Confirmed with Link: Jason Botterill Hired As General Manager -- MOD WARNING #1851

[Dreakon13]

Show improvement. If he can’t, in light of how ****ing good Vegas was with scraps, what’s the justification for NOT firing him? GMs usually get 3?

This is going to get frustrating quickly. I don't think people realize how much easier it is to build a championship culture from scratch, with a group of talented guys with chips on their shoulders... than it is to 180 a broken culture, with top end talent and potential attitude issues and no depth. Not to take credit away from McPhee because he had to pick the right guys, from the players to the coaches to management beneath him, and he seized the opportunity as an expansion team with a blank slate... but it's an opportunity that just doesn't apply to a team that's been in the league for nearly 50 years and bad for the last 10.

For the league, Vegas success is a great thing. For fans of a bottom feeder, its a nightmare. All it does is give people the idea that the scorched earth method of team building (fire everyone trade everyone start from scratch), that rarely happens and even less often actually works out, should happen every year you don't have a championship team. "Because Vegas".

 

[truthbluth]

This is going to get frustrating quickly. I don't think people realize how much easier it is to build a championship culture from scratch, with a group of talented guys with chips on their shoulders... than it is to 180 a broken culture, with top end talent and potential attitude issues and no depth. Not to take credit away from McPhee because he had to pick the right guys, from the players to the coaches to management beneath him, and he seized the opportunity as an expansion team with a blank slate... but it's an opportunity that just doesn't apply to a team that's been in the league for nearly 50 years and bad for the last 10.

For the league, Vegas success is a great thing. For fans of a bottom feeder, its a nightmare. All it does is give people the idea that the scorched earth method of team building (fire everyone trade everyone start from scratch), that rarely happens and even less often actually works out, should happen every year you don't have a championship team. "Because Vegas".

Bullshit. Vegas is good because they are made up entirely of good players. There are no bums in that team. The Sabres lineup from any given night last year has at least 7, and as many as 11 guys that aren’t good enough to crack the Vegas lineup.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

Bull****. Vegas is good because they are made up entirely of good players. There are no bums in that team. The Sabres lineup from any given night last year has at least 7, and as many as 11 guys that aren’t good enough to crack the Vegas lineup.

When you call them "scraps" in one post and then "good players" in another, I'm not sure posters know exactly what point you're trying to make.

FWIW, I think it was a combination of acquiring players that were better individually than many people thought. Players that had talent but not quite the TOI or trust yet from their former teams...or simply were cap/salary casualties in a few examples. In addition, they brought a chip and the attitude of proving people wrong (even though that attitude is misplaced, imo). Combine untapped potential with a motivation not had by many players (as a result of guaranteed contracts), and you get a team that's better than expected and actually trying hard all season. One more thing is the trust and patience from the HC and front office, and you get a whole organization believing in itself.

Nice story, and I can only hope some other clubs around the league learn from it, even if I don't agree with the premise of the expansion draft. No current clubs can copy that, quite obviously. Botterill and any other GM just can't be compared to that scenario where it's a situation about very favorable expansion rules.

 

[Dreakon13]

Bull****. Vegas is good because they are made up entirely of good players. There are no bums in that team. The Sabres lineup from any given night last year has at least 7, and as many as 11 guys that aren’t good enough to crack the Vegas lineup.

I agree. But it's easier (not easy, just easier) to pluck a decent team off of a long list of exposed players that teams typically wouldn't give up for free and embrace the 'misfit toys' angle... then it is to not only build a team's worth of depth in one year from trades, free agency and waivers, but fix the already broken lockerroom in the process (especially when, from the outside looking in, its unclear where the issues in the room are coming from and how to deal with it if the problem stems from key players).

The "expansion draft" opportunity comes once in a blue moon. McPhee, to his credit, seized it. It's silly to compare our situation to theirs.

 

[Icicle]

The Coyotes did what I'd call 'scorched earth' last season, and they were absolutely awful until they acquired a decent goalie. It's as if goalies can make a huge impact beyond their raw numbers.

 

[truthbluth]

I agree. But it's easier (not easy, just easier) to pluck a decent team off of a long list of exposed players that teams typically wouldn't give up for free and embrace the 'misfit toys' angle... then it is to not only build a team's worth of depth in one year from trades, free agency and waivers, but fix the already broken lockerroom in the process (especially when, from the outside looking in, its unclear where the issues in the room are coming from and how to deal with it if the problem stems from key players).

The "expansion draft" opportunity comes once in a blue moon. McPhee, to his credit, seized it. It's silly to compare our situation to theirs.

It’s not a direct comparison, but Vegas does show that a team doesn’t need a decade of top ten picks to be good. The lesson is, don’t put f***ing Matt Moulson or Benoit Pouliot (among others) in your opening day lineup. It takes longer without an expansion draft obviously, but the Sabres fairly openly need 2 top 6 defensemen, 1 top 6 winger, a 3rd line center and better depth wingers. Oh yeah, and at least a split duty starting goalie. And he has to find somewhere to stash a sizable complement of dead weight on this roster. That’s his assignment. How far he falls short of that should impact how much longer he gets.

