Player Discussion Jake Virtanen | Jake It Or Break It Edition

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mossey3535

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The last 20 games of the season Jake looked like the same Jake in that Junior video, other than he was snakebitten around the net. I don't assume a player has no hockey IQ (when he struggles early in his career) given my experience in the NCAA and europe, and knowing what it takes to score at that level (and junior).

He knows how to score. He has a high hockey IQ, he was immature and not ready to handle what it took mentally day to day to be a pro, and had to learn to be defensively responsible. I have seen many young players experience what he did, confusion because he's told too many things, and is overloaded.

Result, you start 'thinking the game' rather than playing your game, and letting it come to you. Green had to force feed this into him because he was immature professionally. Not all kids are as mature as Bo.

That being said, if you saw the last 20 games, the fact Green gave him PK, PP, OT time that should tell you what he thought of Jakes progression, and what did we then see with a little confidence? Flashes of why he was drafted, a kid driving the net, creating turovers, creating odd man chances, breakaways, the way he did in junior.

Alot of people on this site are going to pretend they never bashed this kid in 2 years. I am sure we're going to see alot of 'revisionist' history from some of team troll jake at that time.

I appreciate your skepticism, your view is honest and well articulated, and a fair concern and thankfully not part of the troll Jake brigade.

That being said, I have said this prior as well, next season is a big one for him. He needs to take the next step professionally, and that is earning the trust of Green as a key player. Once he gets that, he gets consistent ice. Once he gets consistent ice, he gets more confidence, once he gets more confidence, you will see more of the Hockey IQ come out. That's how it works, and that's coming from someoe who's played the game.

For sure, and I am on his side.

Honestly, he needs a steady line, with the same center all the time. The coaches should have a couple of set plays for him and/or he should work it out with his linemates. Driving the net is a start - they should have the other winger trail him as soon as he sees Jake go to the net to collect the loose change. They should tell Jake to pull the goalie wide all the time, and hold it unless he actually sees the 5-hole open.

Drive. If no 5-hole, then hold. If winger trailing, then pass to slot. If no winger, start cycle. At this stage of his development he is the type of player that needs an "A or B" gameplan at all times. Despite all this hype about Green helping him, I think both coaching staffs haven't done their job in developing him.

I get the feeling that they tell him in general terms what to do. Green has reportedly spent a lot of time reviewing tape with him. But it has to be boiled down into some simple decision trees first. In my mind there is no way what I described in the previous paragraph has been given to this player. Like he is not a freaking dummy. But this is the state of coaching in the NHL in general.

Also, I doubt Green is coaching any offence whatsoever. Why? Because almost no NHL coaches or hockey coaches in general coach offence. But that is Jakey's greatest strength! So essentially they have left him directionless on both ends and he hasn't been able to do what has made him successful in his hockey career so far.
 

NucksRock

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If you watch the 2014 draft again. They ranked the players out of 5 on their skating, shot and hockey IQ and a few more skillset as well. His hockey IQ was ranked 3 out of 5. It's one of the lowest out of all the 1st round picks He was also was of top goal scorer in the draft as well. So Yes without a high hockey IQ you can still score a lot of goals in Junior. You can get by in Junior if you have some skill and are faster and bigger than most of the player. Nhl is completely different animal.

Anytime Virtanen is facing higher level competition regardless if it is in the wjc/AHL/Nhl. He has failed to produce. Why did he failed to produce? A higher level of hockey you can't just get by with speed an size. You need to think the game at a higher level. That's why Virtanen in every level of hockey that higher than the chl failed to produce.

The Canucks did send Virtanen down to the AHL last season to work on his all around game. Reason for that is because he doesn't process the game well enough.

All the Virtanen fans only see his sexy skating. But for some reason a lot of you are not seeing all the mistakes he makes on the ice. Why does he makes so many mistakes because he doesn't process the game well enough.

