Jake Gardiner 2.0 - More beast than man now, I am afraid...

thewave

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Jun 17, 2011
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That is true, but if it does happen, forwards need to collapse. Not just hold their position and allow a free space in front of the net while covering the points.

Exactly

Jake is still great, best D but I mean that was a really terrible game lol
 

thewave

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Jun 17, 2011
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The reverse in direction is when he sees RIELLY'S mistake, not his own. Marner was going to cut off the pass back up the boards, as he should. He can't assume that Rielly is going to chase out of position for a puck he has no chance at. Rielly was in position to both block a pass and prevent the player from walking to the front of the net. Then he kept going and was no longer covering anybody.

Rielly never once had eyes on the guy infront, he was puck watching and skating to take that man. It was a breakdown.

Jake #1
 

ACC1224

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Please, that wasn't Marner's responsibility at all. Either you are biased against Mitch or you know jack squat, take your pick. Jeez. BOTH D abandoned the front of the net, that NEVER should happen, they mixed up their coverage, PERIOD. Man this place...
Yep.
This place for better or worse is open to anyone to post, regardless of knowledge.
Sometimes it's best just to chuckle and move on.
 

DarkKnight

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Jan 17, 2017
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Couldn't agree more. People talk about Gardiner eliminating mistakes from his game as if that's something any defenseman can just do if they try harder. Yeah, I'd love for him to become a combination of Lidstrom and Orr, too, but it's not happening. The good outweighs the bad and he's been trending in the right direction for a while now.
He has simplified his game in some respects, he will make the simple pass up ice rather than turn around in his own end more times than not now, but he will always be flawed, in the sense he's creative and with that comes some risk. Marner will always have that in his game too, I'm just glad our coach is smart enough to realize you need to let skill create, nothing ventured nothing gained. Jack is fine, never been better.
 
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bunjay

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Nov 9, 2008
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That is true, but if it does happen, forwards need to collapse. Not just hold their position and allow a free space in front of the net while covering the points.

It happened too fast for Marner to do anything about it. The coverage down low fell apart and literally a second later the puck is in the net.
 
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bunjay

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He has simplified his game in some respects, he will make the simple pass up ice rather than turn around in his own end more times than not now, but he will always be flawed, in the sense he's creative and with that comes some risk. Marner will always have that in his game too, I'm just glad our coach is smart enough to realize you need to let skill create, nothing ventured nothing gained. Jack is fine, never been better.

Players that can skate and handle the puck and shoot the way Gardiner can should take more risks. They should be calculated risks but it's a fast game. The best you can hope for with a player like Gardiner is that it works more often than it doesn't. And IMO that's the case.
 
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DarkKnight

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That is true, but if it does happen, forwards need to collapse. Not just hold their position and allow a free space in front of the net while covering the points.
I'd agree if the D were actually engaged behind the net, instead of just standing on either side of the net, his mistake was assuming the D would read the play, which is why he moved back higher. As well, that play was structured, it's not like the D was chasing out of his position, there was no excuse for that breakdown on a slow play.
 

thewave

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Morgan was in pursuit of the puck carrier. Marner had his eyes on the puck carrier. You can see it right in the freaking video. He looked to the point and started for the point and lacked awareness of the man in front.

Case closed. Marner engaged the wrong way. No debate needed. Its all on video. Email any authority on the topic for a breakdown on this play.

His scramble to front was because he knew he made the wrong choice. Its on video, video, his head is pointed at the puck carrier, was not looking.
 

bunjay

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Morgan was in pursuit of the puck carrier.

That's fine unless you're on the PK and already have one d-man below the icing line. He pursued the puck carrier but he had a 0% chance of gaining possession, or even making it a 50/50 battle. So it was a mistake.
 
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FreeBird

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Dec 18, 2005
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It happened too fast for Marner to do anything about it. The coverage down low fell apart and literally a second later the puck is in the net.

Marner needs to step up he's not making the same impact as last year at this time, over handling the puck and too many give a way's.
 

diceman934

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Ideally, Rielly would not pressure his guy down low there in that situation. Just cut off the passing option. If not, you wish Borgman had played that situation more carefully, allowing them time behind the net to not open up lanes in front. If not, you'd want our forwards to collapse down.

As with most goals, it was the result of nice passing play from the scoring team, and a string of mistakes on the defensive side. Fans tend to want to focus their frustrations on one target though, even if it isn't exactly fair.
My god that was a basic rotation and Rielly was the only one not st fault. He pressured the puck.
That was Borgman’s man.

Stop deflecting.

