Jack Johnson leaves Michigan and is a KING!!!

Vagrant

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I think it is pretty clear that L.A won the trade, and that Johnson's signing only makes the deal worse. Sure, you can bring up the fact that Johnson reach his ceiling isn't a guarantee, however you could say that about anyone.

Alright, i'll trade you John Tavares for a kid that hasn't been born yet who may be better than Gretzky. I win the deal.
 

bleedgreen

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I think it is pretty clear that L.A won the trade, and that Johnson's signing only makes the deal worse. Sure, you can bring up the fact that Johnson reach his ceiling isn't a guarantee, however you could say that about anyone.

exactly, you can say it about anyone. it can be true about anyone. its true at this point that gleason is a better nhl defenseman - there really isnt much of an arguement after the way he played this year. jj will have to have one hell of a finish here to be better.
 

kingpest19

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I think it is pretty clear that L.A won the trade, and that Johnson's signing only makes the deal worse. Sure, you can bring up the fact that Johnson reach his ceiling isn't a guarantee, however you could say that about anyone.

Actually until JJ reaches his full potential Canes have gotten the better end of this deal. They got 2 roster players for a kid who wasnt even signed. Thats 2 players that have contributed to the Canes all season until the trade of Belanger. The Kings have gotten a few games out of Tverdovsky. Not enough to offset the loss of Gleason let alone Belanger. Unless Tverdovsky turns it around and JJ becomes a mutli time award winner its hard to say that the Kings won this deal.
 

Vagrant

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Actually until JJ reaches his full potential Canes have gotten the better end of this deal. They got 2 roster players for a kid who wasnt even signed. Thats 2 players that have contributed to the Canes all season until the trade of Belanger. The Kings have gotten a few games out of Tverdovsky. Not enough to offset the loss of Gleason let alone Belanger. Unless Tverdovsky turns it around and JJ becomes a mutli time award winner its hard to say that the Kings won this deal.

I wouldn't say he has to become a multiple time award winner, he just has to be a better player than Tim Gleason in the long run for LA to win the deal. Right now, it's not as much of a given as many are trying to make it out. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush apparently to the Carolina organization. It may get them burned, or it may make them look really good. It's yet to be determined. That's why the score on this trade is "N/A", until one side of the deal proves that it's greater than the other.
 

Towelie*

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Alright, i'll trade you John Tavares for a kid that hasn't been born yet who may be better than Gretzky. I win the deal.

You missed the point. My point was that it wasn't necessary to bring up the fact that Johnson may bust - any prospect has a chance of busting. I assume that most people know this....
 

The Viking Fury

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Well to connect a few dots:

With JJ and this new college Defenseman, I think its almost a given that they will re-sign Jamie heward as a mentor. He was great mentoring our (the caps) young guys the past season and a half. Many of our prospects acknowledged it. In fact I believe he even took it upon himself to call Mike Green over the summer with training tips and whatnot, completely unsolicited. Looks like the caps may be getting that 5th round pick
 

Live in the Now

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Well to connect a few dots:

With JJ and this new college Defenseman, I think its almost a given that they will re-sign Jamie heward as a mentor. He was great mentoring our (the caps) young guys the past season and a half. Many of our prospects acknowledged it. In fact I believe he even took it upon himself to call Mike Green over the summer with training tips and whatnot, completely unsolicited. Looks like the caps may be getting that 5th round pick
Good, I already like Heward. He's the perfect #6 defenseman.
 

SpaceGhost79

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and if you think JJ was at Michigan this long solely because of his "degree" pursuit, you are a naive one.
Of course not, but that doesn't mean education wasn't a priority, either...

According to his father, Johnson will return to Ann Arbor following the Kings' season and is enrolled in spring term classes at Michigan.

"He's only going to be gone for three weeks," Jack Johnson, Sr. said. "He's coming back. He's going to get a degree from Michigan. That's the No. 1 thing - he promised (Michigan coach Red Berenson) he will graduate."
 

haelwho

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Alright, i'll trade you John Tavares for a kid that hasn't been born yet who may be better than Gretzky. I win the deal.

What has Gleason done at Johnson's level that Johnson hasn't? The reason Johnson is so highly touted is because he's proven pretty much everything he can in college game.

The only stance I see you taking is that Johnson won't pan out. Face the facts: Johnson has proven everything he needs to prove at the college level. The only reason Johnson hasn't proven himself is simply because he hasn't had the chance.

So how does it make sense that the Kings have already won a deal where the yield for them has been nothing?

The yield has NOT been nothing. The yield is a young defenseman with the potential to be one of the best American defensemen in history and to be one of the stars of the Kings for countless years.

If you don't think the Kings have gotten anything from the deal, how about trading every prospect in your organization who hasn't played an NHL game for Tom Kostopoulos? According to your standards, Kostopoulos is worth so much more, because he's proven himself at the NHL level.

I'm not trying to say he holds no value, but how can someone win the trade when the only thing they picked up (Yes, only thing. Tverdovsky has negative value if anything) has not played 1 game for the Kings. He holds value, but he hasn't benefited the Kings on ice team one bit yet.