A few example. Dallas game horrible pass that led to a shorthanded goal. Col game gives the puck a way at center ice and col scores the game winning goal.

Simple question. Do you see a lot of mistake Virtanen makes? Example like give aways, don't know where to go on the ice. Yes or No? You can't just see what you want to see.

All the mistakes he makes on the ice? Is that why Green played him more and more and gave him more responsibility as the season progressed? I will go with Green's deployment vs your armchair assesment thanks. Also, parsing out an error here or there is a ridiculous comment, all players make errors guy. Crosby made the error that led to the loss vs Washington-so what's your point, he sucks because he made some errors? The fact you use 2 data points is absurd, players make dozens of errors weekly. Some cost them, some don't and young players make more, and this leads to my next point.

Did you ever stop to think, maybe the coaches could care less about his offense right now? that they, much like they do with most young guys who aren't ready for the defensive responsibilities of the pro game, want these young players to focus on their own end?

Did you not notice the same treatment with Bo? with Baer? even with Boeser? How long till Boeser got pp time? How long till Bo got pp time? 1.5 seasons? why? Because the coaches know these kids can score, but they are trying to drill into them, the defensive side of the game. Until they prove they 'get it', they don't give them much offensive leeway.

Once they've proven 'they're getting it', they loosen the reigns a bit, give more ice, let them start getting more offenive ice, pp time etc. This is call DEVELOPMENT 101.

If you also didn't notice, Jake knew his way to stay in the NHL was to do as the coaches said. If you actually watched him, for all of last year, and most of this, he didn't take any offesive chances, he played overly cautious for A REASON. He's trying to do what the coaches told him to a "T". And guess what? When he finally did, what did Green do? Gave him more ice? see how that feedback loop works for development? Its part of earning ice and rewarding.

You people say the kid has no hockey IQ because he's not scoring, but ignore how he was being used, what was expected of him by the coaching staff (defense first) and then say his last 20 games where he showed the coaches he was getting it, and thus was rewarded with ice, and then started showing flashes of his skill, somehow don't indicate he has skill and hockey IQ. All it tells me is there is a large contingent of Jake haters that don't understand how the developement of a young player works, even though its going on right in front of them.

It amazes me that something so simple is missed by you. Or maybe some of you just want him to fail because in some sick way that makes you feel good.
 
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PuckMunchkin

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perhaps you're having a tough time understanding since I never said half of the things you are making up.

Jake has never scored 40 goals in he NHL so I am not sure how you would assume I am suggesting or even implying he scored 40 goals in the NHL since we all know he has not.

SMH

Are you trying to muddy the waters on purpose or are do you really not remember what you write?

edit. Let me help you understand your own posts:

Do you have to be a 40 goal man to have a high hockey IQ? what if you only get 30? no iq? is that the binary inflection point for team troll Jake?

40 = High hockey IQ
<40 No hockey IQ -

Ok cool beans.

These are NHL goals you are talking about? Yes / No

All the mistakes he makes on the ice? Is that why Green played him more and more and gave him more responsibility as the season progressed? Ok i will go with green's deployment vs your armchair assesment thanks

Maybe he was just giving him ice time to help him develop? I mean its not like the games mattered at that point.
 

NucksRock

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Are you trying to muddy the waters on purpose or are do you really not remember what you write?

edit. Let me help you understand your own posts:



These are NHL goals you are talking about? Yes / No



Maybe he was just giving him ice time to help him develop? I mean its not like the games mattered at that point.
You don't get it son.....time to move on. If explaining the same issue 20 times isn't enough 21 times won't be enough nor will 45000 times, because its not about the issue, its about getting someone to repeat themselves right?

SMH. sad
 

PuckMunchkin

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You don't get it son.....time to move on. If explaining the same issue 20 times isn't enough 21 times won't be enough nor will 45000 times, because its not about the issue, its about getting someone to repeat themselves right?

SMH. sad

At least I tried to understand what you are trying to say.

