Player Discussion Jacob De La Rose II

[417]

So what would you suggest his offensive upside is based on your scouting?

Not sure if this is just a dig, but i'm not a scout.

Just providing my opinion on what I see - it is by no means a professional evaluation.

I'm not sure how your opinion on DLR's offense really differs from people who don't believe he can put up more than 4th liner production.

I think he's a player who can chip in 30-35pts depending on who he plays with.

I think that's better than 4th line production.

 

[417]

Not a lot, but you don't want to shelter a 4th line and ideally you want to be able to send them out against anyone for a defensive zone face-off/in the D-zone and have them come off, not being scored on, with the puck either in the neutral zone or the other team's end.

And I don't see why DLR couldn't be capable of playing this role.

Right, but he's not going to be playing with (or shouldn't be playing with) Chucky and Lehkonen on the 4th line. And its pretty hard to look at him as being anything but a drag long-term on the 2nd line. His job on the 4th line is to not get scored on and put the scoring lines in a position to score. And he doesn't do that well.

If you're expecting him to do that, on a 4th line, playing 8 mins a game with AHL plugs like he was most of the year...no, he's not going to do that well.

He's not going to drive a line, so if he's playing with Byron Froese & Daniel Carr or Nic Deslauriers on the 4th line...no he's not likely to provide much offense because he's a complimentary player offensively at this stage of his career.

But on a 3rd line playing with say...Byron & Shaw or Hudon...

Yes I do think he can contribute offensively and provide solid defensive play.

 

[Captain Mountain]

And I don't see why DLR couldn't be capable of playing this role.

He could play that role. Its just nothing in his play at the AHL or NHL level to date really shows he plays that role well.

If you're expecting him to do that, on a 4th line, playing 8 mins a game with AHL plugs like he was most of the year...no, he's not going to do that well.

He's not going to drive a line, so if he's playing with Byron Froese & Daniel Carr or Nic Deslauriers on the 4th line...no he's not likely to provide much offense because he's a complimentary player offensively at this stage of his career.

But on a 3rd line playing with say...Byron & Shaw or Hudon...

Yes I do think he can contribute offensively and provide solid defensive play.

I'd be fine if DLR wasn't the drag on pretty much everyone he plays with. And I'm not looking for any offense from him. Nothing in my previous post suggested I care about his offense. I'm looking for him to provide decent possession metrics, not give up a bunch of scoring chances and not get scored on. And he has a ton of work to do in that regard.

 

[DAChampion]

He could play that role. Its just nothing in his play at the AHL or NHL level to date really shows he plays that role well.



I'd be fine if DLR wasn't the drag on pretty much everyone he plays with. And I'm not looking for any offense from him. Nothing in my previous post suggested I care about his offense. I'm looking for him to provide decent possession metrics, not give up a bunch of scoring chances and not get scored on. And he has a ton of work to do in that regard.

He has a ton of work to do, but remember the past few years of development have been awful for him. He was always going to be a challenging case, and he has bounced around erratically between Lefebvre and Therrien, two coaches who deserve a D-grade at best for development ability. It may take time, but he does have some good fundamentals, the Habs are tanking anyway, so he should be given a good opportunity to grow.

 

[417]

He could play that role. Its just nothing in his play at the AHL or NHL level to date really shows he plays that role well.



I'd be fine if DLR wasn't the drag on pretty much everyone he plays with. And I'm not looking for any offense from him. Nothing in my previous post suggested I care about his offense. I'm looking for him to provide decent possession metrics, not give up a bunch of scoring chances and not get scored on. And he has a ton of work to do in that regard.

that's part of developing.

 

[Wats]

Not sure if this is just a dig, but i'm not a scout.

Just providing my opinion on what I see - it is by no means a professional evaluation.


I think he's a player who can chip in 30-35pts depending on who he plays with.

I think that's better than 4th line production.

Not sure why everything needs to be a dig. 30-35 points is definitively much higher than what I believe to be his upside so your comments make much more sense.

I disagree. This would make him better offensively than Eller, who at 20 years old put up 57 points in AHL and at 19 put up 29 points in SHL. See his offense between Mitchell and Deslaurier, 15-25 points depending on who he plays with. He's physical on forecheck, generates turnovers in offensive zone, and goes to the net.

