Jack Johnson

[Vagrant]

I don't recall Gleason and Belanger on the Hurricanes roster last year when they won the Cup.

So if Jack Johnson was on the Canes roster last season, they wouldn't have won the Cup?

I'm simply saying that they won the Stanley Cup without his services, when our GM was essentially begging for his services at the time he could have signed. JJ is the one that got the short end of that one. I don't care from what angle you're looking at. Justice would likely dictate that he spends a large portion of his career chasing an elusive cup ring when he could have had one for free had he not selected to go back to Michigan.

The only way staying in school is an honorable thing is if you plan to get your degree. Giving two years to a school while talking classes that do not challenge you in order to continue to play college hockey isn't a great sign of character. It's not a detriment either. It's nothing. People trying to exhibit that as proof of his immense character are stretching it.

 

[Vagrant]

Agreed, with all due respect, CaniacForever clearly has something against Johnson and has a hard time discussing things objectively. I'm not saying the guy will or won't be a cancer in the locker room but a few comments like this is nothing to base that on. The guy has a tremendous amount of talent, once he matures a little he's going to be a hell of a hockey player.

I'll admit that I have a hard time with venom torwards Johnson, but a few things need to be cleared up. These aren't sour grapes, here. As i've said many times, had Carolina not won the cup due to an issue with the blueline then there would be justifiable sour grapes. We won. No harm no foul, except for one Jack Johnson. I'm not sure why i'd be bitter about that on his behalf. He's no longer property of the team.

1. I didn't at any point say he would be a lockerroom cancer. Those were the words of another poster.

2. I never once said he wasn't a talented player.

3. I agree with you on the maturation thing. I think the maturation isn't physical, though. I think the maturation is mental. David Tanabe is still working on the mental maturation, if that's any indication of how important that aspect of development is.

 

[WesternCollegeHockey]

Everybody does know what kind of kid Steve Downie. He's the guy that took a cheapshot at a 16 year old kid and knocked half his teeth out.

What exactly was incorrect about what Johnson said?

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I'll admit that I have a hard time with venom torwards Johnson, but a few things need to be cleared up. These aren't sour grapes, here. As i've said many times, had Carolina not won the cup due to an issue with the blueline then there would be justifiable sour grapes. We won. No harm no foul, except for one Jack Johnson. I'm not sure why i'd be bitter about that on his behalf. He's no longer property of the team.

1. I didn't at any point say he would be a lockerroom cancer. Those were the words of another poster.

2. I never once said he wasn't a talented player.

3. I agree with you on the maturation thing. I think the maturation isn't physical, though. I think the maturation is mental. David Tanabe is still working on the mental maturation, if that's any indication of how important that aspect of development is.

I agree with the gist of your posts here, though may quibble with some of the specifics. Generally I love JJ as a prospect, from the little that I have seen of him and from the opinions of people that I respect about him. That said if he were my team's prospect I would certainly worry about what has to be a common perception about him among all 30 NHL GM's that made them pass on him, or offer what seemed to most to be less than value. The Canes did everything but parade him naked down broadway with a for sale sign around his neck, over a long period of time, the better part of a year. And yet almost everyone passed. The Pens, who are stacked at center and for whom a player like JJ would be a perfect fit of talent to huge need . . . . declined and took a huge unknown at the time, Staal instead of the much more, at the time, sure thing and need pick in JJ. Not to mention he was best friends with Crosby too. And yet . . .there was something, had to be, that made them back off. Everyone else did as well until the Canes took what they could. As I said, I love the kid as a prospect, but if I were a Kings fan I would certainly be worried and wondering what it was that made everyone back off like that.

 

[Wooty]

You seem to have some issue with him - your opinion is over the top

The observation here is that JJ is a player that can't keep his mouth shut about his feelings and ends up getting himself recognized for the things that he says rather than the things he does on the ice. You never want to see that in a player.

Why don't you want to see that in a player?

Seems pretty entertaining to me. I wish more players would speak up. Well, not Roenick, I wish he would shut up.

That's the sign of a leader. By voicing how he feels to anybody who will listen, he's showing a very single minded mindset. That was the point of the intial poster, I would imagine.