You never answer the point, and instead attack the poster. Why is this so prevalent on the boards now?
 

NucksRock

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At least I tried to understand what you are trying to say.

You never answer the point, and instead attack the poster. Why is this so prevalent on the boards now?

Actually I didn't attack, I explained that re-explaining the point to you when its been addressed numerous times is not efficient use of time. Sorry you feel attacked, perhaps you can just go scroll back and re-read the posts, its all there. Its much easier for everyone! The great thing about this site is you can keep referring back until you undertand the points (again its all well explained in great detail). all the best champ!
 

PuckMunchkin

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Actually I didn't attack, I explained that re-explaining the point to you when its been addressed numerous times is not efficient use of time. Sorry you feel attacked, perhaps you can just go scroll back and re-read the posts, its all there. Its much easier for everyone! The great thing about this site is you can keep referring back until you undertand the points (again its all well explained in great detail). all the best champ!

You even sent me a PM where you called me names.

My point all this time has been:
Scoring 40 goals in the WHL does not necessarily translate to hockey IQ in the NHL.

I still don't know what your point is. At this point I am not convinced you do either.
 
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Canucks1096

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All the mistakes he makes on the ice? Is that why Green played him more and more and gave him more responsibility as the season progressed? I will go with Green's deployment vs your armchair assesment thanks. Also, parsing out an error here or there is a ridiculous comment, all players make errors guy. Crosby made the error that led to the loss vs Washington-so what's your point, he sucks because he made some errors? The fact you use 2 data points is absurd, players make dozens of errors weekly. Some cost them, some don't and young players make more, and this leads to my next point.

Did you ever stop to think, maybe the coaches could care less about his offense right now? that they, much like they do with most young guys who aren't ready for the defensive responsibilities of the pro game, want these young players to focus on their own end?

Did you not notice the same treatment with Bo? with Baer? even with Boeser? How long till Boeser got pp time? How long till Bo got pp time? 1.5 seasons? why? Because the coaches know these kids can score, but they are trying to drill into them, the defensive side of the game. Until they prove they 'get it', they don't give them much offensive leeway.

Once they've proven 'they're getting it', they loosen the reigns a bit, give more ice, let them start getting more offenive ice, pp time etc. This is call DEVELOPMENT 101.

If you also didn't notice, Jake knew his way to stay in the NHL was to do as the coaches said. If you actually watched him, for all of last year, and most of this, he didn't take any offesive chances, he played overly cautious for A REASON. He's trying to do what the coaches told him to a "T". And guess what? When he finally did, what did Green do? Gave him more ice? see how that feedback loop works for development? Its part of earning ice and rewarding.

You people say the kid has no hockey IQ because he's not scoring, but ignore how he was being used, what was expected of him by the coaching staff (defense first) and then say his last 20 games where he showed the coaches he was getting it, and thus was rewarded with ice, and then started showing flashes of his skill, somehow don't indicate he has skill and hockey IQ. All it tells me is there is a large contingent of Jake haters that don't understand how the developement of a young player works, even though its going on right in front of them.

It amazes me that something so simple is missed by you. Or maybe some of you just want him to fail because in some sick way that makes you feel good.

Virtanen started to get more ice time once the Canucks were pretty much out of the playoffs and when the Canucks started to have stacked of injuries. Don't think that is a coincidence.

Yes every Players makes mistakes but Virtanen makes lots of mistakes. Thats the difference. Not sure why you are bringing Crosby into this. If I ask you right now. Who makes a lot more mistakes on the ice Crosby or Virtanen. Your answer is going to be Virtanen.

So if Green doesn't care about Virtnanen offense? Why is he trying to make end to end rushes all the time and bring pucks to the net? Why is stickhandling through center ice when there is only one Canucks behind him. Why does he make all those high risk passes to create offence? Why did Virtanen played so much with the Sedins at earlier in the season? Why was he given so many offensive zone starts earlier in the season. So is Green telling Virtanen well I am going to put you with the Sedins tonight and you will get a lot of offensive zone starts but don't worry about offense. Just play defence with the Sedins?

