Jake Gardiner 2.0 - More beast than man now, I am afraid...

IPS

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Sep 28, 2017
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Johansson is also much closer to the net/Rielly (and thus requires smaller distance travelled to pressure him) than Bratt was to the net/Borgman. Borgman would have had to travel a longer distance to get to Bratt.

All this talk of Marner needing to recognize what's happening and cover the front is ignoring that literally all of this happened within 1 second. Unless he has superhuman reflexes that was never going to happen.
It's just some nonsense to justify hatred of a player and push an agenda.
 

Gallagbi

Formerly Eazy_B97
Jul 5, 2005
48,490
11,108
It's just some nonsense to justify hatred of a player and push an agenda.
Nothing to do with hate, everything to do with positioning and reads.

I think I'm 1 of 2 people harping on Marner for that goal and I spent half of yesterday (maybe 2 days ago) highlighting the positive impact he had on JVR/Bozak last year.
 

Slyfox

Registered User
Dec 12, 2016
2,166
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Toronto
Jake had a bad game for sure but still has been steady this season. Also, why is no one blaming Anderson on the 5 on 3. He kicked out the puck instead of holding it. Even the commentators said he was trying to kick it to pass to his teammate. If he held the puck we wouldn't be shitting on Gardiner.
 

MJ65

Registered User
Jul 12, 2009
16,376
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Toronto
Gardiner was directly responsible for the turning point (a loss) in last game

With Toronto trailing 3-2 in the second period and Devils down 2 men and Leafs on PP and an opportunity to tie the game, Gardiner failed to keep the puck in the Devils zone that allowed Devils to score and instead of getting even (to me that was the game). He was bad all night in his decision makingall night and do not expect a game like that from one of your better veterans. I am not going to blame Gardiner for the loss but being a veteran we expect him to be much better and expect some consistency (stud one night and then being awful on other)
 

Duke Silver

Truce?
Jun 4, 2008
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Jake had a bad game for sure but still has been steady this season. Also, why is no one blaming Anderson on the 5 on 3. He kicked out the puck instead of holding it. Even the commentators said he was trying to kick it to pass to his teammate. If he held the puck we wouldn't be ****ting on Gardiner.

Nylander essentially shot it on Andersen, not sure if he was expecting that. Andersen is definitely guilty of being aggressive when the team is on the powerplay, always lobbing the puck up ice for a quick transition, but Gardiner also needs to check for trailers in that scenario instead of double-teaming the first guy with Nylander.

If I were to allocate blame out on that 3v5 goal against, I'd go 60% Gardiner (initial bobble, poor read of surroundings), 30% Nylander (weak on D, shot it at Andersen), 10% Andersen (should have directed into corner or smothered).
 

Gallagbi

Formerly Eazy_B97
Jul 5, 2005
48,490
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Nylander essentially shot it on Andersen, not sure if he was expecting that. Andersen is definitely guilty of being aggressive when the team is on the powerplay, always lobbing the puck up ice for a quick transition, but Gardiner also needs to check for trailers in that scenario instead of double-teaming the first guy with Nylander.

If I were to allocate blame out on that 3v5 goal against, I'd go 60% Gardiner (initial bobble, poor read of surroundings), 30% Nylander (weak on D, shot it at Andersen), 10% Andersen (should have directed into corner or smothered).
Looks like Andersen purposely kicks it out trying to catch the Devils deep. Of course he doesn't do it well and opens himself up for the goal.
 

Bluelines

Python FTW!
Nov 17, 2013
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I'm not sure what you "fans" are expecting, people make mistakes. You people expect perfection from these guys when I bet most of you if you had 100 tries couldn't score on Andersen, couldn't beat Jake one on one, couldn't do 1/100th of what these guys do on a day to day basis.

The flagellating back patting arm chair GMing on these boards is a little much at times. Why?

Those who can do, those who can't teach and those who can't do either are "expert" arm chair GM's.
 

Duke Silver

Truce?
Jun 4, 2008
8,610
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Toronto/St. John's
Looks like Andersen purposely kicks it out trying to catch the Devils deep. Of course he doesn't do it well and opens himself up for the goal.

Agreed, he does do that.

I'm not sure what you "fans" are expecting, people make mistakes. You people expect perfection from these guys when I bet most of you if you had 100 tries couldn't score on Andersen, couldn't beat Jake one on one, couldn't do 1/100th of what these guys do on a day to day basis.

The flagellating back patting arm chair GMing on these boards is a little much at times. Why?

Those who can do, those who can't teach and those who can't do either are "expert" arm chair GM's.

Close up the boards, fellas. No need for any further discussion since we're not NHLers.
 
