Jamie Oleksiak: Starting to deliver on his potential

Dipsy Doodle

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As for Daley's usage, it seems that the "common sense" solutions that the Pens had about reducing his minutes and playing him on his proper side aren't so common that they were obvious to his previous teams.
 
Jan 9, 2007
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As for Daley's usage, it seems that the "common sense" solutions that the Pens had about reducing his minutes and playing him on his proper side aren't so common that they were obvious to his previous teams.

Or they lacked the personnel to be able to do so.

This can go 'round and 'round as long as you want. This situation is basically the same as in MLB when a team has no real ace, or even a legit #2 starter. So a #3 level starter previously tasked with being an ace gets traded or signs with a team with better pitchers. After being properly slotted, the guy delivers and everyone is happy. Random "top 4 veteran D-man" traded at the deadline to contender where he plays on the bottom pairing. To the surprise of nobody, he plays well and his new team is more than satisfied.
 

Michael Farkas

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Jun 28, 2006
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I really don't want to participate any further, but I'll just say the words...

The whole "he's big and therefore it takes longer" is - like everything in hockey - not universal. The origination of that is players that hit growth spurts and it throws off their coordination (in terms of things like skating mechanics, but also strength distribution, etc.). Tyler Myers looked like Bambi on ice when he was in...uh...where ever he was in the Dub...Kelowna? That's what that's about, in short.

Jamie Oleksiak was 6'7" at the combine and had insane leg strength. He was 6'5", 210 lbs. at 16 or 17. He's gotta be 25 by now, so we're talking about a lot of time being a giant...he's used to it, he grew into his body a while ago. So that doesn't really apply here.

And, again, he's really not doing anything amazing...he's just doing what you'd expect from a third pairing guy. He supports the rush pretty well because he's a good skater, very mobile. And some people like to talk about forwards/centers insulating the D and all that...but the inverse exists...the amount of ground our centers cover eases off the pressure on the defense. The amount of multi-line puck carriers (87, 71, 81, 58) we have also minimizes the amount of touches that he has to make to exit the zone. Our NZ routes and weak side winger leak also pushes back forechecks and doesn't allow the defenders to sit in their normal spots.

That's why a player like Trevor Daley took off here...that's not a reclamation thing. That's a very good player that didn't fit into Chicago's system and did fit into Pittsburgh's. The reclamations (credit to Jacques Martin and Sergei Gonchar among others) are guys like: Engelland, Chorney, Niskanen, Schultz to an extent, Cole, Ruhwedel, etc.

Again, part of that is game play, but there's no question that Martin and Gonchar are doing God's work with some of these younger guys...but Daley doesn't apply there really to any great degree. But Daley was terrific for us and is sorely missed. We might have replaced his mobility with Hunwick, but Hunwick is no Daley...not by a long shot. If anything, Hunwick has vanillafied his game so much to try to stay in the game that he's rendered himself completely useless...so scared to make a mistake that he does nothing but screw up and gets scratched for it...that's a tough cycle to break out of...
 

wej20

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Aug 14, 2008
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If he were delivering on his potential would he not be able to push Shultz back to the third pairing? Lets not kid ourselves, the Pens D aren't world beaters, they aren't the reason they've been winning cups. Does the title not imply that he's been that good? I've seen him play, he's pretty meh. Just looks like another huge defender who's capable on the third pairing, and there's nothing wrong with that. I just don't get why people think he's living up to his potential. I think he'd get shelled playing a top 4 role.

We've been rolling with Oleksiak - Schultz and Maatta-Ruhwedel the last few games.
 

Dipsy Doodle

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Or they lacked the personnel to be able to do so.

This can go 'round and 'round as long as you want. This situation is basically the same as in MLB when a team has no real ace, or even a legit #2 starter. So a #3 level starter previously tasked with being an ace gets traded or signs with a team with better pitchers. After being properly slotted, the guy delivers and everyone is happy.

