Jared Bednar & Co. Discussion Thread

[Pokecheque]

The "he didn't get to choose his own assistants" is such a cop out. While it's true that Pratt and Army were already hired and here, let's not act like he hadn't spent the last several seasons with Pratt on his staff. It's exceptionally likely that Pratt would've been hired anyway.

How is it a cop-out? Just because he had Pratt, he still had Farrish and Army, and barely any time to even get to know those guys or the players before camp started. It's not some blanket excuse but it's not a cop-out either. It's a legit reason he started the season at a disadvantage. The biggest disadvantage was that he was saddled with the worst roster in the National Hockey League.

Losing the room was largely his own fault.

I don't think any coach would've not lost that room, it was destined to fall apart from Day One. But that's MHO.

This isn't supposed to be a re-hash of last season. The guy made some real bad mistakes, I hope he's learned from them (I'd say it looks like he has), and he's done a much better job this season than many of us thought he would this year, myself included. I just take umbrage with wanting to label him a "Top Coach" because his sample size is not even 2 full seasons, but let's call it 2. 1 season was an unacceptable mess resulting in an historically terrible finish and then this season has been a very nice turnaround.

I'm just saying I want to see more of this type of season, because last year was so terrible.

I'm still wondering what the "real bad mistakes" were, but I agree with you in that I wouldn't just label him a "top coach" even with this run of success. I remain cautiously optimistic that the Avs hired the right guy. He's not perfect by any means but so far looks to be the coach they need to take the next step.

I will add to this (and this is not directed at you) that Bednar's supposed "mishandling" of Cody McLeod is largely a myth. He's not an NHL player anymore and was pretty much done by 2015. The mistake was Roy and Sakic giving him a three-year extension in that disastrous 2014 offseason that derailed the new regime not long after it began.

Coaching is so very fickle. Even bench bosses who are considered "elite" have been in at least three different organizations. Scotty Bowman got fired multiple times. Sometimes I think coaches in hockey are akin to managers in baseball--in the end they're not gigantic difference-makers unless you hire a truly awful one.

 

[Foppa2118]

Bednar still has his favorites (Bourque anybody), but he is pretty solid at giving out ice time as it is earned.

I've given Bednar plenty of crap over last year and the summer... but credit where credit is due. This team is looking to be in the mid 90s, which is a solid 10-10+ points above where they should be on paper. His coaching made last year worse, but this year his coaching is making the team better to a pretty good pace. He has pushed the right buttons and has this team playing well. He still has some flaws, but he should be commended for his job this year.

Bourque is definitely not a favorite. He kept him in the minors almost all year last season, and is playing in a pure 4th line role averaging 11:27 in ice time. Played less than 8 minutes against St Louis.

He's doing very well with his time 5 on 5, and on the PK. There's really no one that should be playing ahead of him.

 

[5280]

People forget that young good coaches have to start somewhere. Bednar was the best coach in the AHL when hired.

"What if we pass on a good coach because Bednar" is not a good line of thinking. Bednar could very well be the next "good coach".

He was actually the guy I wanted, too. He has a good pedigree and I like what made him a success in the lower levels. The grass is always greener.

TBF though he did stumble out of the gate. But how much of that was HIS fault, how much was part of the learning curve, and how much of it was being fed to the dogs?

I suppose we’ll find out and have a clearer picture a couple of years down the road.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Bourque is definitely not a favorite. He kept him in the minors almost all year last season, and is playing in a pure 4th line role averaging 11:27 in ice time. Played less than 8 minutes against St Louis.

He's doing very well with his time 5 on 5, and on the PK. There's really no one that should be playing ahead of him.

We'll see who truly is a fave when he has some tough lineup decisions to make assuming Wilson gets healthy and they want to play Kamenev if Bourque sticks in the lineup then or not.

It still astonishes me he was a fave of Bednar and yet was in the minors nearly all season. I think Bednar has control of the callups a lot more now.

 

[Foppa2118]

We'll see who truly is a fave when he has some tough lineup decisions to make assuming Wilson gets healthy and they want to play Kamenev if Bourque sticks in the lineup then or not.