I'm of the opinion that skills with the puck/shot/passing aren't something that can improve drastically through just icetime.

 

[montreal]

We were told by the same negative fans here that this goalie was the only reason the team was winning under Therrien. So you all agreed that Price was the cornerstone of this franchise and now you blame Bergevin for the contract he gave him? Was he the best in the world or not? Emotive fans cannot change their tune like that when things go wrong. You cannot blame him for this contract, you were all agreeing that Price was everything for this team. Emotive fans have no reasons to be pissed off now. Bergevin secured the goalie they were all praising as the only reason for the relative success this team had.

The most important thing is that we are now passed the 2005-2007 pseudo core some thought was good enough to contend for a cup. This is not MB's fault. There was a draft hole between 2008 and 2011 that did not allow MB to reach the critical mass of talent needed. Look at Dallas, they got Radulov with Benn and Séguin and they will miss the playoffs. The Habs were not close enough to be contenders even with Radulov, Markov, Subban instead of Weber and Sergachev instead of Drouin. You need to lose before winning in this league and this year is our year, and maybe next year too. But the team has a good basis with many good young players, a solid pipeline that will only get stronger after the next draft with a top-7 pick and at least six top-70 picks to add to our four top-70 picks from last year and bright late picks like Fleury and Primeau. The future is bright, fans just need to calm down.

Such a crock of shit. The fans didn't give Price 84M and then watch him suck. It doesn't matter what he did, it's about what he's going to do when you sign someone to an 8 year contract. If you look at the thread when that contract was signed posters were pissed that he got so much. If Price killed it this year then at least fans could look at the new contract as hopefully he will keep this up so they can trade him at some point while he still has value. Now they are stuck with that contract that's going to eat up a lot of cap space until he rebounds. Price is being outplayed by Nemi, and that's a scary thought.

What f***ing audacity to suggest fans don't have a reason to be pissed off. Any time a team is about to have their worst season in 70 years or so, they have EVERY right to be pissed off no matter what the reasons.

The future is bright, how f***ing long we do have to hear that while the team does nothing year after year. They don't have 1 high end prospect outside of maybe Scherbak who might turn into a 1st line player possibly but yet the future is bright. Sure.

That’s a negative way of looking at it, we don’t all have to have similar opinions. Nice to see you personally attack somebody after they give their thoughts. Your a cool cat. Enjoy hating

Negative? How about reality? I never said anything about people needing to have similar opinions, I just don't see how anyone can not understand why fans are so pissed off. But yes I now hate this team and what it's become, which is flat out terrible.

 

[Habs100]

You need a lot of depth to play those guys on the third line, and the Habs are deep in grind but very shallow in skill. So little, that it's debatable if there is even a 1st line.

With Pacioretty, Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Drouin, and Scherbak, we're 1 player away.

Even if Byron, Hudon, Lehkonen, or Danault step into the top six, that still leaves 3 of them for the 3rd line.

 

[417]

Not sure why everything needs to be a dig. 30-35 points is definitively much higher than what I believe to be his upside so your comments make much more sense.

I wasn't sure if your comment was sarcastic

I disagree. This would make him better offensively than Eller, who at 20 years old put up 57 points in AHL and at 19 put up 29 points in SHL. See his offense between Mitchell and Deslaurier, 15-25 points depending on who he plays with. He's physical on forecheck, generates turnovers in offensive zone, and goes to the net.

Well we're talking about a 5pt difference between what you think and I think...I don't think there's much difference.

Alot of it is going to depend on who he plays with.

But just for context - DLR has been able to accumulate pretty much half of the point total (12pts) you think his max potential is (25pts), in 49 games this year...and in only 17 of those games did he actually get icetime with some NHL quality players.

Is it that unreasonable to think he could keep that pace up for 82 games?

I certainly don't think so.

I'm of the opinion that skills with the puck/shot/passing aren't something that can improve drastically through just icetime.

DLR's got a heavy shot, so I don't think that's the issue...he's got to improve his puck handling but I think that's got more to do with confidence, something he repeated SEVERAL times post game on Antichambre after Saturday night's game.

Again, hard for me to pinpoint exactly where I think his numbers will end up being, a lot of it is circumstancial...but I think a point total similar to what Eller has been doing throughout his career seems like a fair projection.