This is going to go around in circles.

It's obviously going to go around in circles because you're only considering the side that benefits your team. You're making lots of assumptions, saying, "what if Johnson isn't everything he's cracked up to be," but you're not considering that he could be as good as he's pegged to be and better.

For every time you say, "Johnson could bust," I could say, "Johnson could be the next great American hockey player and the face of USA hockey for the next 20 years" Both of which are assumptions, but both of which are possible.
 

Vagrant

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Would you rather have Jack Johnson or Tim Gleason right now?

In the heat of a playoff race at the moment combined with the way Tim Gleason has been playing, i'll take Gleason if the game is today. For potential, i'd take Jack Johnson.

With that said, the point is that Carolina has already recieved yield from the trade in the form of the games Belanger played for the franchise and the games Gleason has played for the franchise. That yield, the quality of it notwithstanding, is more than LA has recieved in terms of on ice yield. You can't claim a winner of a deal when the on ice yield favors the other team. That was my sole contention for people calling this a laugher already.
 

Vagrant

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The yield has NOT been nothing. The yield is a young defenseman with the potential to be one of the best American defensemen in history and to be one of the stars of the Kings for countless years.

The yield has been nothing. No way to argue that point. The Kings haven't won or lost a game this entire year based on the contribution as a result of this trade.
 

Riofan

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Would you rather have Jack Johnson or Tim Gleason right now?

That's the question of the day ladies and gentlemen. I for one like the prospect of a potential franchise player right out of college and the costly mistakes he will make. I say that even with albatross of a contract that Tverdovsky brings for another year.

Of course I'm biased. I'm a Kings fan.
 

The Viking Fury

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Carolina really crapped the bed on this, or He had no desire or intention to play in Carolina.
If that is the case, at least they found out soon enough and were able to get osmething for him before it became public which would probably cause the return to be even lower. Unless everyone read between the lines last season when he wouldn't sign for the playoffs
 

PeteWorrell

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Canes fans are just bitter the lost the trade.

Yes any prospect could bust but you get rewarded greatly if they attain their potential.Let's say the Canes had traded Staal because he held out and they wanted him to play right away i'm pretty sure they don't win the cup without him.

Johnson could easily turn out to be the King's #1 D and with the young guys they got win a cup in a few years while the Canes missed on having a franchise defenseman and maybe get on another run.
 

kingpest19

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Canes fans are just bitter the lost the trade.

Yes any prospect could bust but you get rewarded greatly if they attain their potential.Let's say the Canes had traded Staal because he held out and they wanted him to play right away i'm pretty sure they don't win the cup without him.

Johnson could easily turn out to be the King's #1 D and with the young guys they got win a cup in a few years.While the Canes missed on having a franchise defenseman and maybe get on another run.

Or he could end up nothing more than an average 2nd pair guy. Right now Carolina hasnt lost anything because of this trade.
 

haelwho

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Summary of thread: what if, what if, what if, what if, what if, what if, what if, what if, what if?
 

PeteWorrell

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Or he could end up nothing more than an average 2nd pair guy. Right now Carolina hasnt lost anything because of this trade.
We could go on all day about doing "ifs" but i think the GM miscalculated and expected the Canes to still be cup contenders and went for immediate help instead of getting rewarded long term but the team has underarchieved and is fighting for a playoff spot so the plan could backfire.
 

King'sPawn

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So whats the kings top 6 looking like next year? Does anyone think JJ will be full time in the NHL next season?

How about AHL playoffs this year? Is Manchester in the chase?

The only veteran defensemen the Kings have signed though next season are Blake and Visnovsky.

Heward, Weaver, Dallman, Miller, and Modry are all going to be UFAs. I'm 99.99999% certain Modry will NOT be back.

Young defensemen they have coming up that have at least played a couple NHL games are Harrold, Petiot and Piskula.

If I remember correctly, Lombardi said that, ideally, he has three age groups of players: 2 veterans, 2 players in their prime, and 2 young players. He mentioned Miller as another potential veteran, although the improved play of Heward may make him a candidate. The other defenseman in his prime is likely a trade or FA signing. So, if Lombardi's plan is actually met, the line-up will probably look something like this:

Visnovsky - UFA
young player - Blake
young player - Miller
Young player could be any of these: Johnson, Harrold, Petiot, Piskula
 

kingpest19

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We could go on all day about doing "ifs" but i think the GM miscalculated and expected the Canes to still be cup contenders and went for immediate help instead of getting rewarded long term but the team has underarchieved and is fighting for a playoff spot so the plan could backfire.

Fact is Canes didnt lose this deal. Johnson wouldnt have been in the lineup for them this year anyways. Gleason and Belanger stepped right into the lineup. Getting 2 players who can step right into the lineup for a prospect who may or may not reach potential is losing a trade now? The Canes GM did what he had to do. Het got return on a player who seemingly wasnt going to sign with his team and those 2 players helped. JJ is the one that has to live up to potential , not Gleason or Belanger.
 

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