Jakub Voracek #1 at ISS

vines4life

Registered User
Mar 5, 2007
6
0
True that Perron is a year older but, to his defense, he wasn't playing in the Q last year. With that said, Voracek is bigger and stronger and an overall better player than Perron. Those are the main differences.

Ok I see the game difference now. I remember hearing that Perron might be a 3rd rounder at best but now it all makes sense.
 

brightscout

Registered User
Jan 24, 2007
135
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ISS, could you explain why you consider age that much for the draft?

I mean, an 18 year old could have start his puberty at 15 years old and still have no beard on him while a 17 years old could have start his puberty at 12 and be way more mature physically (almost a man) then the 18 years old who start growing some hormones by 15. I've seen that so many times. Some guys in this draft have finished their growth but there will always be couple of player who will continue to grow quite a bit.

It's not like if everyone would start puberty at the same age. I've seen couple of 15 years old game this year and at every game you see the 6 feet guys with beard on him and the little 5'4'' player with no hormones in him. But the 5'4'' player often become 6 feet 2-3 years later. But, the guy who was 6 feet at 15 has 3 more years of growth in his body by 18 then the 5'4'' guy.

I don't know if you get my point.

Voracek's .27 points-per-game advantage over Perron is very significant, especially considering that he's nine months younger.
 
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LeafsrGods*

Guest
I am getting more and more worried if my Maple Leafs team play against Capitals who are loaded with top talents like Ovechkin, Cherepanov, Backstrom, Semin, etc, etc., wooptidooo, Ovechkin would lead the the nhl in scoring and goals.......

This reminds me of that christmas song: You better watch out, you better not cry, because i am telling you why, Ovechkin is coming to town and terrorize YOU!
 

cagney

cdojdmccjajgejncjaba
Jun 17, 2002
3,817
39
I believe it was ISS that was fairly high on NTDP U18 d-man Joey Lavin. What's the opinion on him now especially considering he was dropped from the U18 team for the U18 WJC's?
 

Yann

Registered User
Apr 4, 2007
631
2
Ontario
ISS, could you explain why you consider age that much for the draft?

I mean, an 18 year old could have start his puberty at 15 years old and still have no beard on him while a 17 years old could have start his puberty at 12 and be way more mature physically (almost a man) then the 18 years old who start growing some hormones by 15. I've seen that so many times. Some guys in this draft have finished their growth but there will always be couple of player who will continue to grow quite a bit.

It's not like if everyone would start puberty at the same age. I've seen couple of 15 years old game this year and at every game you see the 6 feet guys with beard on him and the little 5'4'' player with no hormones in him. But the 5'4'' player often become 6 feet 2-3 years later. But, the guy who was 6 feet at 15 has 3 more years of growth in his body by 18 then the 5'4'' guy.

I don't know if you get my point.

Well you have a good point, but seriously if a guy is 10 months younger but is the same draft, well hes basically a year younger and in other words he has had a year less of his life to practice hockey.

Also your point can be turned around, what if a guy is a year younger AND has hit puberty later than the other guy who is older, now HUGE difference...

To be honest if the age difference is close to a year it makes a big difference...
 

ISS Hockey

Top30 Draft Rankings
ISS, could you explain why you consider age that much for the draft?

I mean, an 18 year old could have start his puberty at 15 years old and still have no beard on him while a 17 years old could have start his puberty at 12 and be way more mature physically (almost a man) then the 18 years old who start growing some hormones by 15. I've seen that so many times. Some guys in this draft have finished their growth but there will always be couple of player who will continue to grow quite a bit.

It's not like if everyone would start puberty at the same age. I've seen couple of 15 years old game this year and at every game you see the 6 feet guys with beard on him and the little 5'4'' player with no hormones in him. But the 5'4'' player often become 6 feet 2-3 years later. But, the guy who was 6 feet at 15 has 3 more years of growth in his body by 18 then the 5'4'' guy.

