Player Discussion Jesse Puljujärvi 4th Overall 2016 Draft. Part V: Called Up 11/10/17

[GameChanger]

Pulju hasn't been busting his ass anytime in the last half season. Or any time at all his whole tenure here for more than say a couple game stretches. I see maybe a few shifts a game where he even looks to be involved.

Come on now At some point Jesse was considered a very energetic player, maybe the most energetic winger. Check the Edmonton Journal reviews if you like, more often than not they mention that in Jesse's part. In fact one could argue your favourite player Drai has had more lazy games than Jesse. Certainly fans in this forum have been talking about him as looking lazy at times (though as I've said I do like him as a player), but I don't expect you to see it like that because it's Drai we're talking about.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Many heated opionions from You on Pulju today. To me Your opinions would be somehow more convincing if You bothered to wrote for example like "Pulju has not been busting his ass anytime this half season..." and then You could tell Your evidence, how this is the way You allege.

Claims without substance, lack of "helicopter vision" - this is how I see these heated opinions.

It's like me saying Draisaitl has been mediocre without McDavid. But to me this would be intellectually dishonest, because I pay attention and to me TMac really hasn't help Draisaitl to succeed with constantly changing linemates...

Not meant to offend You... It is allowed to vent here, so please continue...

The player has 3 pts in the last 23GP. Which is WORST on the club from any forward during that duration. The player is also bottom of the list for pts/60mins in 2018. He has 0.50pts/60mins EV in 2018. That is so indescribably bad its incomprehensible from a high first round pick.

These have been quoted and cited as evidence. You were missing from the thread, which is fine, but don't pretend the background isn't there and isn't being discussed.

Note as well that you've seen me make countless posts here in support of Pulju and delineating possible reasons for some of the struggle . So that I have not at all been particularly unreasonable regarding the player. But to see him put forth continued deplorable effort one game after another and eventually there is a breaking point where one goes "what is wrong with this player". I mean his game isn't even discernible at this point.

 

[onetweasy]

One thing is for certain - this franchise could write a best seller on how not to develop prospects.

Anyway, there seems to be 2 schools of thoughts in this thread:

1 - This is the NHL and you don't get many chances so perform or be gone.

2 - This is the NHL and to be a successful franchise you need to spend as much time/money/resources to develop these players as you spent a very valuable draft pick on them and they should be the future of your team.

IMO

#1 is the 1995 view of how to develop and build a team. It's a view that doesn’t put priority on young draft picks and seems to follow the sink or swim model. It is the way a manager was told to manage their workforce in the 80's-90's and early 2000's. Times have changed and so have the people being managed.

#2 is how a modern NHL team should be focused IMO. These players being drafted now are the so called "Millennials" and "Gen Z" generations and they need some hand holding like it or not. This is not a bad thing at all. It is just a different way of managing people to get the most out of them and the NHL is a dinosaur in this regard. It is still very much a "square peg into a round hole" type of league.

With a salary cap, so much success will come from drafting and developing prospects that is mind blowing to me that this franchise doesn’t do every single thing in their power to develop their prospects.

 

[MoneyGuy]

Almost the entire team has given up on this season, maybe Pulju more than most. They shouldn't but who can really blame them. Yeah, they're paid well and should play hard but it's human nature. He'll be back in the fall ready to go.

 

[Drivesaitl]

^^ Even modern teams like Tampa cut bait on players that are not showing anything. Frankly the only place Pulju would be in Tampa is with their AHL franchise. Hoping to hone any facet of a NA game there.

You can bring the horse to water..

Theres plenty of reasons to blame the org, and I've spent most of my time doing that in relation to this player. But at some point the player starts figuring out that adhering to team strategy, while finding a way to inject their own game are not mutually exclusive things. I mean really all the successful players in the league learn to do it.