It still astonishes me he was a fave of Bednar and yet was in the minors nearly all season. I think Bednar has control of the callups a lot more now.

He may not be fully in charge of the callups, but he's in charge of the demotions. I've seen a couple comments about Bourque lately, I'm just confused as to where they're coming from. I think he's played his role perfectly. Better than any of the guys he'd be in contention with for the 4th line, and he hasn't really played higher than that.

If anything, I think Wilson gets more favorable treatment. He's a good team guy, but he just can't skate, or handle the puck well enough to play very high in the lineup. He's gotten a decent amount of top 6 time that he shouldn't have. Even when he's on the defecto 3rd line with guys like Kerfoot or Compher, he brings down that line a bit too, because he doesn't have the foot speed, or the puck skills to work well with them.

I like Toninato (though he's had a drop in play the last month) but I think it's a fairly easy call to bench him or Yak ahead of Bourque, when Kamenev comes back. In a fully healthy lineup, it will be tougher, but I think Bourque's PK ability, and physical game, bring more to the table in a 4th line role than Wilson, so I might scratch him over GB personally. Depending on if Ghetto is on his game or not in a top 9 role, he's another option as well.

 

[Balthazar]

Wilson was playing well and deserved his middle 6/PP2 time but then got super sick (had to be tube fed) and wasn't the same after that and Bednad played him much less, then got hurt, then concussed. I disagree that he's got favorable treatment. He's been the most unlucky AVS player this year if anything.

 

[Jixer19]

I am sure it has been stated, but I am pretty sure any coach would have "lost the room" last year with who we had. Just from listening to certain people, sounded like we had 3/4 different "groups" within the locker room. Just my 2 cents worth, which isn't much I know.

I for one enjoy the calm presence Bednar brings to our young players, is he perfect? Far from it, but he is learning and adapting it seems quite well, like our team has been this year.

 

[Foppa2118]

Bednar is good on teaching the details of hockey, and managing this young teams emotions in a tight playoff race. Those are two of his bigger contributions to the team.

His biggest contribution to the Avs though is his handling of MacKinnon. I'm not a huge fan of Bednar's even keel demeanor (though he's been more fiery in the second half this year from the bench) but it's hard to ignore how much that flat emotionless approach has benefited Nate's game. He's acknowledged himself that he used to get too emotional.

Bednar has to be given credit for playing a big part in turning a good 1B/2A type center into arguably the best player in the league. There are definitely some positive contributions from other guys this year, but it's MacKinnon that is carrying this team on most nights.

MacKinnon, and by extent the formation of a legit top line with Mikko and Landy are by far the main reason they're in a playoff position right now. They haven't had a top line that could carry the team in a long long time. The offensive leaders not fulfilling their role has been one of the biggest problems with the Avs in recent years.

 

[forsbergavs32]

As far as I recall from last season, the only mistakes he really made were his handling of Soderberg and relying too much on guys like Iginla and Beauchemin (which there weren't exactly other choices last year). This time around he had a full off-season to prepare and got a completely different group on the ice, he also patched things with Soda and hes been a big part of the team. I'm not ready to call Bednar a top coach yet but I do think last year was an anomaly.

 

[22FUTON9]

He really didn't get a fair chance in his first year.

I'm loving what he's done this year with zad, mack, soda... generally just being really good with the players. I'll be pretty pissed if we dump him just because Q's out there in the market or something, although I really doubt Sakic would do that.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

As far as I recall from last season, the only mistakes he really made were his handling of Soderberg and relying too much on guys like Iginla and Beauchemin (which there weren't exactly other choices last year). This time around he had a full off-season to prepare and got a completely different group on the ice, he also patched things with Soda and hes been a big part of the team. I'm not ready to call Bednar a top coach yet but I do think last year was an anomaly.

Did he really mishandle Soda though? I don't know. Just curious. Maybe last year Soda was just not ready to accept the role he is playing this year and was just moping about it and not putting the effort into it. That's how it looked to me last year compare to this year. This year he seemed to embrace it and go with it.