I don't know if you get my point.

I get your point, and to a degree, that is considered. Some players mature faster than others, there's no doubt about it.

Age is just one of those things we consider. It might seem like we place more importance on it, but really, it's just one factor for us. It's not that it is more important than skating or puck skills. It's just that we think age tends to get overlooked by many in evaluating talent, so perhaps our emphasis on it makes it seem like we place more importance on it.

Generally, when comparing prospects, you want to consider not just their age, but also what level of hockey they are playing. Obviously, an 18-year-old such as Pat Kane is going to put up better scoring numbers in major junior than Bill Sweatt is as an 18-year-old freshman in the NCAA or that an 18-year-old Nicklas Backstrom (last year) would put up in the Swedeish Elitserien. Kane is at the mid-range or slightly higher of the age bracket in major junior. Sweatt is at the low range of the U.S. college age bracket. Ditto for Backstrom.

When comparing major junior players, consider their age and how many years experience they've had in the league.

Expect more from an 18-year-old in his third year of major junior than you would from a 17-year-old in his second year.

There's a development curve for players and although it varies from player to player, you generally try not to compare a player when he is further along the development curve (i.e. 18 years old) to a player who is not as far along (17 years old). When you draft the average 17 year-old, he is going to develop more after being drafted than the average 18-year-old. When drafting an 18-year-old, you get the benefit of seeing that first year of development that you don't normally get to see when you draft a 17-year-old. It's really a better age to draft a kid because hockey players develop quite a bit from 17 to 18.

You just have to keep this in mind when comparing players, especially when they're in their third year of major junior, for example. A kid like Drew Doughty, for example, who we are very high on, should really be assessed this year and compared next year to kids like Pietrangelo and Del Zotto. He still comes out ahead, but if Doughty goes ballistic next season with Guelph, it wouldn't be wise to compare his performance as a third-year OHLer at 18 to two sophomores who are 17.

That's how we look at things, anyway.
 
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ISS Hockey

Top30 Draft Rankings
ok so now tell me...which player in the top 4 is the best fit for the Flyers?

Well, when we do our mock draft in our NHL draft preview, we'll answer that.

Turris would give them a nice 1-2 punch with Carter down the middle. Voracek, Kane or Cherepanov would give them a right wing. Right now, the Flyer's depth chart at that position is topped by 35-year-old Mike Knuble. Whether you draft by BPA or need, the Flyers get their man, I think as Turris could easily move to right wing. Whether you want to move him is another matter. I don't think the Flyers could go wrong with any of these guys (unless they get can't Cherepanov across the pond, that is).

I guess if the Flyers ended up not winning the draft lottery today, it wouldn't be as big a loss as in other years. The separation isn't that great.
 

brightscout

Registered User
Jan 24, 2007
135
0
Well-written ISS,

Thanks for info.

I get your point, and to a degree, that is considered. Some players mature faster than others, there's no doubt about it.

Age is just one of those things we consider. It might seem like we place more importance on it, but really, it's just one factor for us. It's not that it is more important than skating or puck skills. It's just that we think age tends to get overlooked by many in evaluating talent, so perhaps our emphasis on it makes it seem like we place more importance on it.

Generally, when comparing prospects, you want to consider not just their age, but also what level of hockey they are playing. Obviously, an 18-year-old such as Pat Kane is going to put up better scoring numbers in major junior than Bill Sweatt is as an 18-year-old freshman in the NCAA or that an 18-year-old Nicklas Backstrom (last year) would put up in the Swedeish Elitserien. Kane is at the mid-range or slightly higher of the age bracket in major junior. Sweatt is at the low range of the U.S. college age bracket. Ditto for Backstrom.

When comparing major junior players, consider their age and how many years experience they've had in the league.

Expect more from an 18-year-old in his third year of major junior than you would from a 17-year-old in his second year.