A leader leads, followers follow. If he is a leader he will lead the followers. If he isn't then he is just a hockey player. If he sucks the Kings will cut him.


Also, why is sticking to your college commitment bad? Leaders do what is right, followers gravy train their rings.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I agree with the gist of your posts here, though may quibble with some of the specifics. Generally I love JJ as a prospect, from the little that I have seen of him and from the opinions of people that I respect about him. That said if he were my team's prospect I would certainly worry about what has to be a common perception about him among all 30 NHL GM's that made them pass on him, or offer what seemed to most to be less than value. The Canes did everything but parade him naked down broadway with a for sale sign around his neck, over a long period of time, the better part of a year. And yet almost everyone passed. The Pens, who are stacked at center and for whom a player like JJ would be a perfect fit of talent to huge need . . . . declined and took a huge unknown at the time, Staal instead of the much more, at the time, sure thing and need pick in JJ. Not to mention he was best friends with Crosby too. And yet . . .there was something, had to be, that made them back off. Everyone else did as well until the Canes took what they could. As I said, I love the kid as a prospect, but if I were a Kings fan I would certainly be worried and wondering what it was that made everyone back off like that.

You have any proof that he was offered and declined by all 29 other GMs in the league or are you just assuming things which it seems like you are. Use some logic. Why should Kings fans be worried about? That you assume every GM in the league passed on trading for him?

 

[Jaded-Fan]

You have any proof that he was offered and declined by all 29 other GMs in the league or are you just assuming things which it seems like you are. Use some logic. Why should Kings fans be worried about? That you assume every GM in the league passed on trading for him?

Actually I do, and it was in my post if you read it. I will say it again for those who seem to have missed it. The Canes did everything but hang a for sale sign around his neck. Over a long period of time. It was common knowledge in the league that he was being shopped and I linked dozens of articles at the time that said as much, including what the offers were, for which I was ripped for by Caniacforever here who I seem to be defending, and other Canes fans, as being 'unfounded', off the wall as too low, etc, etc. One example:

And it now looks as though there's a chance Johnson may never don a Hurricane sweater.

NHL sources tell TSN that in the wake of Johnson's latest decision to stay at school, Carolina GM Jim Rutherford has begun making calls to other GMs in an effort to trade the 6-foot-1, 200-pound, hard-hitting, fast-skating blueliner.

http://tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=177467&hubname=nhl


The papers all over, in their rumor sections were filled with it though. All other 29 GM's obviously knew of it and even said at the time (unnamed reliable sources the articles always said) that it was common knowledge that he was being shopped. Most expected the Pittsburgh trade actually (which would be him + Ladd for Staal). And all, knowing that, declined.

 

[Wooty]

That is not proof, that is what you think happened.

You maybe right but until you show the facts I would wonder why you believe this.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

That is not proof, that is what you think happened.

You maybe right but until you show the facts I would wonder why you believe this.

"He's in play," a source said. "Carolina isn't going to give him away because he's a blue-chip asset, but if they get the right deal, he's gone."

http://tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=177467&hubname=nhl

How the hell more clear do I have to make it to 'prove' it to some of you. You all called me on something that you all should have remembered from last year, and got owned. Deal with it.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Shero had to think long and hard over that offer and ultimately went for keeping the pick, knowing that Carolina really wanted to have the Staal brothers play together, he was probably trying to get Carolina to add more along with Jack Johnson and that deal fell through.

You don't know if other teams passed up on Johnson. For all we know, maybe Carolina felt LA offered the best package, with Gleason being a young stud on the blueline and Belanger replacing Matt Cullen's spot as a two-way 3rd line center who can chip in with some timely goals.

We don't know what other teams offered or what they were thinking. There were no reports of any other deals being offered for Jack Johnson other than the well known Pittsburgh rumor.

There is no reason why Kings fans should be worried. If anything, they should be happy to see that Johnson hates losing. We want more competitive character players on the team. And Johnson sticking with Michigan shows he isn't all about the money.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Shero had to think long and hard over that offer and ultimately went for keeping the pick, knowing that Carolina really wanted to have the Staal brothers play together, he was probably trying to get Carolina to add more along with Jack Johnson and that deal fell through.