 

[Pokecheque]

Wilson was playing well and deserved his middle 6/PP2 time but then got super sick (had to be tube fed) and wasn't the same after that and Bednad played him much less, then got hurt, then concussed. I disagree that he's got favorable treatment. He's been the most unlucky AVS player this year if anything.

Unlucky for sure, and never got a shot at really getting a rhythm going. Got hurt, then got sick, then got hurt again. I suppose I shouldn't have ripped on him like I did earlier this season (I ripped into Soda almost nonstop for a full calendar year, I should know better) but it was frustrating to see him seemingly take games off.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Did he really mishandle Soda though? I don't know. Just curious. Maybe last year Soda was just not ready to accept the role he is playing this year and was just moping about it and not putting the effort into it. That's how it looked to me last year compare to this year. This year he seemed to embrace it and go with it.

His role this year is exactly what Roy used him for in our first year. He had Comeau on his RW consistently. I don't remember who the rotating cast was at LW outside of Landeskog, but it was something better than Nieto.

Soda got a bit more PP time that year until we got Boedker though, and he was producing there. Roy pulled him off in favor of using plugs like Comeau even after Boedker arrived. Roy's handling of Soda in the later quarter was stupid, and Bednar just continued to alienate him at a far higher level.

I remember it perfectly because I never really hated Soda last year or at any other time since he signed his contract. Usually I'm the first to come down on a player for their effort level.

I was the one singing the tune that Soda's contract was a better value than Staz. People don't pay attention to the details sometimes, and context is thrown in the trash far too often. I don't blame Soderberg that much for last season based on the type of player he is and what's been long known from day one about his personality and the type player he is.

 

[James G]

Some day it's possible that some of the stuff that gets referenced will see the light of day, and it may cause some people to re-think certain things.

Look, no one is perfect, least of all me. What happened last season was, as I said, unacceptable (and I'm not just referring to the Avs' standings). It would appear that he learned from his mistake(s) and made an effort to do better, if so then genuine kudos to him. He absolutely deserves recognition for the job he's done this year, and as one of his most ardent detractors last year I will say that, I have no problem saying that. I do take issue w/ the treatment of certain players and the situations that I strongly feel that he could have absolutely avoided last year.

The kind of crappy thing is, we saw one year of absolute **** coaching and hockey and now one year of much better coaching and hockey. I thought I saw somewhere that he was on a 3 year deal...it makes evaluating sticking with him going forward very hard because how can we (or the Avs, more specifically) be sure of which year is closer to the norm? (OBVIOUSLY I'm not hoping that last year was his norm)...and what happens if a name like Barry Trotz becomes available?

Forget about the inherited Roy assistants last year , that you seem to think is an excuse. Last year Bednar was "burdened" by coaching Roys team - nearly half of which aren't even in the NHL this year. That makes me wonder if they deserved to be in the league LAST year. ??
On any given night Bednar is coaching the youngest team in the league, with one of the lowest salaries in the league - and you are wondering if Bednar's true skills were shown last year or this year? I find that almost laughable. God couldn't have coached last years roster to a better record IMO.

 

[RockLobster]

Cool.

 

[James G]

Some day it's possible that some of the stuff that gets referenced will see the light of day, and it may cause some people to re-think certain things.

Look, no one is perfect, least of all me. What happened last season was, as I said, unacceptable (and I'm not just referring to the Avs' standings). It would appear that he learned from his mistake(s) and made an effort to do better, if so then genuine kudos to him. He absolutely deserves recognition for the job he's done this year, and as one of his most ardent detractors last year I will say that, I have no problem saying that. I do take issue w/ the treatment of certain players and the situations that I strongly feel that he could have absolutely avoided last year.

The kind of crappy thing is, we saw one year of absolute **** coaching and hockey and now one year of much better coaching and hockey. I thought I saw somewhere that he was on a 3 year deal...it makes evaluating sticking with him going forward very hard because how can we (or the Avs, more specifically) be sure of which year is closer to the norm? (OBVIOUSLY I'm not hoping that last year was his norm)...and what happens if a name like Barry Trotz becomes available?

