Jack Johnson

[oilers9799]

Judging by today's game I think he is the best defensive prospect in the NHL right now (yes including EJ). This is coming from a true blue team canada fan, but he is just that damn good.

 

[Kwm]

Drawing blood is an auto double minor in the NHL, not IIHF hockey. How can anyone say Jack was hurt when he clearly was fine on the PP.

 

[jaydub*]

Drawing blood is an auto double minor in the NHL, not IIHF hockey. How can anyone say Jack was hurt when he clearly was fine on the PP.

ummm....I don't think people are saying he was hurt and couldn't play. They are saying he was cut and bleeding.

 

[danaluvsthekings]

He is obviously a very talented player but it makes you wonder what's going on in his head if his NHL team traded him away.

He's a franchise player (moreso than Gleason will ever be at this point) and refused to join a teams Stanley Cup run in a year everyone knew they were favourites.

He will be worth the wait for the Kings but hopefully he's as hungry to win a Cup as he is to win the NCAA title.

Perhaps Johnson didn't feel he was NHL ready after one season in college. Perhaps Johnson has a goal of winning an NCAA championship before joining the NHL. The only people that really know what went on last year are Jack Johnson, his family, his representation, and Jim Rutherford.

Carolina had a great regular season last year but I don't think "everyone" looked at their team going into the playoffs and said "Yep, Carolina's the favorite for the cup this year." If Carolina was the Cup favorite going into the playoffs last year, why would they need to pressure a 19 year old kid to come out of school and join their lineup?

Did you think that the reason Carolina traded Johnson might have nothing to do with "what's going on in his head"? Johnson has stated he'd like to win a NCAA championship before turning pro and he might not leave school early, something he has every right to do. Carolina didn't want to wait around for potentially another 3 years for him. Carolina also had a ton of injuries on the blueline right before the season started. Gleason's not a bad player, he's not in Johnson's class, but Carolina needed someone ready to come in and play now. You can argue that Carolina didn't get enough value for Johnson but most experts said that it appeared Rutherford was not very patient with Johnson and decided to move him. I think the bigger question is, did Rutherford not realize Johnson might not turn pro after one year of college when he drafted him? If you draft a kid out of juniors, you might be able to pencil him into your lineup at 19 if you get him signed right away. Drafting kids from college, it's harder to figure out when they're going to join your lineup because some are ready to leave after 1 year, others want to stay all 4.

 

[oilers9799]

Perhaps Johnson didn't feel he was NHL ready after one season in college. Perhaps Johnson has a goal of winning an NCAA championship before joining the NHL. The only people that really know what went on last year are Jack Johnson, his family, his representation, and Jim Rutherford.

Carolina had a great regular season last year but I don't think "everyone" looked at their team going into the playoffs and said "Yep, Carolina's the favorite for the cup this year." If Carolina was the Cup favorite going into the playoffs last year, why would they need to pressure a 19 year old kid to come out of school and join their lineup?

Did you think that the reason Carolina traded Johnson might have nothing to do with "what's going on in his head"? Johnson has stated he'd like to win a NCAA championship before turning pro and he might not leave school early, something he has every right to do. Carolina didn't want to wait around for potentially another 3 years for him. Carolina also had a ton of injuries on the blueline right before the season started. Gleason's not a bad player, he's not in Johnson's class, but Carolina needed someone ready to come in and play now. You can argue that Carolina didn't get enough value for Johnson but most experts said that it appeared Rutherford was not very patient with Johnson and decided to move him. I think the bigger question is, did Rutherford not realize Johnson might not turn pro after one year of college when he drafted him? If you draft a kid out of juniors, you might be able to pencil him into your lineup at 19 if you get him signed right away. Drafting kids from college, it's harder to figure out when they're going to join your lineup because some are ready to leave after 1 year, others want to stay all 4.

NBA players get crucified for leaving after their freshmen years, and hockey players get the same treatment for wanting to stay in school by people saying something is wrong in their heads. These are the samethings people were saying about Jonathan Towes returning to UND this year.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

Erik played better last year then this year. He makes so many silly mistakes but then again defense is a touch position to play perfect. Jack Johnson is amazing, nothing more to be said. If Phaneuf is the next Stevens, Johnson is the next Chellios.