 

[Wats]

I wasn't sure if your comment was sarcastic


Well we're talking about a 5pt difference between what you think and I think...I don't think there's much difference.

Alot of it is going to depend on who he plays with.

But just for context - DLR has been able to accumulate pretty much half of the point total (12pts) you think his max potential is (25pts), in 49 games this year...and in only 17 of those games did he actually get icetime with some NHL quality players.

Is it that unreasonable to think he could keep that pace up for 82 games?

I certainly don't think so.


DLR's got a heavy shot, so I don't think that's the issue...he's got to improve his puck handling but I think that's got more to do with confidence, something he repeated SEVERAL times post game on Antichambre after Saturday night's game.

Again, hard for me to pinpoint exactly where I think his numbers will end up being, a lot of it is circumstancial...but I think a point total similar to what Eller has been doing throughout his career seems like a fair projection.

Don't agree confidence will help him in that ability. when he never had it to begin with in lower leagues.

When Deslaurier was a 23 year old rookie in NHL, he put up 15 points. When Mitchell was a 22 year old rookie, he put up 20 points. IMO they're much more comparable to DLR than Eller in terms of skill and production, especially when you look at their production leading up to NHL and do an eye test. Maybe a mixture of Torey Mitchell (speed/defensive ability/stick/shot) and Deslaurier (size/physicality/puck skills).

Maybe he gives you 30-35 points, who knows. But to me there's nothing wrong with a 15-25 point 4th line C..

 

[417]

Don't agree confidence will help him in that ability. when he never had it to begin with in lower leagues.

You don't think confidence helps with puck handling?

Don't agree there at all, but that's fine.

When Deslaurier was a 23 year old rookie in NHL, he put up 15 points. When Mitchell was a 22 year old rookie, he put up 20 points. IMO they're much more comparable to DLR than Eller in terms of skill and production, especially when you look at their production leading up to NHL and do an eye test. Maybe a mixture of Torey Mitchell (speed/defensive ability/stick/shot) and Deslaurier (size/physicality/puck skills).

Maybe he gives you 30-35 points, who knows. But to me there's nothing wrong with a 15-25 point 4th line C..

There really isn't much difference in terms of what we're debating here...I mean if you think he could get 25pts as a 4th line center, i'm not sure how you can't see that he could put up 30 as a 3rd line center.

This is splitting hairs and/or semantics at this point. I mean you asked me what I think his upside is..

To which I responded 30-35pt center...

You think his upside is 15-25pt 4th line center...

Seems like we're pretty much on the same page.

 

[Vachon23]

he as the potential to be a good bottom 6 center he as the size, the hockey sens and he skate well

 

[Wats]

You don't think confidence helps with puck handling?

Don't agree there at all, but that's fine.



There really isn't much difference in terms of what we're debating here...I mean if you think he could get 25pts as a 4th line center, i'm not sure how you can't see that he could put up 30 as a 3rd line center.

This is splitting hairs and/or semantics at this point. I mean you asked me what I think his upside is..

To which I responded 30-35pt center...

You think his upside is 15-25pt 4th line center...

Seems like we're pretty much on the same page.

We are on the same page in that he's a bottom 6er. I just see his talent level offensively similar to Torey Mitchell/Deslaurier than Eller. I don't see any signs of there being untapped puck skills that would come up with confidence.

 

[Habs100]

We are on the same page in that he's a bottom 6er. I just see his talent level offensively similar to Torey Mitchell/Deslaurier than Eller. I don't see any signs of there being untapped puck skills that would come up with confidence.

I can only see him potentially scoring by shoveling in rebounds around the net or using his heavy shot from the slot, kind of like a power forward from a previous era. But even doing that requires a nose for the net and a shot, two things he hasn't shown, but that there's a possibility he could develop.

At any rate, I liked seeing him tapping his stick to call for the puck. He's definitely got to play more assertive and looking to make things happen. As much as I'd rather see Galchenyuk as our #2 C and perhaps Byron as our #3 C, I like giving DLR ice time as I want to see what he can do when he gets more NHL experience and confidence.

Perhaps he'd be a better winger, as his offensive game is more like that of a power forward.

 

[yianik]

Last year with his last 20 or so games in the AHL, I had a bit of hope he wasn't an offensive black hole.