Your excuses that you are making are getting more and more ridiculous.

I am not sure how often you follow the Canucks. Horvat got pp time in his second full season. Boeser got pp time right Away. Baertschi got pp time in his 1st full season as well. So not sure where you are getting 1.5 season from.

Last 20 games I saw a lot of end to end rushes. Either he take a long shot or try to carry the puck to the net. I saw a lot of giveaways. I saw those end to rushes over and over that didn't lead to anything. Those rushes have nothing to do with hockey IQ. You might want to Google hockey IQ. I don't think understand that term. Why don't you ask yourself this question. With those extra ice time the last quarter of the season how come he was only able to produce 5 points in 20 games?

During his draft year he had horrible hockey IQ already according to a lot of scouts. Like I said he had one of worst hockey IQ out of all the 1st round picks according to the scouts.

I think I should stop replying to your post. I honestly don't even think you follow the Canucks that often.
 
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604

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this is where your wrong, but lets just end it right here, picks 6 7 8 9 was all up in the air. Mckenzie had Virtanen at 7.

This is true.

Although I can't recall any of the services having Jake #6, while Ehlers, Nylander, and Ritchie had been ranked inside the top 6 by several publications.
 

vancityluongo

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1) FFS
2) Would Reaves be a JV mentor, or is he a replacement? Most will say Reaves is an upgrade on Archibald, but with stuff like the 3 hits per game comments from Green, and the team removing Jake from all promotional material, there's some smoke around a move. Hmm...
 

DL44

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Virtanen started to get more ice time once the Canucks were pretty much out of the playoffs and when the Canucks started to have stacked of injuries. Don't think that is a coincidence.

Yes every Players makes mistakes but Virtanen makes lots of mistakes. Thats the difference. Not sure why you are bringing Crosby into this. If I ask you right now. Who makes a lot more mistakes on the ice Crosby or Virtanen. Your answer is going to be Virtanen.

So if Green doesn't care about Virtnanen offense? Why is he trying to make end to end rushes all the time and bring pucks to the net? Why is stickhandling through center ice when there is only one Canucks behind him. Why does he make all those high risk passes to create offence? Why did Virtanen played so much with the Sedins at earlier in the season? Why was he given so many offensive zone starts earlier in the season. So is Green telling Virtanen well I am going to put you with the Sedins tonight and you will get a lot of offensive zone starts but don't worry about offense. Just play defence with the Sedins?

Your excuses that you are making are getting more and more ridiculous.

I am not sure how often you follow the Canucks. Horvat got pp time in his second full season. Boeser got pp time right Away. Baertschi got pp time in his 1st full season as well. So not sure where you are getting 1.5 season from.

Last 20 games I saw a lot of end to end rushes. Either he take a long shot or try to carry the puck to the net. I saw a lot of giveaways. I saw those end to rushes over and over that didn't lead to anything. Those rushes have nothing to do with hockey IQ. You might want to Google hockey IQ. I don't think understand that term. Why don't you ask yourself this question. With those extra ice time the last quarter of the season how come he was only able to produce 5 points in 20 games?

During his draft year he had horrible hockey IQ already according to a lot of scouts. Like I said he had one of worst hockey IQ out of all the 1st round picks according to the scouts.

I think I should stop replying to your post. I honestly don't even think you follow the Canucks that often.
What were your observations of his takeaways?

The ones on the backcheck... or on the forecheck... or hits causing a change of possession?

Most of the time those far out numbered any giveaways he had.
In terms of other mistakes.. he had a number of em... one that had me screaming at the screen was him failing to drive the net when Horvat drove down the wing... he stayed up high hoping for a difficult drop to slot pass instead... Horvat's only play was cross crease... where he sent it.. harmlessly.. since no one was there. That positional stuff is what gets people up in arms along with any shot he takes that's low percentage.
Ironically low angle/percentage shots have been all the rage this playoff.. heh.
(Virtanen playoff performer confirmed!!)