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Joey Hoser

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I'm not sure what you "fans" are expecting, people make mistakes. You people expect perfection from these guys when I bet most of you if you had 100 tries couldn't score on Andersen, couldn't beat Jake one on one, couldn't do 1/100th of what these guys do on a day to day basis.

The flagellating back patting arm chair GMing on these boards is a little much at times. Why?

Those who can do, those who can't teach and those who can't do either are "expert" arm chair GM's.

So why are you posting here? Which one are you?

This is the dumbest comment made here in awhile.
 

Mitchy

#HFOutcasts
Jul 12, 2012
14,477
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The Citadel
Tough game for Jake for sure, but he'll bounce back.

He's had a really hard time receiving passes at the point though. I don't know if it's the ice or what, but that's where most of his problems have started.
 
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MJ65

Registered User
Jul 12, 2009
16,376
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Toronto
Tough game for Jake for sure, but he'll bounce back.

He's had a really hard time receiving passes at the point though. I don't know if it's the ice or what, but that's where most of his problems have started.

Yes for sure and he is way better then his game - he is going to bounce back, he has to be more consistent
 

Slyfox

Registered User
Dec 12, 2016
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Toronto
I'd put more blame than 10% on Anderson. Good goalies don't kick the shot back through the middle. We needed him to bail out his teammate there and even had the chance but flubbed it. Also, the ice was really bad which makes sense since the Raptors played the night before. I'm sure Gardiner will have a bounce back game.
 

Bluelines

Python FTW!
Nov 17, 2013
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So why are you posting here? Which one are you?

This is the dumbest comment made here in awhile.


I'm the guy who comes here to discuss hockey not look for a pat on the back.

I mean really how stupid is it for a fan to come here and think they know more than Lou, Babcock, Shanny, hunter. They think they know the magic fix for the Leafs but Shanny, Lou and Babcock misses "it". I guess that is is the sort of arrogance we get in society when everyone is raised to think they are more special than the nest person, ya got all the answers eh?

Gards is great, Gards is horrible, then two really "smart" armchair GM's flame war for multiple threads, the original debate is lost and no one is any less enlightened and then what is accomplished? In the past I've been sucked into those debates and shame on me.

Time to turn the page and grow up,I'm just going to enjoy a team in Year 2 of a rebuild find its identity, with all the beautiful warts and bruises that will come along the way.

Good luck trying to convince that other expert you are more enlightened than him, tell me how that goes Mmmm'kkkk?
 

Joey Hoser

Registered User
Jan 8, 2008
14,232
4,143
Guelph
I'm the guy who comes here to discuss hockey not look for a pat on the back.

I mean really how stupid is it for a fan to come here and think they know more than Lou, Babcock, Shanny, hunter. They think they know the magic fix for the Leafs but Shanny, Lou and Babcock misses "it". I guess that is is the sort of arrogance we get in society when everyone is raised to think they are more special than the nest person, ya got all the answers eh?

Gards is great, Gards is horrible, then two really "smart" armchair GM's flame war for multiple threads, the original debate is lost and no one is any less enlightened and then what is accomplished? In the past I've been sucked into those debates and shame on me.

Time to turn the page and grow up,I'm just going to enjoy a team in Year 2 of a rebuild find its identity, with all the beautiful warts and bruises that will come along the way.

Good luck trying to convince that other expert you are more enlightened than him, tell me how that goes Mmmm'kkkk?

I think you're a little too emotionally invested in whatever the f*** you are talking about here. Society and people being raised to think they're special? It's just hockey talk man. Quit being a nut.
 

Nithoniniel

Registered User
Sep 7, 2012
20,913
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Skövde, Sweden
I think you're a little too emotionally invested in whatever the **** you are talking about here. Society and people being raised to think they're special? It's just hockey talk man. Quit being a nut.
He's got one point I agree with though. People have a tendency to point out that even someone like Babcock can be wrong, but the same posters can't entertain the notion that their own impressions might not be flawless either. Take Hyman for example. Same posters that say Babcock is a great coach who's also obviously just stubborn and can't see Hyman for what he is, will in no means accept the possibility that perhaps they themselves suffer from confirmation bias on that topic.

It's called bias blind spot, the belief that you don't suffer from the same cognitive biases as everybody else. There's quite a lot of posters that view their own opinion as the rock solid truth while everybody else is mired in bias.
 
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Bluelines

Python FTW!
Nov 17, 2013
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I think you're a little too emotionally invested in whatever the **** you are talking about here. Society and people being raised to think they're special? It's just hockey talk man. Quit being a nut.

We are all products of our environment and to assume you can shut off that social/emotional conditioning just because you are on a sports forum is fallacy.

Fortunately we live in an amazing country and as such you have the right to express your opinion no matter what bias you have. I personally think that this forum would be a better place if the childish back and forth your dumb no your dumb posts are clipped. If people could realize that you express your opinion, if someone is at odds try to understand their POV rather than declaring all out war against them because they dare question your POV. If you still don't agree after this move on and agree to disagree.