 

[Vagrant]

Quite a few are forgetting the rest of the tournament in which he pretty much stunk it up. Yes, he had a great game but he was expected along with Erik to dominate the tournament as a defensive pairing and it just never came together.

As a Hurricanes fan, I was a bit satiated by his performance in the tournament. It reminded me that we hadn't traded away a defenseman that was complete yet by any means. He turned the puck over like David Tanabe a few times and it gave me some pretty awful flashbacks.

I'm not saying he's not going to develop into a star player in the league, because every indication is that he will, but I certainly see a few question marks in his game after this tournament in terms of his mental approach to the game that were just whispers before.

He has a boat load of talent, that's for sure. I just wonder if he'll be able to get the mental aspects of the game together or if he'll go the way of a few other highly touted defensemen and develop into just an above average defenseman.

 

[jaydub*]

Quite a few are forgetting the rest of the tournament in which he pretty much stunk it up. Yes, he had a great game but he was expected along with Erik to dominate the tournament as a defensive pairing and it just never came together.

As a Hurricanes fan, I was a bit satiated by his performance in the tournament. It reminded me that we hadn't traded away a defenseman that was complete yet by any means. He turned the puck over like David Tanabe a few times and it gave me some pretty awful flashbacks.

I'm not saying he's not going to develop into a star player in the league, because every indication is that he will, but I certainly see a few question marks in his game after this tournament in terms of his mental approach to the game that were just whispers before.

He has a boat load of talent, that's for sure. I just wonder if he'll be able to get the mental aspects of the game together or if he'll go the way of a few other highly touted defensemen and develop into just an above average defenseman.

i'm not sure what mental aspects he has problems with. Sounds like his main problems in this tourny were that he was trying to do too much, which won't be a problem in the NHL where he will fit in well with the competition.

 

[Panopticon]

Quite a few are forgetting the rest of the tournament in which he pretty much stunk it up.

Yes, but his fans probably want to believe that these better games are his regular level and the poor games were just flukes and will never happen again.

He looked like Janne Niinimaa against Canada in the first meeting for God's sake.

 

[littleD]

Yes I saw how very seriously injured Downie was. As soon as he got the call he jumped right up with a smirk on his face and prodeeded to go to work on the Power play.

There was absolutely no smirk on Downie's face. He was dazed, he went to the bench. He was back for the next shift change. If all you want to see is bad in Downie, then that's why you saw a smirk on his face.

The one and only for certain immediate indication of injury is the drawing of blood and that was present in the injury to Johnson and not in the supposed injury to Downie.

There was no "supposed" injury. There was a brutal elbow to the head that lead to a player being stunned. Just because a player comes right back, doesn't mean a player isn't hurt by something. It happens every damn game ffs.

 

[jaydub*]

He is obviously a very talented player but it makes you wonder what's going on in his head if his NHL team traded him away.

He's a franchise player (moreso than Gleason will ever be at this point) and refused to join a teams Stanley Cup run in a year everyone knew they were favourites.

He will be worth the wait for the Kings but hopefully he's as hungry to win a Cup as he is to win the NCAA title.

if carolina were favorites, why did they want to sign JJ? He was a college kid with no pro experience. Doesn't seem like a move a SC favorite would make. He wants to stay in college, good for him, in all other sports everyone rips you for leaving too early. Here JJ getes ripped for staying and people label him as a headcase because of it. I'm sure when he comes to the NHL he will be just as competitive for the cup as he is for an NCAA title.

 

[Vagrant]

i'm not sure what mental aspects he has problems with. Sounds like his main problems in this tourny were that he was trying to do too much, which won't be a problem in the NHL where he will fit in well with the competition.

You're supposed to look more comfortable playing with peers than you are when playing with professionals. There has been talk that Jack Johnson was intimidated by the NHL game and his dedication to Michigan provided him with a very nice alternative as opposed to stepping up and playing at the highest level.

Regardless of what level you play, if you're playing bad and making poor decisions on the ice there is no excuse. He was making bad pinches, weak and predictable passes, and going out of his way to make big hits even if the flow of the play didn't dictate such. He defended a few 2 on 1's like a flat out amateur. Those aren't problems that are going to just disappear at the next level. My point was that many people were saying he was NHL ready, and this tournament proved to me that if he made the jump this year he'd probably look like a fish out of water.