To continue the merry-go-round, despite my mentioning this several times in the thread, nobody has acknowledged Kessel and Schultz where the Pens did exactly the same thing. And regarding Daley and Schultz in particular, their improved defensive games were anything but expected regardless of where they were going to slot in the Pens line-up.

Random "top 4 veteran D-man" traded at the deadline to contender where he plays on the bottom pairing. To the surprise of nobody, he plays well and his new team is more than satisfied.

I imagine Hawks fans were surprised when their team followed that formula and it flopped, then.

Apparently it's not as automatic as it's made out to be.

I really don't want to participate any further, but I'll just say the words...

The whole "he's big and therefore it takes longer" is - like everything in hockey - not universal. The origination of that is players that hit growth spurts and it throws off their coordination (in terms of things like skating mechanics, but also strength distribution, etc.). Tyler Myers looked like Bambi on ice when he was in...uh...where ever he was in the Dub...Kelowna? That's what that's about, in short.

Jamie Oleksiak was 6'7" at the combine and had insane leg strength. He was 6'5", 210 lbs. at 16 or 17. He's gotta be 25 by now, so we're talking about a lot of time being a giant...he's used to it, he grew into his body a while ago. So that doesn't really apply here.

I don't think this distinguishes Oleksiak from any of the other big men I mentioned.

Of course it's not universal that big men take longer to develop, but it happens often enough to be considered a pattern. It's generally understood that these huge players are projects. It's certainly no less common than your "These types of players often do well in new surroundings at first and then as opponents adjust, they start to slide back to reality..." - if anything, in Pittsburgh the last few years many of these new acquisitions have sustained their success, which is sort of the point. Our pro scouting has done a pretty remarkable job of identifying cast-offs who can succeed in our system.

I don't see what leg strength has to do with anything either. It may differentiate Oleksiak from Myers, but not from a physical freak like Chara who still needed time to catch up to his body.

And, again, he's really not doing anything amazing...he's just doing what you'd expect from a third pairing guy. He supports the rush pretty well because he's a good skater, very mobile. And some people like to talk about forwards/centers insulating the D and all that...but the inverse exists...the amount of ground our centers cover eases off the pressure on the defense. The amount of multi-line puck carriers (87, 71, 81, 58) we have also minimizes the amount of touches that he has to make to exit the zone. Our NZ routes and weak side winger leak also pushes back forechecks and doesn't allow the defenders to sit in their normal spots.

As you mention though, Hunwick has looked terrible in spite of being a good skater.

And if Hunwick is so scared to make a mistake - despite being an established 32 year old on a multi-year multi-million dollar deal - that he vanillified his game to the point of uselessness, I don't see why it's considered a slam dunk that Oleksiak should come in and be as confident and effective as he's been. 6 points in his last 10 games, 1st star in the last game, and a formidable physical presence.
 
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Honour Over Glory

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Jan 30, 2012
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If he were delivering on his potential would he not be able to push Shultz back to the third pairing? Lets not kid ourselves, the Pens D aren't world beaters, they aren't the reason they've been winning cups. Does the title not imply that he's been that good? I've seen him play, he's pretty meh. Just looks like another huge defender who's capable on the third pairing, and there's nothing wrong with that. I just don't get why people think he's living up to his potential. I think he'd get shelled playing a top 4 role.
And yet here we are. Without a world beater defense that has beaten the hockey nhl world back to back.

Schultz is a damn solid top 4. Oleksiak is starting to scratch the surface of his potential and if anything a move back to LD might make things interesting next year for the Pens to move either Olli or Dumo for anything they might need on that ridiculous roster already.
 

MrHeiskanen

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10 minutes, minus three.. averaging 9 minutes in the playoffs.

What happened Pens fans? I thought he was becoming Chara lol
 

Jacob

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Feb 27, 2002
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10 minutes, minus three.. averaging 9 minutes in the playoffs.
12 minutes actually.

What happened Pens fans? I thought he was becoming Chara lol
I’m not sure, he’s looked fine to me. He’s been with Ruhwedel who needs protected, that’s the only explanation I can come up with. Did you want a serious answer though?
 