 

[Dreakon13]

It’s not a direct comparison, but Vegas does show that a team doesn’t need a decade of top ten picks to be good. The lesson is, don’t put ****ing Matt Moulson or Benoit Pouliot (among others) in your opening day lineup. It takes longer without an expansion draft obviously, but the Sabres fairly openly need 2 top 6 defensemen, 1 top 6 winger, a 3rd line center and better depth wingers. Oh yeah, and at least a split duty starting goalie. And he has to find somewhere to stash a sizable complement of dead weight on this roster. That’s his assignment. How far he falls short of that should impact how much longer he gets.

That's not exactly a light order. I'd like to see them fill all those spots with capable players, obviously... but without a draft to filter those players to you, you're at the mercy of who's actually available, the price tags they come with and in some cases, their interest in Buffalo.

I'm definitely interested in seeing how Botts does and I've said it numerous times that if his offseason doesn't consist of more than some fringe player signings (Dahlin aside since that fell in his lap), I'll be right there with the mob of angry fans. I just kind of wish the mob would wait until after Botts f***s up this offseason to bring out the torches and pitchforks, instead of just assuming he will to save some time and get it out of the way early.

 

[OkimLom]

I think he should get 3. Housley also. Obviously if Quenneville became available or something you go after him.

If they show very small improvement (for example a 10 point improvement) or go backwards in their play, then Housley and Botts' seats need to be on fire. IF Botts improves the quality of talent on the team and Housley fails, then Housley needs to be let go and Botts kept on and given a 2nd chance to find a coach. Of course that would come with a VERY VERY short leash. If Botts does or fails to do the bare minimum of improving this team and Housley fails but shows improvement in the standings then Botts needs have his job re-evaluated and if needed, fired. Housley's job should be left up to the new GM.

IMO, this team if insulated with better support players, has the core talent to at least contend for a playoff spot. If they aren't doing that in March or April, then something needs to happen with one or both of them.

 

[OkimLom]

Bull****. Vegas is good because they are made up entirely of good players. There are no bums in that team. The Sabres lineup from any given night last year has at least 7, and as many as 11 guys that aren’t good enough to crack the Vegas lineup.

Vegas is good because they have a team built of vets (average age of 26.9), they have a good to great coach in Gallant, a veteran in the nets, they all have a singular motivation for their players.

McPhee did a good job of building a team out of a larger pool than what he would have in Free Agency, and teams wouldn't be in situation where they have to trade guys in fear of losing another. We will see what he can do with more limitations of players available.

Short term, they did a great job, but long term it remains to be seen what they can do.

 

[Zip15]

If the 18-19 Sabres finish with fewer points than the 16-17 Sabres, with what for the second time should be a better roster than anything Bylsma had, then Housley has to go. If they aren't .500 next season, it's not even a question.

 

[truthbluth]

Vegas is good because they have a team built of vets (average age of 26.9), they have a good to great coach in Gallant, a veteran in the nets, they all have a singular motivation for their players.

McPhee did a good job of building a team out of a larger pool than what he would have in Free Agency, and teams wouldn't be in situation where they have to trade guys in fear of losing another. We will see what he can do with more limitations of players available.

Short term, they did a great job, but long term it remains to be seen what they can do.

That’s true, and I wouldn’t trade organizations with them, because they are going to have to replace their guys that age, or head to free agency IN free agency, and it’ll be much harder to maintain their depth.

The correlation to me is, (and I’m not sure I’ve thought this all the way through), roster building isn’t about high picks and winning lotteries. You should be able to find players that can help.

 

[truthbluth]

That's not exactly a light order. I'd like to see them fill all those spots with capable players, obviously... but without a draft to filter those players to you, you're at the mercy of who's actually available, the price tags they come with and in some cases, their interest in Buffalo.

I'm definitely interested in seeing how Botts does and I've said it numerous times that if his offseason doesn't consist of more than some fringe player signings (Dahlin aside since that fell in his lap), I'll be right there with the mob of angry fans. I just kind of wish the mob would wait until after Botts ****s up this offseason to bring out the torches and pitchforks, instead of just assuming he will to save some time and get it out of the way early.

Nobody is talking about pitchforks. It probably seems that way because some are saying, Botts deserves criticism, others say it’s too early, and then the tone escalated to the point where some of us are SHOUTING, “Botts should be held at least somewhat accountable for the failings of the Sabres!” But the message is still the same. No passes here.

 

[Aladyyn]

I think he should get 3. Housley also. Obviously if Quenneville became available or something you go after him.

Sutter is still unemployed...

 

[Zip15]

Sutter is still unemployed...

I do wonder if they hire Sutter around Thanksgiving if the team ***** its pants out of the gate. He has a working relationship with Payne, and Pegula may feel compelled, at that point, to hire a hard-ass to whip the youngsters into shape

 

[jn]

This is maybe even less than a rumour at this point but it says here (in Swedish) that Carolina and Sabres "want to get hold of Grönborg's phone number" (he is the coach of Tre Kronor, the Swedish national team). He says he doesn't know anything about this but that he would only be interested in a head coach position and that as far as he knows both teams already have coaches.