Gardiner has been below-average these last two games, and that’s being nice. Gives up the blue line way too easy, can’t keep a puck in the zone (and I’m not talking about the 3-on-5 goal), soft with the puck and passes are off. He’s allowed to be off for a few games but hoping this doesn’t continue.

Consistency remains his biggest flaw.
yes not Rielly fault on that goal at all. It was a basic rotation read
 

diceman934

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Oh look here comes sticky111 from out under his bridge for the first time this season. What exactly was your idol Rielly doing behind the net on that 3rd goal again? Oh yeah, another terrible read again leaving a man wide open in front of the net.
You do understand that while killing a penalty that you are not playing anything close to man to man coverage. Rotations are used and he (Rielly) pressured the puck as he is to do under our Pk system he was responsible for doing so on his side of the ice. He took away time and space and forced a pass. The person who made the bad read was his D partner as he pressures the puck with out net front support.
 

bunjay

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Nov 9, 2008
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My god that was a basic rotation and Rielly was the only one not st fault. He pressured the puck.

yes not Rielly fault on that goal at all. It was a basic rotation read

What do you call a "basic rotation" when only one of four players on the ice is doing it?

A mistake. By that player.
 
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TheMadHatTrick

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You do understand that while killing a penalty that you are not playing anything close to man to man coverage. Rotations are used and he (Rielly) pressured the puck as he is to do under our Pk system he was responsible for doing so on his side of the ice. He took away time and space and forced a pass. The person who made the bad read was his D partner as he pressures the puck with out net front support.

Disagree completely. He made a bad read. The guy behind the net was no threat. He was already in position to either cut off a pass or stop him if he walked out for a jam play.

Part of reading the play is knowing when to pressure to the outside and when to stay at home. It's not about man to man but threat assessment which Rielly often misreads (example: 1st goal against of the preseason against Ottawa). Of course it's easier to blame the player not in your avatar.
 
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Raym11

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Oct 6, 2009
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Im going to try to forget last night happened and hope 20 more of those arent in store for us this year. Those are the games that cause Gardiner opinions to be so polarizing. He was hot garbage last night. there's no real way to defend that even for the biggest apologists.

I'd still rather have Gardiner than no Gardiner with no realistic trades available, for every game like that he has a couple where he's lights out
 

diceman934

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Disagree completely. He made a bad read. The guy behind the net was no threat. He was already in position to either cut off a pass or stop him if he walked out for a jam play.

Part of reading the play is knowing when to pressure to the outside and when to stay at home. It's not about man to man but threat assessment which Rielly often misreads (example: 1st goal against of the preseason against Ottawa). Of course it's easier to blame the player not in your avatar.
I do not have the time to educate you but will offer a suggest. Watch when we are on the pk and if you can pay attention you will see the same read and hopefully a better rotation by others on the ice to see that his read was as per their system.
 

TheMadHatTrick

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I do not have the time to educate you but will offer a suggest. Watch when we are on the pk and if you can pay attention you will see the same read and hopefully a better rotation by others on the ice to see that his read was as per their system.

Not to be snarky, but I always find it funny when people act condescending and offer to educate others but can't even demonstrate a basic grasp of grammar.

As for your point we'll have to agree to disagree. There is far less rotating on our PK than during even - strength coverage.

I'm curious about one thing though. Has anything ever been even partially Rielly's fault in your eyes or have you ever criticized his play? If so please show me the link to that post, as I don't really see the purpose in debating a point without a certain level of bona fides on both sides.
 

diceman934

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This is about Gardiner and as the Bozak vs Kadri threads always went...defenders spin the criticism in to another player. Gardiner was horrible all in his own several times last night
Not to be snarky, but I always find it funny when people act condescending and offer to educate others but can't even demonstrate a basic grasp of grammar.

As for your point we'll have to agree to disagree. There is far less rotating on our PK than during even - strength coverage.

I'm curious about one thing though. Has anything ever been even partially Rielly's fault in your eyes or have you ever criticized his play? If so please show me the link to that post, as I don't really see the purpose in debating a point without a certain level of bona fides on both sides.

I explained rotation to you and you failed to grasp that it is part of our PK. I suggested that you watch more closely as I have seen this same pressure and you dismissed it. Then you attack grammar....wow talk about posting nonsense!
 

TheMadHatTrick

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Nov 2, 2008
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This is about Gardiner and as the Bozak vs Kadri threads always went...defenders spin the criticism in to another player.

Thanks for confirming what I already suspected. There's no rational discussion possible with you on this subject in which you're obviously emotionally invested, so best to move. Can't even cite one example. That says it all.
 

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