This year up until the last 20 or so games it seemed clear he had no role to play on this team.

Now there is some hope again. I think there is some ability there and with our depth of so so skilled wingers he might ne able to centre a 40-45 goal 3rd line, which would be great.

If just a 4th liner, well ok. He is big, has some speed, hits etc. Fourth line needs to pot about 25 goals in my view.

I hope he gets a real shot at 3rd line. But we will see if Pleks is back or not.

 

[Fixxer]

Last year with his last 20 or so games in the AHL, I had a bit of hope he wasn't an offensive black hole.

This year up until the last 20 or so games it seemed clear he had no role to play on this team.

Now there is some hope again. I think there is some ability there and with our depth of so so skilled wingers he might ne able to centre a 40-45 goal 3rd line, which would be great.

If just a 4th liner, well ok. He is big, has some speed, hits etc. Fourth line needs to pot about 25 goals in my view.

I hope he gets a real shot at 3rd line. But we will see if Pleks is back or not.

I find that he has been playing good with Lekhonen and Galchenyuk. He is not the ideal 2nd center, but it seems like he got better at face-offs and is good defensively.

 

[Tyson]

He will be Lars Eller “Light”....he will do many thinks Lars does just as well but I doubt his production reaches Lars’s

 

[Habs Halifax]

Ideally, DLR is the 4th line center and promoted when we get injuries next year. I like his work ethic and size/skating package but he’s limited offensively IMO

Deslauier / DLR / McCarron.. 4th line next year

 

[montreal]

Ideally, DLR is the 4th line center and promoted when we get injuries next year. I like his work ethic and size/skating package but he’s limited offensively IMO

Deslauier / DLR / McCarron.. 4th line next year

agreed. Although I really wonder about Deslauriers and if he will be the same next year. Now maybe it's playing in Quebec that has him going but we are talking about someone that in over 200 NHL games had 12 goals and in 53 games with us he's got 8. Not sure he can keep that up.

Wouldn't mind seeing this line,

DLR McCarron Carr

 

[Habs Halifax]

agreed. Although I really wonder about Deslauriers and if he will be the same next year. Now maybe it's playing in Quebec that has him going but we are talking about someone that in over 200 NHL games had 12 goals and in 53 games with us he's got 8. Not sure he can keep that up.

Wouldn't mind seeing this line,

DLR McCarron Carr

I think deslaurier is a good depth guy and if he doesn’t show up.. AHL or watching games as a spare

I’d also be OK with your 4th line. Very curious to see how the summer goes

 

[The Great Weal]

After seeing this tweet, I don't even think we need Dahlin.

 

[Habs100]

After seeing this tweet, I don't even think we need Dahlin.

I haven't heard too many people agree with me, but I think DLR still could be a good defensive defenseman. He's an excellent skater, makes good decisions, and is an absolute beast. Would it take him time to learn the movements and the subtleties of the position? Absolutely. But he's not going to have an impact on the game as a center.

Bold prediction of his ceiling: he could be a Hedman type of defender, without the offense. The way he skates with the puck reminds me of hedman.​

 

[NotProkofievian]

After seeing this tweet, I don't even think we need Dahlin.

Lol, Grant is really going to town with irrelevant stats.

 

[A55P2]

Wow, never looked at that stats before. The best in the league is at 4.3. That seemed low to me at first, wonder how they calculate those

 

[LaP]

Wow, never looked at that stats before. The best in the league is at 4.3. That seemed low to me at first, wonder how they calculate those

The amount of hits don't matter that much. Gionta was 4th for hits among our forward in 2010-2011 and he was not a physical player at all. Hits like giveaways is a very unreliable stats. What is a hit for one statistician might be a banal contact for another one. And what is a murder tentative for one might be a simple hit for another. I remember Gionta being credited for hits while simply applying pressure on the fore-check. A lot of statisticians tend to be more generous toward small players "hitting" big ones. Like the big player did not even realize he was being hit only the statistician noticed it.

What really matters is big hits disrupting the play and/or hurting the opponent. A late hit to a player expecting it and protecting himself is not worth much specially if the puck is already out of the zone and the other team is having lot of space for their 4 on 4. A hit where the opposing player doesn't lose control of the puck is not worth much either.

A good hit by Emelin at the blue line is worth 10 hits distributed by most players in this league.