He wasn't referred to as our best forward multiple times down the stretch because he was pretty.. his overall play, where his positive plays far outweighed his mistakes, warranted it.

The exciting part is when he gets some consistency.. and put those games back to back to back...
It's coming.
He keeps generating those prime grade A opportunities and he will be rewarded..
 
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NucksRock

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Virtanen started to get more ice time once the Canucks were pretty much out of the playoffs and when the Canucks started to have stacked of injuries. Don't think that is a coincidence.

Yes every Players makes mistakes but Virtanen makes lots of mistakes. Thats the difference. Not sure why you are bringing Crosby into this. If I ask you right now. Who makes a lot more mistakes on the ice Crosby or Virtanen. Your answer is going to be Virtanen.

So if Green doesn't care about Virtnanen offense? Why is he trying to make end to end rushes all the time and bring pucks to the net? Why is stickhandling through center ice when there is only one Canucks behind him. Why does he make all those high risk passes to create offence? Why did Virtanen played so much with the Sedins at earlier in the season? Why was he given so many offensive zone starts earlier in the season. So is Green telling Virtanen well I am going to put you with the Sedins tonight and you will get a lot of offensive zone starts but don't worry about offense. Just play defence with the Sedins?

Your excuses that you are making are getting more and more ridiculous.

I am not sure how often you follow the Canucks. Horvat got pp time in his second full season. Boeser got pp time right Away. Baertschi got pp time in his 1st full season as well. So not sure where you are getting 1.5 season from.

Last 20 games I saw a lot of end to end rushes. Either he take a long shot or try to carry the puck to the net. I saw a lot of giveaways. I saw those end to rushes over and over that didn't lead to anything. Those rushes have nothing to do with hockey IQ. You might want to Google hockey IQ. I don't think understand that term. Why don't you ask yourself this question. With those extra ice time the last quarter of the season how come he was only able to produce 5 points in 20 games?

During his draft year he had horrible hockey IQ already according to a lot of scouts. Like I said he had one of worst hockey IQ out of all the 1st round picks according to the scouts.

I think I should stop replying to your post. I honestly don't even think you follow the Canucks that often.

Highlighted areas

1. All young players make errors - ice time increasing tells you Green and the coaching staff see fewer errors -FACT

2. You are clearly STILL misunderstanding the essay I had to write to explain it to you.

a. Young player comes into the league raw, usually if a high draft pick, has offensive skill but needs work on their defensive side

b. Coach starts him on the low lines to learn to play 200ft, and to earn his way up

c. My comment was clear. For his first season and a half there was no expectation nor desire for him to focus on offense, thus his deployment, they wanted him to address "b" above.

d. Therefore, once he proved he could manage "b"above -the coaches game him more ice, more offensive situational opportuities (pp2 ad OT) etc.

3. His takeaway giveaway ratio last season was 1.6 - this means he took away 1.6 more pucks for every puck he gave away (this is not the sign of a bad defensive player, nor is it the sign of a player always giving up the puck guy) - so perhaps you need your eyes checked, or were watching a different player or team. As statistical facts prove your assertion is patently incorrect. This was 10th on the team, Better than TANEV, Bo, Sven, Boeser, and 4th for players over 50 games. Hmm...seems to suggest he knows how to play defense and isn't giving up the puck as you claim does it? At worst, he's taking the puck away alot more than he 'giving it away' LOL!!!

It seems I actually do watch the canucks and my 'excuses' are not ridiculous - funny thing about facts, they make someone who doesn't have any in their favour, lose a debate.

As evidence to 2c above, the kid had the 5th lowest TOI on the team, tied with Burmistrov and only ahead of Boucher, Chaput and Megna and Dowd, and as we all know that ice time went up the last 20 games, so he was even lower through most of the season. I am not sure how people expect him to show and prove he can score with that little ice.