"What happens if a name like Barry Trotz comes available?"

We are talking about the same Barry Trotz who hasn't coached one of the greatest rosters in the league past the second round of playoffs, right? 20 years in the league, never past the second round.....doesn't seem like a real conundrum to me.

 

[CobraAcesS]

"What happens if a name like Barry Trotz comes available?"

We are talking about the same Barry Trotz who hasn't coached one of the greatest rosters in the league past the second round of playoffs, right? 20 years in the league, never past the second round.....doesn't seem like a real conundrum to me.

Q is the one I'd cry about missing out on.

 

[Ivan13]

"What happens if a name like Barry Trotz comes available?"

We are talking about the same Barry Trotz who hasn't coached one of the greatest rosters in the league past the second round of playoffs, right? 20 years in the league, never past the second round.....doesn't seem like a real conundrum to me.

Who has one of the greatest rosters? Caps?

 

[RockLobster]

"What happens if a name like Barry Trotz comes available?"

We are talking about the same Barry Trotz who hasn't coached one of the greatest rosters in the league past the second round of playoffs, right? 20 years in the league, never past the second round.....doesn't seem like a real conundrum to me.

 

[James G]

Who has one of the greatest rosters? Caps?

I would suggest that in 14/15 and 15/16 the Caps did, yes. I think most preseason power rankings would support that. I didn't mean currently.

 

[Ivan13]

I would suggest that in 14/15 and 15/16 the Caps did, yes. I think most preseason power rankings would support that. I didn't mean currently.

They have been a team with major flaws, and one whose best player is better suited for regular season, not to mention their goalie turned into a sieve every time playoffs rolled around.

So yeah, I've never seen them as a title contender under Trotz.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

They have been a team with major flaws, and one whose best player is better suited for regular season, not to mention their goalie turned into a sieve every time playoffs rolled around.

So yeah, I've never seen them as a title contender under Trotz.

Well that's just your opinion. But it's definitely not what the vast majority of "experts" thought. The Caps were easily the cup favorites the previous 2 years and both times came out with nothing to show for it.


Yeah some of that might have to do with the way the roster was built, but at some point the coaching has to come into question as well and you look at Trotz and his record in the post season and it starts to paint a pretty telling picture.


I wouldn't lose any sleep if Trotz was available this summer and the Avs didn't even pursue him. IMO he's a coach that's always been a little overrated and now he's starting to see the game pass by him without being able to adjust his methodology and systems accordingly.


I dont think Bednar is the best coach in the league by any stretch of the imagination, but I do think he's done a lot of really good things this year and is possibly the 2nd biggest reason why we are where we are in the standings this year behind the play of Mackinnon(Barrie would be close as well).

 

[22FUTON9]

The caps are basically my second team because I want ovi to win the cup but without a doubt the caps were considered the favorites to win the cup, especially in 15-16

 

[Foppberg]

The Caps have always been up there, but they just haven't been a team that I ever believed would get to the finals. Their best shot was the year Halak stonewalled them in the first round.

 

[Pokecheque]

They won the Presidents Trophy last year. They were title contenders.

And yes, the team that got owned by Halak that year was insanely stacked. It's a shame they let that get to them and more or less panicked, much like the Blues did in 2000 when they had the best regular season record and lost in the first round to an upstart Sharks team.

This is not directed at anyone here but I hate the Jack Adams being awarded to "The coach who did the most with the least amount of talent." That's kinda why winners of the trophy see themselves fired not long afterwards. A lot of times things just line up (goaltending, shooting percentages) to make a surprise run possible.

So, conversely, I don't think a coach should have the fact that he has a lot of talent to work with held against him. Peter Laviolette is still a great coach even though he has a fantastic array of talent at his disposal. So is Mike Babcock despite his rather maddening old-school tendencies. The only coach in the league who I think gets bailed out by the talent on his roster is Randy Carlyle. Ridiculously bad coach, I'm pretty sure most anyone could've taken that team to the Finals and won that year.