsburgh. He almost made the team & was their final cut, being sent back to junior where he had the season I just described.

Knee injuries apparently play a role in his development in junior, but throughout his pro career there's been none. Hard to get injured when not on the ice. He's been a healthy scratch 2/3'rds of his NHL career & that's a recipe for disaster with a young player. His lone time lost to injury was an extreme case of the flu.

NHL scouts viewed him very highly until recently. He's been traded multiple times but examining the trades in context show that he's been traded for some rather decent players.

Krug, Chara & Seidenberg all naturally played ahead of him at LD in Boston so he became a fixture in the press box. The games he did get in often had him play as the 6th defensemen on his off side at RD.

He remained a press box filler in Montreal which brought him to Winnipeg for a 4th rounder.

No, I was not a big fan of him even in Portland. He was defensively meh, and had his stats buttressed by a powerhouse offence. He has always lacked the positioning, broad skillset and overall headiness of a player like JMo. Not sure what he brings over and above a Poolman or Chairot, and not sure why we gave up a 4th for, essentially, waiver fodder.

That being said, he's a Jet now, and I hope he does well. And if he turns out to be the dependable PMD we need at the bottom of the roster who can step in and play 20 mins a night from the press box, I'll be as happy as the next Jets fan. Just don't think he's likely to reward the faith due a genuine project player who's bound to shine in a new role on a new team.
 

MrBoJangelz71

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Those are not answers to my question, especially given the context of the discussion... questioning how those would act if Stastny struggled in his first game.

I'm pointing out that the two would not be comparable as the history of the two individuals is different.

Shouldn't that go without saying?

One player with 800 games and 600 plus points, the other with 100 games and 20 points.

But with Morrow, he has some tools that might fit better with our squad than Montreal or Bostons, so I would hesitate to define him solely off his past.
 

Jimby

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garret9

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Shouldn't that go without saying?

One player with 800 games and 600 plus points, the other with 100 games and 20 points.

But with Morrow, he has some tools that might fit better with our squad than Montreal or Bostons, so I would hesitate to define him solely off his past.

Yet someone brought it up, which is where my reply came from... so I guess not.

I also think people over exaggerate "fit". Most of these things are about deployment effects (qoc, qot, ozs, etc) rather than fit, with some caveats of psychological impacts as well.
 

Wizard204

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Cody Franson (was playing on the top pairing of the Blackhawks just 3-4 months ago and has great results)
Paul Postma (Solid results, great #7)
Michael Kempny (Played a decent chunk of games with the hawks, decent results)

Or just stood pat and played Poolman.

Also the trade should not be judged on how he compares to the average 7/8th dman, it should based on how he compares to other dmen available for the same price or lower at the deadline.

I have read that salary cap considerations might have had something to do with this trade but if that's case I wish they had somehow moved Matthias, even if it was just for future considerations
I don’t know where all this postma love is coming from. This guy can’t stick on any deep nhl lineup. Yes he can provide some offence from the backend but is just terrible in his own zone, which could be cause he has no physicality ability. He guy constantly got walked around, injured and beat to pucks when he was here. The guy is 29 and nobody claimed him on waivers, no way I would want him on the roster.
 
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garret9

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I don’t know where all this postma love is coming from. This guy can’t stick on any deep nhl lineup. Yes he can provide some offence from the backend but is just terrible in his own zone, which could be cause he has no physicality ability. He guy constantly got walked around, injured and beat to pucks when he was here. The guy is 29 and nobody claimed him on waivers, no way I would want him on the roster.

When you’re talking depth defenders, they all have warts.

Postma at least did well in shot and goal differentials despite his flaws.

Actually, lack of offense and scoring, at the NHL level, was Postma’s biggest issue.
 

Wizard204

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When you’re talking depth defenders, they all have warts.

Postma at least did well in shot and goal differentials despite his flaws.

Actually, lack of offense and scoring, at the NHL level, was Postma’s biggest issue.
Was his icetime sheltered though because I don’t remember him playing in important situations against main players on other teams?

Was his lack of scoring due to the fact that it was his style of play in junior and in the ahl?
 

garret9

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Was his icetime sheltered though because I don’t remember him playing in important situations against main players on other teams?

Was his lack of scoring due to the fact that it was his style of play in junior and in the ahl?

He was sheltered, just like almost all third pairings are. The results were inflated from sheltering but still good despite.

The latter question I can only guess. I think in part was that in the AHL and junior a lot of the teams offence cycled to his point shot which he was able to get through with ease. At the NHL level the decrease in time and space hurt him, since he was more of a tools defender than smarts.
 

Halberdier

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Last season Postma was great, but only because he was compared to Chiarot(*), Stuart, Melchiori, Nogier, Strait and possibly some other scrubs I forgot already.

(*) Chiapet was definitely not a NHL defenceman last season.

After all they could turn Chiarot into a decent 6th/7th NHL defenceman so let's see what they can do with Morrow.

There were couple of cases I was worried about a bit risky decision making by Morrow, but let's see how he continues. Too bad he did not shoot his rumoured cannon when he had an opportunity to do so.

There is no hurry with Morrow. Let's just hope Toby and Jakob are healthy when the real games begin.
 
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