It is clear when you look at the data, the coaches were trying to get him to focus on playing a certain way. Once his defensive positioning and consistency of effort was addressed they gave him more ice, as they did we saw more and more offense generated from him, regardless of actual pints, we saw chances being created.
 
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Canucks1096

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Highlighted areas

1. All young players make errors - ice time increasing tells you Green and the coaching staff see fewer errors -FACT

2. You are clearly STILL misunderstanding the essay I had to write to explain it to you.

a. Young player comes into the league raw, usually if a high draft pick, has offensive skill but needs work on their defensive side

b. Coach starts him on the low lines to learn to play 200ft, and to earn his way up

c. My comment was clear. For his first season and a half there was no expectation nor desire for him to focus on offense, thus his deployment, they wanted him to address "b" above.

d. Therefore, once he proved he could manage "b"above -the coaches game him more ice, more offensive situational opportuities (pp2 ad OT) etc.

3. His takeaway giveaway ratio last season was 1.6 - this means he took away 1.6 more pucks for every puck he gave away (this is not the sign of a bad defensive player, nor is it the sign of a player always giving up the puck guy) - so perhaps you need your eyes checked, or were watching a different player or team. As statistical facts prove your assertion is patently incorrect. This was 10th on the team, Better than TANEV, Bo, Sven, Boeser, and 4th for players over 50 games. Hmm...seems to suggest he knows how to play defense and isn't giving up the puck as you claim does it? At worst, he's taking the puck away alot more than he 'giving it away' LOL!!!

It seems I actually do watch the canucks and my 'excuses' are not ridiculous - funny thing about facts, they make someone who doesn't have any in their favour, lose a debate.

As evidence to 2c above, the kid had the 5th lowest TOI on the team, tied with Burmistrov and only ahead of Boucher, Chaput and Megna and Dowd, and as we all know that ice time went up the last 20 games, so he was even lower through most of the season. I am not sure how people expect him to show and prove he can score with that little ice.

It is clear when you look at the data, the coaches were trying to get him to focus on playing a certain way. Once his defensive positioning and consistency of effort was addressed they gave him more ice, as they did we saw more and more offense generated from him, regardless of actual pints, we saw chances being created.

1 Virtanen has the 2nd most give aways on the team. I think it's fair for me to say he makes a lot of mistakes on the ice. This is Virtanen d+4 I think we need to stop playing the young player card on him. You are still ignoring what I said he started to get more ice time when Canucks were out of the playoff spot and when there were Lot of injuries. Not a coincidence when Boeser a player that plays the same position as Virtanen was out all of sudden he started to get more ice time. So did Virtanen actually improve on making less mistakes or Virtanen got more ice because Boeser was out?

2 your essay doesn't make any sense. Lot of it is just your personal opinion without any clear evidences to support it.

B/C. So once again why did Virtanen play so much with the Sedins and got so much offensive starts beginning of the year if he was only concentrating on working on the defensive side. Fyi you even said yourself Virtanen is working on his 200 foot game. 200 foot game means he working on both ends of the ice. Offense and defense. You indirectly admit that Virtanen is working on offence as well.

D, 3 you are all over the map right now. Pick one lane and stick with it, you are changing lanes right now. One argument you are talking about his whole season advance stats and claiming he is not a bad defensive player. Another argument you are saying once Virtanen defensive game improve he got more ice time. So one argument you are saying Virtanen wasn't bad defensively the whole year l. Another argument you said he was bad defensively the whole year. So ask yourself this question so if you think Green is only working on the defensive side with Jake. Isn't that sign that is not good defensively?

You are kind of changing what I said. I said Virtanen is making a lot of mistakes. He has the second highest giveaways for forwards. By that stat alone I have right to say he is making a lot of mistakes. Yes he taking the puck away a lot. But that still doesn't change he giving the puck away a lot. Why is he giving away the puck a lot because he doesnt the process the game we 'll enough.

