Player Discussion Jack Eichel - Switching from #15 to #9

[AustonsNostrils]

We paid the bad organization tax.

To Jame's point Tampa at the time wasn't a top organization, Melrose followed by Tocchet.

If there is a negative to Botterill signing Eichel to the 10M 8 year deal last summer it's being exaggerated. Let's say we didn't sign him, he has a disappointing 65 pt season in a tumultuous disappointing season under a new GM/Coach regime. He'd still be the team's top PPG player and the face of the franchise so he's still going to get a big deal, 9M vs 10M probably, not a big deal. After another depressing season for the team and himself he very well might have decided to decline giving up any UFA years and that would have been bad for the organization - even if things deteriorate here with Eichel his trade value will be greater with him under contract for 8 years vs 5.

 

[explore]

Kane, for all his flaws... is also a driver of Eichel's ES improvement.... so while he may regain his PP production, he'll likely lose a chunk of that ES production

His pace is a massive disappointment right now... 10 million

You’ve got some serious anti Eichel bias going on.

Also he’s still on his ELC, so he isn’t making 10 million.

 

[1972]

Jack making 10 vs 8 million dollars a year? Who gives a f***. Right now 10 per is steep, but he’s already a 7 million dollar player and the cap is only going to increase as he gets better. Having him signed for another 8 years is what matters.

 

[Icicle]

RFA vs UFA

Oh because Vaneks deal had nothing to do with the above

But please, keep the smug

 

[Jim Bob]

Jack making 10 vs 8 million dollars a year? Who gives a ****. Right now 10 per is steep, but he’s already a 7 million dollar player and the cap is only going to increase as he gets better. Having him signed for another 8 years is what matters.

How do you define a $7M player vs an $8M player vs a $10M player?

Among 2018-19 cap hits, $10M is t-5th in the entire NHL.

Is Eichel one of the top 5 players in the league?

$8M is t-19th

$7M is t-36th

I can see Eichel being worth in the $7-8M range next season.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

Oh because Vaneks deal had nothing to do with the above

But please, keep the smug

You're going to keep pointing to things that don't compare whatsoever to the Eichel situation, huh?

Go away.

 

[1972]

How do you define a $7M player vs an $8M player vs a $10M player?

Among 2018-19 cap hits, $10M is t-5th in the entire NHL.

Is Eichel one of the top 5 players in the league?

$8M is t-19th

$7M is t-36th

I can see Eichel being worth in the $7-8M range next season.

Next season yes, 7-8 is probably what he’s worth. But he’s not signing an 8 year deal for 7-8 per when he’s already going to be worth that in year 1.

My hope was that Botterill could get him done for 8 years 72 million, that’s what I would have preferred. He was never signing at 8 per over 8 years. I’d much rather over pay slightly on a franchise player then play hardball over a million bucks a year.

 

[Jim Bob]

Next season yes, 7-8 is probably what he’s worth. But he’s not signing an 8 year deal for 7-8 per when he’s already going to be worth that in year 1.

My hope was that Botterill could get him done for 8 years 72 million, that’s what I would have preferred. He was never signing at 8 per over 8 years.

If he wouldn't sign a reason extension had the Sabres waited, he would have had three choices: sign is RFA QO, take a bridge deal, or sit....

 

[Jame]

Oh because Vaneks deal had nothing to do with the above

But please, keep the smug

Okie dokie

 

[1972]

If he wouldn't sign a reason extension had the Sabres waited, he would have had three choices: sign is RFA QO, take a bridge deal, or sit....

When’s the last time a young talent like Jack got signed to a bridge deal?

There were two options and they were sign Jack to a big contract when they did or sign Jack to a big contract this coming offseason.

 

[Jim Bob]

When’s the last time a young talent like Jack got signed to a bridge deal?

There were two options and they were sign Jack to a big contract when they did or sign Jack to a big contract this coming offseason.

Jack wasn't getting a $10M per year deal next summer if he was outside the top 50 in pts/gp this season.

 

[1972]

Jack wasn't getting a $10M per year deal next summer if he was outside the top 50 in pts/gp this season.

He’s not gonna be outside the top 50 after 82 games...were 30 games in and he was terrible for about 15 of them and is still on pace for 65 points basically all at even strength.

He will be top 20 by the end of the year.

 

[Jim Bob]

He’s not gonna be outside the top 50 after 82 games...were 30 games in and he was terrible for about 15 of them and is still on pace for 65 points basically all at even strength.

He will be top 20 by the end of the year.

I doubt he has that big of a second half, especially once Botts starts selling.

 

[Jame]

He’s not gonna be outside the top 50 after 82 games...were 30 games in and he was terrible for about 15 of them and is still on pace for 65 points basically all at even strength.

He will be top 20 by the end of the year.

Yea... it shouldn’t be long before he passes dustin Brown in points per game...

:kill me:

 

[SabresFan26]

Jack wasn't getting a $10M per year deal next summer if he was outside the top 50 in pts/gp this season.

You also realize that cap hit is almost irrelevant. Most agents work on percent of cap. He would've definitely got 10 million this coming summer if the leagues salary cap goes up to 80 million.

