Jagr or Orr?

Discussion in 'The History of Hockey' started by chooch*, Nov 8, 2006.

  1. chooch*

    chooch* Guest

    The more I see 68 and the longer he plays at that level, I 'm agreeing with those who say that outside of Mario, Jagr is the best player of the past 35 years (goalies not incl).

    And to think they played on the same team for awhile.

    My top 5 are Mario, Hasek, Orr, Jagr and Lafleur. Time to switch 3 and 4.

    And yeah I'm talking about from those who I saw play - no Dennenys or Morenz or Bobbyrov or Furriersov or whatever..
     
  2. tape-2-tape

    tape-2-tape Registered User

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2005
    Messages:
    573
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Parts/Customer Serv. Rep.
    Location:
    NH
    Well, maybe a poll would do here? I vote Orr as always!
     
  3. Sens Rule

    Sens Rule Registered User

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    23,033
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    116
    Jagr does perhaps deserve a better All-Time ranking than he gets. Still he is not near the level of Bobby Orr or Wayne Gretzky.

    But I guess Jagr never ran over your cat.
     
  4. nikebauer

    nikebauer Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2005
    Messages:
    867
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Vancouver
    Jagr is so DOMINANT and can take over a game

    Orr REVOLUTIONIZED the way the game was played by defencemen

    I would probably take Jagr
     
  5. Heat McManus

    Heat McManus Registered User

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2003
    Messages:
    10,407
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Alexandria, VA

    I agree 100% lots of guys can change the course of a game, few can change the sport itself.
     
  6. EagleBelfour

    EagleBelfour Registered User

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2005
    Messages:
    7,434
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    96
    Home Page:
    QFT ... So, Jagr for me!
     
  7. Jagr: A complete package with a porcelain ego.
    Orr: Flawless.

    Guess who I think is/was better.
     
  8. Ol' Jase

    Ol' Jase No mas, Adam. No mas Sponsor

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2005
    Messages:
    11,580
    Likes Received:
    1,408
    Trophy Points:
    170
    Location:
    Edmonton
    Oh, please, let it be me this time:

    Say, Chooch, what about Gretzky? You forgot Gretzky. What? You hate Gretzky? Why? Oh, you think he sucked. Why? Oh, because you say so.

    How did I do?
     
  9. Rico Fatastic

    Rico Fatastic Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2002
    Messages:
    2,979
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Mariusz Czerkawski?
     
  10. Wrong Polish guy. The answer is Oliwa.
     
  11. Nalyd Psycho

    Nalyd Psycho Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    24,415
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    No Bandwagon
    Home Page:
    Jagr is great. But him never winning a cup without Lemieux is a black mark for sure. He's no Bobby Orr.
     
  12. Czech Your Math

    Czech Your Math Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2006
    Messages:
    4,846
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    bohemia
    I'm a great fan of Jagr, but hard to put him over Bobby Orr, unless you factor in durability.

    Also, it's hard to compare a skater and a goalie, although I would point out Jagr has won the award for best Czech hockey player 7 times to Hasek's 5.

    I would say there hasn't ever been a better forward at even strength than Jagr. The last three (and only confirmed) seasons a player has led the NHL in even strength goals and assists in the same season it was Jagr. Lemieux only played during part of one of the five seasons Jagr won the Ross, and amazingly he finished second the years he set the NHL record for points/assists for a RW and the Ranger record for goals/points. Adjusting for league scoring and games missed due to NHL labor disputes, Jagr is already top five in adjusted career goals/points, and would probably end up second or third in each category, with a shot at being the leader in all-time adjusted goals (ironic for a player who has never led NHL in goals).

    Best 5 non-goalies of past 40 years:

    1. Lemieux
    2. Orr
    3. Gretzky
    4. Jagr
    5. Espo/Lafleur
     
  13. Little Nilan

    Little Nilan Registered User

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2006
    Messages:
    8,209
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    Praha
    Well, Orr by all accounts is most likely the best player in history. Jagr is a good player, but it's debatle if he's the best of his generation. I would take a heatlhy Lidstrom, Hasek or Forsberg in front of him.
     
  14. Jason MacIsaac

    Jason MacIsaac Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,958
    Likes Received:
    190
    Trophy Points:
    141
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    NWO RCN
    Location:
    Halifax, NS
    First, I can't believe this is even a poll. Second, how in the hell can someone choose Jagr with a straight face. I don't care how talented and dominant you think Jagr is, doesn't seem it come playoff time, Jagr is not in the same league as Orr.
     
  15. Pantokrator

    Pantokrator Who's the clown?

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2004
    Messages:
    5,055
    Likes Received:
    50
    Trophy Points:
    102
    Location:
    Semmes, Alabama
    I have been impressed by Jagr lately and his ability to be so stinkin' good this late in his career, but you gotta take Orr. I acknowledge that Jagr is dominant, but Orr was dominant offensively as a defensman! I beleive he is the only defensman to lead the league in scoring, and he did it twice! This guy's speed was so dominant, that he could afford to take offensive gambles and still get back on defense. Also, at least for me, that stint in Washington doesn't help Jagr's case. I am not aware of any attitude issues with Orr (if so, enlighten me).
     
  16. Little Nilan

    Little Nilan Registered User

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2006
    Messages:
    8,209
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    Praha
    Bobby Orr's character compares very favorably to Jean Beliveau.
     
  17. Pfft

    Pfft Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Messages:
    1,522
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    97
    Lemieux was great. But him never winning a cup without Jagr is a black mark for sure. He's no Bobby Orr.
     
  18. espo*

    espo* Guest

    Number 4 is always number 4,except when it comes to all time best hockey players lists.................then he turns into number 1.

    Jagr is no Orr.
     
  19. pappyline

    pappyline Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2005
    Messages:
    4,409
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    101
    Location:
    Mass/formerly Ont
    If you go back 40 years to 1966, you end up picking up some prime years for guys like Hull & Mikita plus Howe & Beliveau still had some good NHL years left which surely pushes Jagr out of your top 5. It doesn't make since to rate players for a set period of time such as 40 or 35 years. Either rate them all time or don't rate them at all. As far as Chooch's premise that Jagr is better than Orr--Ridiculous!!
     
  20. trevchar1971

    trevchar1971 Registered User

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2006
    Messages:
    509
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Not as close as some may believe.... Orr by a mile.
     
  21. bigbadbruin77

    bigbadbruin77 Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2003
    Messages:
    697
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Mass
    Orr by a long shot. Jagr is a great player. But he wouldn't even make my top 20
     
  22. RUSqueelin*

    RUSqueelin* Registered User

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2005
    Messages:
    1,061
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Did I miss something? Did Orr play in the West or something?:confused:
     
  23. 04' hockey

    04' hockey Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2003
    Messages:
    777
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Philly Firefighter
    Location:
    City of Brotherly Lo
    Home Page:
    Be honest, how many points would ORR put up today in this no hold, no hook, Ice Capades of a hockey league we're watching now?

    Be honest.

    :handclap:
     
  24. HAPPY HOUR

    HAPPY HOUR Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2005
    Messages:
    5,299
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    New York
    Why or we have both on the Rangers right now.;)
     
  25. Kafka

    Kafka Registered User

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2002
    Messages:
    5,365
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    Montreal
    Home Page:
    In the '70s, Orr, in the '90s, Jagr.

    By the way, I though a guy named Wayne Gretzky did pretty well too.
     

Share This Page

monitoring_string = "358c248ada348a047a4b9bb27a146148"