But the fact is once Virtanen got the ice time. He still couldn't produce much with only 5 points in 20 games. If he can't finish So many of his chances. Isn't that a sign He just not a top 6 forward?
 

Fire Benning

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He has the physical tools to stay in the NHL, but his IQ is what will prevent him from becoming an impact player.
 

DL44

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Highlighted areas

1. All young players make errors - ice time increasing tells you Green and the coaching staff see fewer errors -FACT
More accurately as his "good plays:bad plays" ratio was improved...

2. You are clearly STILL misunderstanding the essay I had to write to explain it to you.

a. Young player comes into the league raw, usually if a high draft pick, has offensive skill but needs work on their defensive side

b. Coach starts him on the low lines to learn to play 200ft, and to earn his way up

c. My comment was clear. For his first season and a half there was no expectation nor desire for him to focus on offense, thus his deployment, they wanted him to address "b" above.

d. Therefore, once he proved he could manage "b"above -the coaches game him more ice, more offensive situational opportuities (pp2 ad OT) etc.
Fair.

3. His takeaway giveaway ratio last season was 1.6 - this means he took away 1.6 more pucks for every puck he gave away (this is not the sign of a bad defensive player, nor is it the sign of a player always giving up the puck guy) - so perhaps you need your eyes checked, or were watching a different player or team. As statistical facts prove your assertion is patently incorrect. This was 10th on the team, Better than TANEV, Bo, Sven, Boeser, and 4th for players over 50 games. Hmm...seems to suggest he knows how to play defense and isn't giving up the puck as you claim does it? At worst, he's taking the puck away alot more than he 'giving it away' LOL!!!
He's shown himself well defensively since he's been here.
His speed getting on the backcheck and breaking up plays has been a weapon. Just don't see it enough due to ice time... and due to him usually playing his shifts in one zone or the other... teams don't transition as well offensively against his lines. If their one thing he can do is push the play up the ice. What he does in the zone has a tonne of room for improvement.

It seems I actually do watch the canucks and my 'excuses' are not ridiculous - funny thing about facts, they make someone who doesn't have any in their favour, lose a debate.

As evidence to 2c above, the kid had the 5th lowest TOI on the team, tied with Burmistrov and only ahead of Boucher, Chaput and Megna and Dowd, and as we all know that ice time went up the last 20 games, so he was even lower through most of the season. I am not sure how people expect him to show and prove he can score with that little ice.
Not just scoring... all aspects of his game. Many are still oblivious he has a defensive game.

It is clear when you look at the data, the coaches were trying to get him to focus on playing a certain way. Once his defensive positioning and consistency of effort was addressed they gave him more ice, as they did we saw more and more offense generated from him, regardless of actual pints, we saw chances being created.
They wanted him to be an eventful, high work effort player... make SOMETHING, ANYTHING happen with your legs every shift.
Work rate wasn't there consistently cuz conditioning wasn't there. But every once in while he had his legs going and he would tease us like with an 8 shot performance vs Det.

It's coming.
 

PuckMunchkin

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It seems I actually do watch the canucks and my 'excuses' are not ridiculous - funny thing about facts, they make someone who doesn't have any in their favour, lose a debate.

You are not winning the debate here.

You keep rambling on, contradicting your self, using your self as a source, complementing your own statements with lines like "Fact!"
 

vancityluongo

curse of the strombino
Sponsor
Jul 8, 2006
18,612
6,270
Edmonton
Can we add a poll? How many goals does Jake Virtanen score next year? Everyone operates under the assumption that he is a Canuck, plays somewhere between 2nd and 3rd line minutes with limited, but non-zero PP time. Make the poll public so all the people supposedly predicting doom can eat mad crow if he breaks out and scores 40.

As of right now, I'd peg him at about 12-14 goals and 30 points over a full season.
 