NHL-klubbar uppges jaga Rikard Grönborg

 

[Chainshot]

This is maybe even less than a rumour at this point but it says here (in Swedish) that Carolina and Sabres "want to get hold of Grönborg's phone number" (he is the coach of Tre Kronor, the Swedish national team). He says he doesn't know anything about this but that he would only be interested in a head coach position and that as far as he knows both teams already have coaches.

NHL-klubbar uppges jaga Rikard Grönborg

The plot thickens. Married to an American, former St. Cloud player... That's some interesting thinking. Might also then get "ZOMG! DAHLEEN GMZ!" threads on the main boards.

 

[Yultron]

Now that we are getting a first for Kane once he signs that contract everyone is going to start praising Botterill . Like I said it wasn’t Botterill’s fault , the fact we are now getting a first round pick is another win for this franchise!

 

[Sabre Dance]

Now that we are getting a first for Kane once he signs that contract everyone is going to start praising Botterill . Like I said it wasn’t Botterill’s fault , the fact we are now getting a first round pick is another win for this franchise!

I have to believe the Sharks told Botterill they were going to sign him. This is happening pretty fast and for a good amount of money.

I did criticize Botterill for not waiting until the buzzer on deadline day, but maybe he knew it would be a 1st.

It was a good trade. About the minimum I expected for Kane. A 1st and a prospect.

 

[Buffaloed]

This is maybe even less than a rumour at this point but it says here (in Swedish) that Carolina and Sabres "want to get hold of Grönborg's phone number" (he is the coach of Tre Kronor, the Swedish national team). He says he doesn't know anything about this but that he would only be interested in a head coach position and that as far as he knows both teams already have coaches.

NHL-klubbar uppges jaga Rikard Grönborg

Pegula: I'm offering $2 million
Grönborg: sorry I'm only interested in being a head coach
Pegula: would $5 million change your mind?
Grönborg: that's hard to refuse but I am totally committed to being a head coach
Pegula: how about $10 million, a private jet, a stable of horses, and a fully stocked fish pond at location of your choice?
Grönborg: I must remain faithful to my principles
Pegula: I raise my offer to ONE BILLION DOLLARS!

Grönborg: I am ready to start work as Dahlin's butler

 

[SabresFan26]

Botts is off to a great off season so far. Still early and plenty of time but good start nonetheless. UFA/Draft will be a huge.

 

[Yultron]

You have a very good point , maybe Botts did know because your right this is happening quickly . At the time I was really upset and mad because I thought it was only going to be a 2nd and a 4th plus O’Ragen. There defs must of been more to the deal that has lead to this . Either way I am now giving the trade an A now opposed to the C+ I gave it Botterill got the 1st round pick for a player with baggage therefor I call this trade a win. So happy I don’t have to speculate whether it will be a 1st or a 2nd anymore

I have to believe the Sharks told Botterill they were going to sign him. This is happening pretty fast and for a good amount of money.

I did criticize Botterill for not waiting until the buzzer on deadline day, but maybe he knew it would be a 1st.

It was a good trade. About the minimum I expected for Kane. A 1st and a prospect.

avw

 

[Yultron]

Botts is off to a great off season so far. Still early and plenty of time but good start nonetheless. UFA/Draft will be a huge.

You got that right , Dahlin , a 2019 1st Round Pick , resigning Casey Nelson and signing Pilut and Oloffson. Now just sign Asplund already and all of the other draft picks ( Hagel , Budik etc) draft well then fill the rest of our needs through free agency and trades

 

[1TuchAnd1NoTuch]

You got that right , Dahlin , a 2019 1st Round Pick , resigning Casey Nelson and signing Pilut and Oloffson. Now just sign Asplund already and all of the other draft picks ( Hagel , Budik etc) draft well than fill the rest of our needs through free agency and trades

Might want to check the other threads I’ve got some good news for you

 

[Yultron]

Might want to check the other threads I’ve got some good news for you

Love the name Rasmus Reichel that’s epic, and yes I just totally saw that we just signed Asplund thanks so much for the update !! Botts is killing it this offseason !

 

[Sabretooth]

Botts is off to a great off season so far. Still early and plenty of time but good start nonetheless. UFA/Draft will be a huge.

It's a great start to the offseason for the sabres, but I don't know what of anything aside from Pilut I would attribute specifically to Botts. The draft lottery, and the 1st rnd upgrade to the kane trade draft pick were not in his control. Signing draft picks to ELC's is baseline competency stuff. The draft well we'll get Dahlin and then it will likely be a couple years before we see how the rest of the draft turns out. So Pilut is a good start I guess but Free Agency, Reinhart's extension/other RFA's, a key trade or 2, and how Botts addresses depth/goaltending (likely overlaps with FA/trades) are the much bigger considerations for judging botts' offseason. I mean don't take this as crapping on botts but to me he's barely started this off season on things he can direct.