Even on this team Slepy and Pacman have received far worse treatment than Pulju and they have been, overall, better players. Pacman due to his physicality, very good pk play, and bringing honest minutes on every shift. Slepy because when on he's extremely physical, aggressive, fast on the forcheck, moving the puck well and working well when he gets the rare chance with McD or Drai (especially Drai) Florida game alone was a very good game from Slepy. He has every reason to think this club screwed him after a brilliant playoff performance last season. He isn't sulking about it, he's shown at least some determination to show the org reasons to play him.

Yet Slepy and Pak have been benched and scratched continuously while Pulju has stayed in the lineup throughout 2018 and yet all we here is "team done him wrong" themes.

 

[CycloneSweep]

^^ Even modern teams like Tampa cut bait on players that are not showing anything. Frankly the only place Pulju would be in Tampa is with their AHL franchise. Hoping to hone any facet of a NA game there.

You can bring the horse to water..

Theres plenty of reasons to blame the org, and I've spent most of my time doing that in relation to this player. But at some point the player starts figuring out that adhering to team strategy, while finding a way to inject their own game are not mutually exclusive things. I mean really all the successful players in the league learn to do it.

Even on this team Slepy and Pacman have received far worse treatment than Pulju and they have been, overall, better players. Pacman due to his physicality, very good pk play, and bringing honest minutes on every shift. Slepy because when on he's extremely physical, aggressive, fast on the forcheck, moving the puck well and working well when he gets the rare chance with McD or Drai (especially Drai) Florida game alone was a very good game from Slepy. He has every reason to think this club screwed him after a brilliant playoff performance last season. He isn't sulking about it, he's shown at least some determination to show the org reasons to play him.

Yet Slepy and Pak have been benched and scratched continuously while Pulju has stayed in the lineup throughout 2018 and yet all we here is "team done him wrong" themes.

I don't think Pulju should of been scratched. Just sent down to the AHL where he is actually a top 6 winger.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I don't think Pulju should of been scratched. Just sent down to the AHL where he is actually a top 6 winger.

On this AHL team anybody is a topsix player at least some of the time..

The Golden Bears could possibly beat our AHL squad.

 

[CycloneSweep]

On this AHL team anybody is a topsix player at least some of the time..

The Golden Bears could possibly beat our AHL squad.

To be fair...Pulju was probably our 4th best winger when he was down there.
He might of been better with a better center to play with but we will never know.
Currie, Rattie and Laleggia were the best forwards down there, period.

 

[Aerrol]

One thing is for certain - this franchise could write a best seller on how not to develop prospects.
...
With a salary cap, so much success will come from drafting and developing prospects that is mind blowing to me that this franchise doesn’t do every single thing in their power to develop their prospects.

*this franchise doesn't do anything at all in their power to develop their prospects.

Fixed it for you!

 

[McDreamy]

Replacement's stubborness vs Finnish homerism. This thread is gonna hit 1k pages by the end of the week.

 

[McDNicks17]

Just seems like his usage is completely devoid of any logic.

It's pretty obvious he was drafted with him playing on McDavid's wing in mind. Now if you're grooming this player to play with McDavid, I wonder if actually playing him with McDavid would be a good way to do that?

The crazy thing is the alternatives that are being played with McDavid aren't better players and likely won't even be with the organization next season.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Come on now At some point Jesse was considered a very energetic player, maybe the most energetic winger. Check the Edmonton Journal reviews if you like, more often than not they mention that in Jesse's part. In fact one could argue your favourite player Drai has had more lazy games than Jesse. Certainly fans in this forum have been talking about him as looking lazy at times (though as I've said I do like him as a player), but I don't expect you to see it like that because it's Drai we're talking about.

The NHL variety of energy players is somebody that brings that on every shift. There isn't one game on record where Pulju has done that consistently.

Most energetic? Forget it. Maroon, Khaira easily had that over Pulju pretty much every game.

The EJ writers here are terrible. They just are not good hockey scribes. Hardly anybody serious about evaluating hockey players checks those guys out.
The Journal is a dying paper with declining readership that even outsources work from postmedia news. One of the least respected news sources in the country.