 

[Vagrant]

I'm sure when he comes to the NHL he will be just as competitive for the cup as he is for an NCAA title.

Hindsight is 20-20 of course, but Johnson could have had his name on the Cup this past year had he just signed with the team. Carolina wanted him because they were and still are pretty thin on the blueline. They had a fantastic group of forwards and pretty steady goaltending coming into the playoffs, but the defense was banged up and Oleg Tverdovsky of all people was actually going to be playing.

Word was that Johnson was ready. They made the attempt to sign him and he waffled. This wasn't a team that just barely squeaked into the Playoffs. Carolina had the 3rd best record in the league and was the 2nd seed in the Eastern Conference. When a team that looks to be in that good of position to win gives you a ring, you answer it. Add in the fact that he would have started making serious bank at that point, and you have all the circumstantial evidence for people to start to make claims about your desire to show your talents at the next level. I think he was intimidated, to be honest. That isn't a quality that you look for in a potential franchise defenseman. I think Carolina felt the same way. They traded him for a limited potential player full of heart and soul in Tim Gleason. I think they just wanted something tangible instead of playing the run around with Johnson. This organization is notorious for not wanting situations to become a comedy of errors. They generally don't give in to holdout demands (Keith Primeau), and they were tired of the whole nonsense.

With LA in a rebuilding mode, they could afford to wait for Johnson and even if he busts out it's not going to hurt them all that much with all things considered.

 

[orangeandblack]

the kids a winner in every sense of the word. he logged a ton of minutes, and had a great game. his two goals in the shoot out proved he can handle any kind of pressure and produce when the stakes are high.

 

[CapsWolverinesUSA]

Caniancforever, everything you have said in this thread has been wrong. I don't care if you're a "global moderator".

1) No, Jack has not had a bad tournament except for 1 game. He has had a really good tournament except for 1 game--the 1st Canada game. But when his team absolutely needed him, he stepped up with the game winning goal in a shutdown win vs. Slovakia, the game winning OT goal in a do or die against a tough Sweden squad, an solid performance against Finland in which he scored, and a dominant showing against Canada when it really counted. Ripping on him at this point, you sound bitter, biased and, frankly, dumb.

2) No, Jack would not have made Carolina's post-season roster last year. That is just a falsehood. If they suffered a bunch of injuries, he may have gotten a look for a game or two, but even that wasn't assured. They had 6 proven defensemen playing every night: Ward, Kaberle, Hedican, Comodore, Wesley and Wallin. For whom did you see Jack Johnson stealing a starting position from with no NHL experience? And do you actually think he was even the #7 defensemen had he signed? Over Oleg Tverdovsky who is a veteran with significant playoff experience? I sure don't. Fact is, Carolina wanted to sign him so they could secure him in their system and get him AHL seasoning this year. Everyone who isn't either ignorant or blatently re-writing history knows that. There is a good chance he could have made the big club at some point this season, but that's a very different thing than being a contributor for a cup contender in the playoffs last year.

3) Can we cut it with the "I think he was intimidated" crap? You have zero basis for this. You don't know a damn thing about the player. All you know is that he chose not to sign with your team, and you're cranky that you got 50 cents on the dollar for him in trade value. If you knew ANYTHING about his personality or character, you would realize how stupid this intimidation talk is. If this kid has any problem, it's his OVER-confidence, not the opposite. He loves college. His parents love watching him in Ann Arbor. His family is well off and wasn't desperate for his signing bonus. He wanted to play 1 more season in college. Why rip the kid for this?

I have a suggestion for you: Enjoy your Cup and let the Jack Johnson grudge go. I'm sorry he's not going to be with your team anymore. But that's not his fault. I'm sorry your GM made a dumb, emotional decision to trade him because he was pissy about a 19 year old not saying "how high" when he ordered Jack to jump. I'm sorry your team got only so-so return for Jack's rights. Also not his fault. Just move on.

 

[Panopticon]

he stepped up with the game winning goal in a shutdown win vs. Slovakia

GWG or not, he still played below par in that game.

 

[CapsWolverinesUSA]

GWG or not, he still played below par in that game.

By my count, he made 1 bad play the entire game until the game was out of reach, in a 6-1 victory in which he scored the GWG. That's "below par"? Is that the standard to which he is being held? Perfection?