You don't know if other teams passed up on Johnson. For all we know, maybe Carolina felt LA offered the best package, with Gleason being a young stud on the blueline and Belanger replacing Matt Cullen's spot as a two-way 3rd line center who can chip in with some timely goals.

We don't know what other teams offered or what they were thinking. There were no reports of any other deals being offered for Jack Johnson other than the well known Pittsburgh rumor.

There is no reason why Kings fans should be worried. If anything, they should be happy to see that Johnson hates losing. We want more competitive character players on the team. And Johnson sticking with Michigan shows he isn't all about the money.

Actually I was not knocking him at all for the most part. I state again, from what little I have seen and from the opinions of people that I respect I love him as a prospect. I stand by what I said though. If Pittsburgh had traded for him I would wonder if there is something that the GM's are worrying about him that we do not know about. And I have no horse in this race, I am not a fan or foe of the Canes or Kings. I could care less about either. I merely am giving a fairly neutral observer's opinion.

 

[Vagrant]

And Johnson sticking with Michigan shows he isn't all about the money.

While you may see it that way, others may see it in a different way. I see Johnson staying in Michigan as a more selfish act. He wants to be the big man on campus for another year instead of actually having to work hard to make a team. I think he's a bit of a headcase, and some of his actions have backed that up. A few really borderline hits in bad situations, a few snippets from his quotes, and things of that nature.

 

[#37]

The observation here is that JJ is a player that can't keep his mouth shut about his feelings and ends up getting himself recognized for the things that he says rather than the things he does on the ice. You never want to see that in a player. Even if it's in reference to the opposition, you keep shallow in the fishwrap and let it rip in the lockerroom if need be. That's the sign of a leader. By voicing how he feels to anybody who will listen, he's showing a very single minded mindset. That was the point of the intial poster, I would imagine.

Exactly.

 

[Wooty]

"He's in play," a source said. "Carolina isn't going to give him away because he's a blue-chip asset, but if they get the right deal, he's gone."

http://tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=177467&hubname=nhl

How the hell more clear do I have to make it to 'prove' it to some of you. You all called me on something that you all should have remembered from last year, and got owned. Deal with it.

I should remember something that you claim happened?

You said every GM turned down a trade. Cite or admit you made it up.
Until you do you are being dishonest.

This is a message board to discuss hockey, prospects and in this case specifically Jack Johnson.

You can give your opinion all you want. When you make claims like they are facts, be prepared to back them up or at the very least act like a big boy and admit that you worded it wrong and it was only your opinion.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I should remember something that you claim happened?

You said every GM turned down a trade. Cite or admit you made it up.
Until you do you are being dishonest.

This is a message board to discuss hockey, prospects and in this case specifically Jack Johnson.

You can give your opinion all you want. When you make claims like they are facts, be prepared to back them up or at the very least act like a big boy and admit that you worded it wrong and it was only your opinion.

What part of 'he is in play' and 'shopped around' don't you get? The GM's do not read the papers and had no clue that he was being shopped around? I stand by my statements and have proven them. Someone here can not admit it, but it is not me. That leaves you.

 

[Wooty]

What part of 'he is in play' and 'shopped around' don't you get? The GM's do not read the papers and had no clue that he was being shopped around? I stand by my statements and have proven them. Someone here can not admit it, but it is not me. That leaves you.

Wow - you can't admit you worded it wrong?

You do know that you claim every GM turned down a trade offer but He was Traded to the Kings? You can't possibly be seeing that you are wrong on your facts and are giving out commentary and opinion.

Come on now.

 

[Vagrant]

Jaded was making a point of saying that everybody knew he was available. That it was common knowledge that he was on the block. By the return for him, which was Gleason and Belanger, it is implied that was the best offer for the team. Jaded is trying to say that since that was the best offer, then scouting information on him must have scared a few teams off due to his immense potential. He isn't trying to say that Rutherford made a direct offer to 29 other teams and took the best one. He's simply saying that it was common knowledge he was on the block, and Carolina got the best offer and took it.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Wow - you can't admit you worded it wrong?