Pancakes

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10 minutes, minus three.. averaging 9 minutes in the playoffs.

What happened Pens fans? I thought he was becoming Chara lol

Didn't have the greatest series but wasn't awful either.

He's #6, nothing more, but he's fine in that role here.
 

CanadianPensFan1

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Jun 13, 2014
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I've been impressed with him so far.

Is he a world beater? Nope. Is he a pretty damn good 3rd pair guy? Yep. He could probably play the 2nd pair in a pinch for a short period of time.

For what the pens gave up for him, I've been happy.
 

3074326

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Apr 9, 2009
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10 minutes, minus three.. averaging 9 minutes in the playoffs.

What happened Pens fans? I thought he was becoming Chara lol

I don't think anyone said he would be Chara.

Still totally satisfied with the trade. Thanks for all the good players!
 

High Flying Birds

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Aug 29, 2009
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I sincerely hope no Pens fans compared him to Chara. Regardless, he's a solid 3rd pairing guy. Ruhwedel isn't exactly an ideal partner and Murray let in some awful goals today.
 

PensandCaps

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May 22, 2015
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I have liked him so far. Great trade. Dallas never fails to give us good players. Thanks.
 

Kcb12345

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Jun 6, 2017
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Dallas before the Oleksiak trade- 3rd seed...

Dallas after the Oleksiak trade - chokes the playoff spot away and their coach retires..

all that needs to be said..:teach2:

Dallas before the Oleksiak trade: Bad defensively

Dallas after the Oleksiak trade:
Top 5-10 defensive team for the rest of the year

Oleksiak would not have helped the scoring collapse
 

Honour Over Glory

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Jan 30, 2012
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10 minutes, minus three.. averaging 9 minutes in the playoffs.

What happened Pens fans? I thought he was becoming Chara lol

His play and his corsi whatevers all add up to what shows up on the ice as a damn solid defenseman that has to cover for albatross like mistakes by Ruhwedel which are also uncharacteristic of him. So you have Big Rig who is playing not so many minutes but when he does, he's absolutely fine and solid in his own end, when he isn't, it's because his defensive partner is out of position or over matched and he has to go help out.

Apparently, in your world, that is bad.

Which is fine. Just keep sending those types of defensemen our way, we seem to do very well with that.

PS: CBC made the Chara comparison, about how his big body and his stick get in the way of shots regularly, which helps him with his giant wing span and it doesn't hurt that a guy his size can also move very well. Is ever going to be like Chara? No, but he's a damn good player in his own right and he's still blossoming. Just take the loss, move on.
 

Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
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Dallas before the Oleksiak trade: Bad defensively

Dallas after the Oleksiak trade:
Top 5-10 defensive team for the rest of the year

Oleksiak would not have helped the scoring collapse

With Oleksiak (34 games of which Oleksiak played 21)
Goals Allowed: 2.79

After Oleksiak (48 games)
Goals Allowed: 2.56

Unless I missed how 2.56 GAA is now top 5-10, which is stupid btw, top 5 to 10? Pick one, top 5 or top 10, don't say both, that's me saying "I'm one of the top 1-5Billion richest men on the planet"...

Here's what we do know as well.

Hitchcock admitted fault in handling Oleksiak and his minutes and his position (side), he admits to failing him.

Dallas barely played the guy at times, 21 games out of the first 34 in varying minutes from 10-18?

He then goes to the Pens, is a +13 (was a -6 for dallas) and mind you, Pens were also struggling for large portions of Jamie's time with us.

So, he wasn't good on a not good team that isn't in the playoffs.
He's been better, on a playoff team and is becoming a vital part of our team's blueline depth.

I still don't get why you guys are so sour. We don't hate him or how he plays, he's actually been very good for us. Oh and the Pens are a better team with him in the line-up, the only crap part is that he needs a better partner. All of his hard work is negated by covering for Ruhwedel's mistakes in the post season so far.
 

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