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Quite a few are forgetting the rest of the tournament in which he pretty much stunk it up. Yes, he had a great game but he was expected along with Erik to dominate the tournament as a defensive pairing and it just never came together.

As a Hurricanes fan, I was a bit satiated by his performance in the tournament. It reminded me that we hadn't traded away a defenseman that was complete yet by any means. He turned the puck over like David Tanabe a few times and it gave me some pretty awful flashbacks.

I'm not saying he's not going to develop into a star player in the league, because every indication is that he will, but I certainly see a few question marks in his game after this tournament in terms of his mental approach to the game that were just whispers before.

He has a boat load of talent, that's for sure. I just wonder if he'll be able to get the mental aspects of the game together or if he'll go the way of a few other highly touted defensemen and develop into just an above average defenseman.

I'm sorry, but every time I read a post by you about Jack Johnson (or any other asset that's been traded by the Canes) it sounds like sour grapes.

 

[Panopticon]

By my count, he made 1 bad play the entire game until the game was out of reach, in a 6-1 victory in which he scored the GWG. That's "below par"? Is that the standard to which he is being held? Perfection?

By my count he made 3. Against a better team those mistakes would've cost him and his team.

Also, why not hold him to a high standard. He's the 3rd overall pick, who was supposed to be the 2nd overall pick. Highest pick from his draft in this tournament.

There are players picked 2-3 rounds after him that are being held to similar standards by certain fans.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

By my count he made 3. Against a better team those mistakes would've cost him and his team.

Also, why not hold him to a high standard. He's the 3rd overall pick, who was supposed to be the 2nd overall pick. Highest pick from his draft in this tournament.

There are players picked 2-3 rounds after him that are being held to similar standards by certain fans.

Three brainfarts when you're playing 35 minutes a game? I'll take that.

 

[CapsWolverinesUSA]

By my count he made 3. Against a better team those mistakes would've cost him and his team.

Also, why not hold him to a high standard. He's the 3rd overall pick, who was supposed to be the 2nd overall pick. Highest pick from his draft in this tournament.

There are players picked 2-3 rounds after him that are being held to similar standards by certain fans.

Who said not to hold him to a high standard? Not me. I just think it's pointless and foolish to expect perfection from any player, regardless of draft status. Being a high pick or the highest pick doesn't alter that. I disagree with your statement that he made 3 significant mistakes against Slovakia when the game was in doubt. I'd like to know which plays you're talking about. When the game was 4-0 and 5-1, he was over-aggressive on some pinches on the PP, but that was because he was looking to make plays and rack up more goals without being too concerned about the consequence of allowing an odd man rush. His style would clearly have been different had the game been in doubt.

 

[Vagrant]

Caniancforever, everything you have said in this thread has been wrong. I don't care if you're a "global moderator".

I don't care either. Why is that even relevant in a hockey discussion?

1) No, Jack has not had a bad tournament except for 1 game. He has had a really good tournament except for 1 game--the 1st Canada game. But when his team absolutely needed him, he stepped up with the game winning goal in a shutdown win vs. Slovakia, the game winning OT goal in a do or die against a tough Sweden squad, an solid performance against Finland in which he scored, and a dominant showing against Canada when it really counted. Ripping on him at this point, you sound bitter, biased and, frankly, dumb.

I'm not going to go back through the games and find every mistake that Johnson made, but he had quite a few bad games in this tournament for a player that was expected to look like a man among boys. People were saying he was ready to dominate the NHL right away like Phaneuf, and this tournament was proof that he's not quite there yet. I would also like to add that you sound in no way biased due to your "WolverinesUSA" end to your user name. That's the pinnacle of objectivity.

2) No, Jack would not have made Carolina's post-season roster last year. That is just a falsehood. If they suffered a bunch of injuries, he may have gotten a look for a game or two, but even that wasn't assured. They had 6 proven defensemen playing every night: Ward, Kaberle, Hedican, Comodore, Wesley and Wallin. For whom did you see Jack Johnson stealing a starting position from with no NHL experience? And do you actually think he was even the #7 defensemen had he signed? Over Oleg Tverdovsky who is a veteran with significant playoff experience? I sure don't. Fact is, Carolina wanted to sign him so they could secure him in their system and get him AHL seasoning this year. Everyone who isn't either ignorant or blatently re-writing history knows that. There is a good chance he could have made the big club at some point this season, but that's a very different thing than being a contributor for a cup contender in the playoffs last year.