 

[Jim Bob]

You also realize that cap hit is almost irrelevant. Most agents work on percent of cap. He would've definitely got 10 million this coming summer if the leagues salary cap goes up to 80 million.

You really think that a center that is outside of the top 50 in the NHL in Pts/GP is worth 12.5% of the cap?

 

[Jame]

You also realize that cap hit is almost irrelevant. Most agents work on percent of cap. He would've definitely got 10 million this coming summer if the leagues salary cap goes up to 80 million.

What possible argument was there for Jack getting the same % of the cap as mvp/cup winning franchise players?

The reason people like @joshjull have to come up with silly arguments about paying for the future is because there is literally no justification for it.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

To Jame's point Tampa at the time wasn't a top organization, Melrose followed by Tocchet.

If there is a negative to Botterill signing Eichel to the 10M 8 year deal last summer it's being exaggerated. Let's say we didn't sign him, he has a disappointing 65 pt season in a tumultuous disappointing season under a new GM/Coach regime. He'd still be the team's top PPG player and the face of the franchise so he's still going to get a big deal, 9M vs 10M probably, not a big deal. After another depressing season for the team and himself he very well might have decided to decline giving up any UFA years and that would have been bad for the organization - even if things deteriorate here with Eichel his trade value will be greater with him under contract for 8 years vs 5.

That's the bad organization tax. You paid now so you don't have to deal with him using his leverage to leave if the team continues to suck.

 

[sabrebuild]

I predicted his exact contract. How is that wrong?

Didn’t see this till now, but jame covered it.

The reasons are clear for why there was no reason to give Eichel that deal a year early.

Paying him ten a year, before this season, was literally only a smart bet if he had come out and put up Mcdavid’s 2016-17 season this year. If that had happened you would have gotten a good deal. Pretty much any other outcome made that 10 a year deal premature proper payment or over payment.

This idea that you’re paying for potential, no shit. In all reality let’s say Eichel turns it up and finishes with 70 points this year and no missed games.

That would make Eichel, three years with a 224 game sample size, this player;

- .816 ppg, with zero ppg seasons.
-Objectively a below average defensive nhl center.
-tremendous physical skills.
-flashes of spectacular play.
- lack of consistency in all parts of his game.

Potential certainly is factored into every contract.... but production counts too.

 

[1972]

You really think that a center that is outside of the top 50 in the NHL in Pts/GP is worth 12.5% of the cap?

How convenient you use his 31 games sample size this year which includes arguably his worst stretch of hockey as a pro to help your arguement but disregard his 60+ games last year in which he was nearly a PPG centre. But keep beating that outside top 50 Pts/GP drum to fit your narritave...

 

[SabresFan26]

You really think that a center that is outside of the top 50 in the NHL in Pts/GP is worth 12.5% of the cap?

A 21 year old who will likely be in the top 30 by the season's end on one of the worst teams in the league? Ya, I do think he'd garner 12.5%, especially when he's only going to get significantly better as he matures and gains experience and in fact by the middle of the deal it will be a very good value deal similar to others who signed in the last 5 years before the cap raises. I expect with expansion, the cap to continue to go up as well. Look at the rates of the rest of the league. We finally have a franchise center and people try to nitpick a few minutiae details. Would people really risk not budging over 9 million dollars and having a franchise player demand a trade or refuse to re-sign. We now have one of the best players in the league locked up at a fair rate long term.

Let's not be all pissy and vinegary (if that's word) over Eichel, lets be upset with the awful contracts that Botterill inherited from Murray.

Matt Moulson signed for 5 million for another year after this season
Kyle Okposo signed at 6 million per for 5 more years after this season
Ryan O'Reilly signed at 7.5 million per for 5 more years after this season

We could add more too

Franson (3 M)
Meszaros (4.125 M)
Gionta (4.125 M)
Ennis (4.6 M) (Good that Botterill was able to move this contract)

 

[sabrebuild]

Next season yes, 7-8 is probably what he’s worth. But he’s not signing an 8 year deal for 7-8 per when he’s already going to be worth that in year 1.

My hope was that Botterill could get him done for 8 years 72 million, that’s what I would have preferred. He was never signing at 8 per over 8 years. I’d much rather over pay slightly on a franchise player then play hardball over a million bucks a year.

I’d have liked to play hardball over the idea that Eichel needed to show that he was focused on getting better, carrying a team and translating his tremendous physical skills into on ice production, before getting a mega deal.

I’m far more concerned with his mental approach and how he perceives his place in the league than I am about the cap hit.

In market terms the risk to the team was nil by not signing him last off season. The reward for signing him was minimal and the possibility of further entitlement and pressure was reasonable.

 

[Beerz]

Can't we wait to complain about Jack's 10 million dollar contract when he's actually making 10 million dollars.

 

[1972]

Since everyone loves small sample sizes on this board. Sam Reinhart is on pace for 6 more points then Jack Eichel currently has, 29 points total. One gets criticized non stop, the other is a golden child.

 

[sabrebuild]

Since everyone loves small sample sizes on this board. Sam Reinhart is on pace for 6 more points then Jack Eichel currently has, 29 points total. One gets criticized non stop, the other is a golden child.

What bubble do you live in that Reinhart doesn’t get criticized on this board.hahahaha

Edit: bringing up Reinhart is the epitome of what aboutism.