Jones is mailing it in and everybody things he's a joke here. (nobody in Edmonton will disagree with the comment) Matheson is simply a lifer that writes his articles between taking his periodic naps. His comments are random and don't even reflect watching the games.

Staples is a former poster here that was laughed off the board for his silly errors stat and such spurious attempts at quantification.

I'll give you this actual exchange that occurred here years ago:

Staples: Of course I count faceoff losses as errors, why wouldn't I?

Rest of board: Because then you put Centers, or anybody taking a faceoff at an immediate disadvantage in your stat and the results being that in your metric that every center will suck at errors compared to every winger. It makes your metric incomparable.

Staples: So what, I'll account for that.

Pundits: But why include faceoffs when you don't need to be including that in your evaluation and shouldn't be?

Staples: Because a lost faceoff is an error in my metric.


Discussing hockey evaluation with Staples is like talking to wood.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Replacement's stubborness vs Finnish homerism. This thread is gonna hit 1k pages by the end of the week.

Its a shitty Monday in a long winter and we just got snowed on here all weekend. Haven't seen the sun in about 4 days here in Edmonton..Winter already 6mths long here.

That maybe explains a bit of the surliness.

 

[Aerrol]

Its a ****ty Monday in a long winter and we just got snowed on here all weekend. Haven't seen the sun in about 4 days here in Edmonton..Winter already 6mths long here.

That maybe explains a bit of the surliness.

Can confirm that my increased posting today is in part due to how little I want to be at work today.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Just seems like his usage is completely devoid of any logic.

It's pretty obvious he was drafted with him playing on McDavid's wing in mind. Now if you're grooming this player to play with McDavid, I wonder if actually playing him with McDavid would be a good way to do that?

The crazy thing is the alternatives that are being played with McDavid aren't better players and likely won't even be with the organization next season.

The team is desperately trying to get McD one plum. Just to keep him in the pts derby and hoping he can be somewhat happy with that in this disaster of a season. They even put Nuge there with him to load up and even some super charged shifts with McD, Drai, Nuge.

I'm sure putting the coldest player on the team, Pulju, who has 3pts in last 23 GP, and who has 0.50pts/60mins EV in 2018 (as cited in thread) doesn't immediately occur to them as a bonafide way to boost McD's production.

Pulju will have to demonstrate some fight, some try, to get out of this.

His name Isn't Lucic.

 

[PulYou]

The player has 3 pts in the last 23GP. Which is WORST on the club from any forward during that duration. The player is also bottom of the list for pts/60mins in 2018. He has 0.50pts/60mins EV in 2018. That is so indescribably bad its incomprehensible from a high first round pick.

This is exactly where one needs "helicopter vision". It is required for good managers among others... This is the period when Pulju has been greatly mismanaged by TMac.

Someone wrote prior in this thread, that there was no difference whether Pulju was playing top six or bottom six. There's Your evidence. It's been 24 games since he played regularly with top six. 24 games and four points. 24 games where his linemates were constantly shuffled, he was playing on his offside for some games (don't brother counting this for You), getting benched (two or three shifts at second period) and having those TOI "filled" at the very end of the third period and so on...

If You were following, You would have noticed? Or You just don't evaluate the information You receive? Sorry - just could not help myself...

 

[GameChanger]

But to see him put forth continued deplorable effort one game after another and eventually there is a breaking point where one goes "what is wrong with this player". I mean his game isn't even discernible at this point.

You're making it sound like it's been like that for ages, which is not true. I can guarantee one can find much more comments about Drai looking lazy than Jesse. Both from fans and Edmonton Journal, which is not perfect, but it's obviously the only media following players game by game. As for Drai, he is a good player at his best, but he's been pretty inconsistent, which will hopefully change as he matures. As his fan you should know it's not that easy to put the best effort throughout the whole year.