Carolina dressed 7 defensemen on a regular basis throughout the regular season and at times in the playoffs. The level of play he exhibited would have dictated how much time he was given. Rob Blake did the same thing. Had he played a single minute of playoff hockey, he would have a ring right now. That's the rules. Carolina assured Johnson that he wouldn't play in the AHL. That's the main point. I've heard from pretty reliable sources that Johnson was assured a roster spot should he accept the contract and he still turned it down. You may be a very reliable source for Michigan related content, but I know a pretty fair share of what's going on with the Hurricanes.

3) Can we cut it with the "I think he was intimidated" crap? You have zero basis for this. You don't know a damn thing about the player. All you know is that he chose not to sign with your team, and you're cranky that you got 50 cents on the dollar for him in trade value. If you knew ANYTHING about his personality or character, you would realize how stupid this intimidation talk is. If this kid has any problem, it's his OVER-confidence, not the opposite. He loves college. His parents love watching him in Ann Arbor. His family is well off and wasn't desperate for his signing bonus. He wanted to play 1 more season in college. Why rip the kid for this?

No. I still think he was intimidated. This isn't all about sour grapes either. I'm happy. My favorite team won the stanley cup last year. It doesn't get much better than that if you're a fan. We did it without the help of Jack Johnson and provided a few things go our way in the 2nd half of the season, we can do it again. How well exactly do you know the player? Unless you're going to claim to be one of his close friends like many here claim to be, then i'm going to guess that you don't know him a whole lot better than any of us here know him unless there is something you're not telling us. I've seen his play. I've watched his tournaments. I followed the kid all over the place when opportunites presented themselves to see him play.

I think you need to tone down the defensive nature of your posting. We're just talking hockey here. I'm entitled to my opinion as much as you are. Just relax a bit.

 

[Sojourn]

If you are going to ***** and moan about the only assessing a two minute penalty on the letang highstick, you need to question only assessing a two minute penalty on whoever it was that elbowed Downie in the head.



Downie was injured, you can't argue he wasn't as it was why the whistle was blown when Canada had the puck. So if you are going to argue that the referee should have given Letang a 4 or 5 when the highstick wasnt as malicious(he was trying to avoid the goalie stick, and his stick hit johnson in the lips, where as whoever it was that hit Downie(Geoffrion?) got away witha 2 minute minor for elbowing him directly in the grill. Refs are allowed to use their discretion, and he did in both situations. It may not have made it to OT if Canada gets a 5 minute powerplay.

Both subjective calls, both blown, get over it.

Uh, it's very easy to argue that Downie wasn't injured. I can say he was trying to get a call. I can say that he got up immediately after the whistle was blown, and he came back on the ice soon after. There's a lot of ways you can argue this, and I'm inclined to believe he wasn't injured.

 

[Panopticon]

I'd like to know which plays you're talking about.

When the game was still 0-0 he gave Slovakia two
2-on-1s with his eager and reckless attacking. He was lucky Slovakia didn't score on those, the game could've been totally different.

Then there was that one bad pass that also led to a 2-on-1.

Also, his penalties in that game were less than smart.

All in all, he didn't impress me too much in the first two games I ever saw him play live (and I don't think I was the only one who thought so, I seem to remember other poster criticising him after that game as well). It's not like his goal was a beauty, either.

I'm not saying that he sucked. He just sucked when compared to my expectations for a high pick.

And I don't hold anyone to perfection (maybe Sidney Crosby with all his hype), but quality players make up for a few bad plays even in the same game (It's supposed to be like "OK, he screwed up there, but..." not "He screwed up there and..."). I'm not saying he's not "quality", just that it didn't show in that game.

Three brainfarts when you're playing 35 minutes a game? I'll take that.

I don't think he played that much, though. If he did, then it's more OK, but I seem to remember EJ and Chorney playing much more than JJ and Lawson.

 

[YogiCanucks]

Jack Johnson is really good. Its just after the Dowie/Johnson hit last year Canadian fans love to hate him. I do aswell.

Its sorta like how Bertuzzi was CONSTANTLY booed by the colorado fans (and in ever other area)