There's a development curve for players and although it varies from player to player, you generally try not to compare a player when he is further along the development curve (i.e. 18 years old) to a player who is not as far along (17 years old). When you draft the average 17 year-old, he is going to develop more after being drafted than the average 18-year-old. When drafting an 18-year-old, you get the benefit of seeing that first year of development that you don't normally get to see when you draft a 17-year-old. It's really a better age to draft a kid because hockey players develop quite a bit from 17 to 18.

You just have to keep this in mind when comparing players, especially when they're in their third year of major junior, for example. A kid like Drew Doughty, for example, who we are very high on, should really be assessed this year and compared next year to kids like Pietrangelo and Del Zotto. He still comes ahead, but if Doughty goes ballistic next season with Guelph, it wouldn't be wise to compare his performance as a third-year OHLer at 18 to two sophomores who are 17.

That's how we look at things, anyway.
 

John Flyers Fan

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
22,416
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Visit site
Well, when we do our mock draft in our NHL draft preview, we'll answer that.

Turris would give them a nice 1-2 punch with Carter down the middle. Voracek, Kane or Cherepanov would give them a right wing. Right now, the Flyer's depth chart at that position is topped by 35-year-old Mike Knuble. Whether you draft by BPA or need, the Flyers get their man, I think as Turris could easily move to right wing. Whether you want to move him is another matter. I don't think the Flyers could go wrong with any of these guys (unless they get can't Cherepanov across the pond, that is).

I guess if the Flyers ended up not winning the draft lottery today, it wouldn't be as big a loss as in other years. The separation isn't that great.

Knuble and now Upshall play RW. Depth wise, we also have Giroux and Downie to play RW in the future. The position we lack most would be LW or G. Picking first overally will not be done for need however, strictly BPA.
 

Dicky Dangles

dangles the puck.
Oct 3, 2006
1,595
514
Manhattan Beach
Knuble and now Upshall play RW. Depth wise, we also have Giroux and Downie to play RW in the future. The position we lack most would be LW or G. Picking first overally will not be done for need however, strictly BPA.

Nodl's a RW too. I was thinking about this earlier. We actually have RW depth, and was wondering which players would move to the LW. We're most likely going to draft another RW in Voracek or Kane, so someone's going to have to move, or be moved.
 

PuckheadMcGillycuddy

Registered User
Aug 12, 2002
671
0
Another 1 and 2 tonight for Voracek, albeit is a losing cause yet again -- Halifax is down 3-0 to Lewiston. But Voracek has 7 goals and 16 assists in 10 postseason games to lead the Q.
 

ELab2

Registered User
Apr 9, 2007
5,387
13
Atlantic City
As far as the Flyers go if they went after Kane or Voracek they would play on Carter's wing as the playmaker he needs. OR

They draft Turris and they have a one-two punch down the middle. And have traditional scoring wingers for Turris and Giroux, Downie, or Nodl would be Carter's playmaking winger.
 

OilerOlli*

Guest
Bäcklund not in the Top30, Aliu at 19th after his suspension...I better say nothing about it.
Only that it won't happen in the real draft.

I see you heard me. *g*
Aliu now out of the top 30 (from #19).
And Bäckund at #10 (from not being in the top 30)
 

Fan.At

Registered User
Sponsor
Mar 2, 2002
2,847
86
HFNHL Preds
Nodl's a RW too. I was thinking about this earlier. We actually have RW depth, and was wondering which players would move to the LW. We're most likely going to draft another RW in Voracek or Kane, so someone's going to have to move, or be moved.

As far as i know, Nödl has played LW in St Cloud this season.
 

Bill_Meltzer

Registered User
Jan 28, 2005
517
43
Oh, thats new to me. Really Backlund?
Is the first swedish name I hear that includes back, instead bäck...

In addition to Backlund, I've seen Backman, Backström and Back (as in former Södertälje and AIK defenseman Anders Back).
 

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