Hey maybe I am a nut thinking people could be civil on this forum but I'm a nut who doesn't have to insult and denigrate strangers on a sports forum to feel like a big man.
 

Gallagbi

Formerly Eazy_B97
Jul 5, 2005
48,490
11,108
We are all products of our environment and to assume you can shut off that social/emotional conditioning just because you are on a sports forum is fallacy.

Fortunately we live in an amazing country and as such you have the right to express your opinion no matter what bias you have. I personally think that this forum would be a better place if the childish back and forth your dumb no your dumb posts are clipped. If people could realize that you express your opinion, if someone is at odds try to understand their POV rather than declaring all out war against them because they dare question your POV. If you still don't agree after this move on and agree to disagree.

Hey maybe I am a nut thinking people could be civil on this forum but I'm a nut who doesn't have to insult and denigrate strangers on a sports forum to feel like a big man.

"See none of you are special and none of you realize that. Except me of course, I know I'm not special and that's what makes me special.

And I don't need to insult people in my responses because I'm above that. If you weren't all pieces of garbage, you could be a nice special person like me."

What an odd time to make this post with so much agreement and concessions over the past 3-4 pages on various goals from the last game.
 
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Bluelines

Python FTW!
Nov 17, 2013
12,349
4,559
"See none of you are special and none of you realize that. Except me of course, I know I'm not special and that's what makes me special.

And I don't need to insult people in my responses because I'm above that. If you weren't all pieces of garbage, you could be a nice special person like me."

What an odd time to make this post with so much agreement and concessions over the past 3-4 pages on various goals from the last game.

If my post struck home with you, if you saw yourself in the words of my post, I apologize I was not referring to you.

Cheers have a great day.
 

Joey Hoser

Registered User
Jan 8, 2008
14,232
4,143
Guelph
We are all products of our environment and to assume you can shut off that social/emotional conditioning just because you are on a sports forum is fallacy.

Fortunately we live in an amazing country and as such you have the right to express your opinion no matter what bias you have. I personally think that this forum would be a better place if the childish back and forth your dumb no your dumb posts are clipped. If people could realize that you express your opinion, if someone is at odds try to understand their POV rather than declaring all out war against them because they dare question your POV. If you still don't agree after this move on and agree to disagree.

Hey maybe I am a nut thinking people could be civil on this forum but I'm a nut who doesn't have to insult and denigrate strangers on a sports forum to feel like a big man.

I see nothing but reasonably civil discourse in the last couple pages of this thread. I think you're probably just upset that someone disagreed with you, and instead of "agreeing to disagree", you decided to make it seem like society and everyone have something wrong with them.

Maybe take your own advice.
 

LeafFever

Registered User
Feb 12, 2016
18,890
6,178
I get really frustrated with Leaf fans in regards to dmen. You cannot have one bad game in Toronto. Some of the top dmen in the NHl make bad mistakes and no one notices them.
Gardiner is getting the Murphy/McCabe treatment now.
 

LeafingTheWay

Registered User
May 31, 2014
6,726
1,855
I get really frustrated with Leaf fans in regards to dmen. You cannot have one bad game in Toronto. Some of the top dmen in the NHl make bad mistakes and no one notices them.
Gardiner is getting the Murphy/McCabe treatment now.

I agree. Even if we had a Nylander/Marner level D-man people would still get very frustrated because he's not perfect. Toronto needs a Matthews level D-men to satisfy their fans
 

bunjay

Registered User
Nov 9, 2008
12,992
58
I get really frustrated with Leaf fans in regards to dmen. You cannot have one bad game in Toronto. Some of the top dmen in the NHl make bad mistakes and no one notices them.
Gardiner is getting the Murphy/McCabe treatment now.

McCabe was no longer effective when they started calling interference. Casual fans might have turned on him because of a couple bad games, but more knowledgeable hockey fans knew he was finished.
 

MapleLeafistan

Registered User
Oct 5, 2017
1,278
676
Victoria, BC
I get really frustrated with Leaf fans in regards to dmen. You cannot have one bad game in Toronto. Some of the top dmen in the NHl make bad mistakes and no one notices them.
Gardiner is getting the Murphy/McCabe treatment now.

The reason is because people are not seeing an improvement from Gardiner...he has flashes of brilliance and then within a span of a game has a brain aneurysm and forgets how to play hockey...sometimes I just sit and wonder what is this guy doing. His inconsistency is frustrating to watch...on the other hand, Rielly (who came much later than Gardiner) has improved and is clearly showing signs of becoming better.

Leafs fans are not as dumb as you think...some of the calls for the players heads are justified.
 

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