DL44

Status quo
Sep 26, 2006
17,897
3,811
Location: Location:
Can we add a poll? How many goals does Jake Virtanen score next year? Everyone operates under the assumption that he is a Canuck, plays somewhere between 2nd and 3rd line minutes with limited, but non-zero PP time. Make the poll public so all the people supposedly predicting doom can eat mad crow if he breaks out and scores 40.

As of right now, I'd peg him at about 12-14 goals and 30 points over a full season.
18-25

To be conservative.
 

NucksRock

Registered User
May 16, 2018
450
255
More accurately as his "good plays:bad plays" ratio was improved...

Fair.


He's shown himself well defensively since he's been here.
His speed getting on the backcheck and breaking up plays has been a weapon. Just don't see it enough due to ice time... and due to him usually playing his shifts in one zone or the other... teams don't transition as well offensively against his lines. If their one thing he can do is push the play up the ice. What he does in the zone has a tonne of room for improvement.


Not just scoring... all aspects of his game. Many are still oblivious he has a defensive game.


They wanted him to be an eventful, high work effort player... make SOMETHING, ANYTHING happen with your legs every shift.
Work rate wasn't there consistently cuz conditioning wasn't there. But every once in while he had his legs going and he would tease us like with an 8 shot performance vs Det.

It's coming.
agree with all
 

NucksRock

Registered User
May 16, 2018
450
255
Can we add a poll? How many goals does Jake Virtanen score next year? Everyone operates under the assumption that he is a Canuck, plays somewhere between 2nd and 3rd line minutes with limited, but non-zero PP time. Make the poll public so all the people supposedly predicting doom can eat mad crow if he breaks out and scores 40.

As of right now, I'd peg him at about 12-14 goals and 30 points over a full season.

With no power play time, I'd say 15 goals and 15 assists is a successful year. If he can get 2nd pp time consistently, then 15 should be his expectation with a 20 goal year a success.

My guess is he will see more 3w than 2w play as they will want him to earn his way into it, and he just did show this year he can be a 3rd liner if he's consistent. Now, it also depends how he comes into camp. If he comes in like a bat out of hell and 'takes' that 2nd line role then the higher numbers are plausible but I doubt with so many wingers that's likely.

Baer/Goldy, Bo, Boer is going to be our number one
Baer/Goldy Sutter then Erickson will be given every oppty given his past and salary, then Granny

This ignores any surprises in camp, Petterson on the wing, Dhalen etc.

In all probability he's going to be on a young third line

Leipsic Gaudette Virtanen - so 12-15 is a decent year with a group of kids still learning the pro game
 
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vancityluongo

curse of the strombino
Sponsor
Jul 8, 2006
18,612
6,270
Edmonton
With no power play time, I'd say 15 goals and 15 assists is a successful year. If he can get 2nd pp time consistently, then 15 should be his expectation with a 20 goal year a success.

My guess is he will see more 3w than 2w play as they will want him to earn his way into it, and he just did show this year he can be a 3rd liner if he's consistent. Now, it also depends how he comes into camp. If he comes in like a bat out of hell and 'takes' that 2nd line role then the higher numbers are plausible but I doubt with so many wingers that's likely.

Baer/Goldy, Bo, Boer is going to be our number one
Baer/Goldy Sutter then Erickson will be given every oppty given his past and salary, then Granny

This ignores any surprises in camp, Petterson on the wing, Dhalen etc.

In all probability he's going to be on a young third line

Leipsic Gaudette Virtanen - so 12-15 is a decent year with a group of kids still learning the pro game

Agreed with most of this, good post.

15 goals with no PP time is ambitious though IMO. That's essentially top-90 amongst forwards, which would be incredible/elite production out of 3rd line minutes. Like you said, if he doesn't get PP time, that's a very successful year.

Unless he's suddenly getting 2017 Granlund minutes, I'd be happy with 10 ES goals.
 
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