You do know that you claim every GM turned down a trade offer but He was Traded to the Kings? You can't possibly be seeing that you are wrong on your facts and are giving out commentary and opinion.

Come on now.

Facts: He was in play and either Rutherford contacted most if not all GM's, or as it was common knowledge they could have picked up the phone and called him. The Canes got what was generally considered at the time to be below value. The other GM's, knowing that he was being shopped, by inference declined to make offers better than what was offered. Ta-Da!

 

[Herby]

Jack Johnson is a 19 year old sophomore, what is so ridiculous about him wanting to stay in school, play in a WJC and try and win a National Championship?

You only get to go to college once, he'll have plenty of years to spend in the NHL, whether he starts at 19 or 20. To judge someones character or toughness based on staying in school is laughable.

I guess players like Dany Heatley, Paul Kariya, Zach Parise, Ryan Whitney, Thomas Vanek, Mike Cammalleri and Brian Rolston had character issues and couldn't handle the challenge because they decided to stay in school an extra year or two despite being proven dominant players at that level?

Seemed to work for all these guys.

 

[Wooty]

Facts: He was in play and either Rutherford contacted most if not all GM's, or as it was common knowledge they could have picked up the phone and called him. The Canes got what was generally considered at the time to be below value. The other GM's, knowing that he was being shopped, by inference declined to make offers better than what was offered. Ta-Da!

Have you considered that the Canes had just won the cup and it is very hard to make a trade when you are the best team. Who is going to make a trade with the champs to make them better?

The Canes have to be willing to lose out on a prospect to fill their immediate needs.

 

[Wooty]

Jaded was making a point of saying that everybody knew he was available. That it was common knowledge that he was on the block. By the return for him, which was Gleason and Belanger, it is implied that was the best offer for the team. Jaded is trying to say that since that was the best offer, then scouting information on him must have scared a few teams off due to his immense potential. He isn't trying to say that Rutherford made a direct offer to 29 other teams and took the best one. He's simply saying that it was common knowledge he was on the block, and Carolina got the best offer and took it.

I wish you would have put the effort into moderating him when he was owning me with his honesty. You know, like when he told me to "deal with it"

 

[Vagrant]

I wish you would have put the effort into moderating him when he was owning me with his honesty. You know, like when he told me to "deal with it"

That wasn't a direct attack against a poster. There was no name calling. There was nothing really aside from heated debate. We don't discourage heated debate here. We discourage name calling and attacking the poster instead of the points. When he crosses the line, i'll let you know. I'll do the same for you. Please do not quote or respond to this post. If you want to inquire about it more in depth, then shoot me a PM and i'll attempt to explain it better.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Have you considered that the Canes had just won the cup and it is very hard to make a trade when you are the best team. Who is going to make a trade with the champs to make them better?

The Canes have to be willing to lose out on a prospect to fill their immediate needs.

That is possible as well. Lots of things are possible. All that I was saying was that if he were my team's prospect I would have a slight worry because I (and most at the time) believe that the Canes got JJ for less than value. Everyone knew that he was being shopped and could have chimed in with a better offer but apparently did not. It would make me (note my name, Jaded Fan) wonder if something was going on behind the scenes to account for the above. That is all. But I have no personal knowledge other than the above and agree there are other possibilities. The one above seems the more likely to me is all.

 

[FacelessButcher]

because he's scared he can't live up to his own hype.

He wants to be the big man on campus for another year instead of actually having to work hard to make a team.

I can't believe this kind of tripe is coming out of a global mod, lots of college kids opt for another year when offered professional contracts or promises to play in the NHL. Unsubstantiated accusations and senseless bashing serves to the betterment of no one.

 

[Wooty]

That is possible as well. Lots of things are possible. All that I was saying was that if he were my team's prospect I would have a slight worry because I (and most at the time) believe that the Canes got JJ for less than value. Everyone knew that he was being shopped and could have chimed in with a better offer but apparently did not. It would make me (note my name, Jaded Fan) wonder if something was going on behind the scenes to account for the above. That is all. But I have no personal knowledge other than the above and agree there are other possibilities. The one above seems the more likely to me is all.

Why is so much said about him?
I have never seen him play and only know who he is because I like the Kings.