 

[PaPaDee]

If we had a decent top 6 and/or we were in a playoff race, I could at least appreciate/understand why he's not getting top 6 minutes and/or PP time. But given where we're at, why isn't he getting opportunities to build confidence and show us what he's got for next year?

 

[McDNicks17]

There's two distinct ways players are developed in recent years.

1) Bring them along slow. Start them lower in the lineup and have them work their way up.

2) Put the player in a position to succeed in the role you expect them to play.


The former has basically been gospel because of the 90s/00s Red Wings, but in current day, it's had it's doors blown off by the latter.

Look at any of the good young players in the league right now. None(or a very small number) started on the 4th line with no special teams.

Teams like Boston had McAvoy on the top pairing the second he stepped on the ice. Tampa had Point in their top6. The Islanders had Barzal in the top6 and on the #1 PP unit. DeBrincat was immediately put with Toews. Connor with Scheifele/Wheeler. Buchnevich with Zibanejad/Kreider. Dubois with Panarin/Anderson. The list goes on and on.


It's time for the Oilers to wake up, put him with RNH and McDavid on the 1st line and give him that left faceoff dot on the PP.

Putting players in a position to fail, in a role you don't want them to play and expecting them to fight out of it is a dead philosophy.

 

[PulYou]

Replacement's stubborness vs Finnish homerism. This thread is gonna hit 1k pages by the end of the week.

Hope You are entertained though... Here...

 

[GameChanger]

The EJ writers here are terrible.

You may have some point there, but I honestly believe a part of you thinking they're terrible is because you haven't liked the grades or reviews they've given to Drai this season. He's had some terrific games, but more bad games that he maybe should've for his salary. And I know you don't like hearing that, you know that too.

Drai is a young guy and may have something against TM, too, so I understand him quite well, but he does have room for development there. Think about it, he may have some great games, but also games where he gets the lowest grades of the forwards and where the other fans see his game bad or terrible. So maybe it's not as easy to keep one's highest level game after game as you seem to expect from Jesse.

E: I had counted the player grades during Jesse's nine first games, and at that time Jesse's was the highest of the team and Drai's average and behind Lucic, Pakarinen, Caggiula and Camalleri.

 

[MoneyGuy]

Replacement's stubborness vs Finnish homerism. This thread is gonna hit 1k pages by the end of the week.

 

[Drivesaitl]

This is exactly where one needs "helicopter vision". It is required for good managers among others... This is the period when Pulju has been greatly mismanaged by TMac.

Someone wrote prior in this thread, that there was no difference whether Pulju was playing top six or bottom six. There's Your evidence. It's been 24 games since he played regularly with top six. 24 games and four points. 24 games where his linemates were constantly shuffled, he was playing on his offside for some games (don't brother counting this for You), getting benched (two or three shifts at second period) and having those TOI "filled" at the very end of the third period and so on...

If You were following, You would have noticed? Or You just don't evaluate the information You receive? Sorry - just could not help myself...

Pulju is presently having repeated stints with Draisaitl. How is tht not topsix?

I have no idea what you mean either. How is what the other poster posted evidence of where Pulju has played? It isn't.

I honestly have no idea what this latest reply from you is about. Its hard to follow.

 

[VainGretzky]

His career is too raw to make any determination. Just 2 weeks ago we were hearing how useless Rattie was and not even close to a NHL player . Impaintence on players is the downfall to any organization. Lets look at Puljujarvi skill set . I did this with Nurse when everyone was calling him to stupid to be good. Puljujarvi is a great skater with size and a hard shot his only con is he has no confidence right now . And why is this he is playing not to make a mistake instead of playing to contribute , if Tmac is canned I can see Puljujarvi arriving next season

 

[VainGretzky]

Pulju is presently having repeated stints with Draisaitl. How is tht not topsix?

I have no idea what you mean either. How is what the other poster posted evidence of where Pulju has played? It isn't.

I honestly have no idea what this latest reply from you is about. Its hard to follow.

you do realize at this age Draisaitl had 9 pts in 37 games right ?