Jaccob Slavin is the best young defenseman in the league

[whitstifier]

Not sure Id use skating as an arguement against Provorov, hes a great skater. Defensively its Slavin as it sits now though. there is usually some weird arguement against players that play on a team with other good players so Slavin having other good D to play with automatically makes him worse then someone with no good players to play with

Context is important. But, I'd agree that it's difficult to argue that one is better than the other based on common linemates. Still, what Provorov is doing in his 19/20 yo rookie season with MacDonald as his frequent D partner is incredible. He's already a 1D

 

[stevo61]

Context is important. But, I'd agree that it's difficult to argue that one is better than the other based on common linemates. Still, what Provorov is doing in his 19/20 yo rookie season with MacDonald as his frequent D partner is incredible. He's already a 1D

definitely is incredible. I think Slavin is better now but if I had my choice of the 2 moving forward I'd take my chances with Provorov

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Context is important. But, I'd agree that it's difficult to argue that one is better than the other based on common linemates. Still, what Provorov is doing in his 19/20 yo rookie season with MacDonald as his frequent D partner is incredible. He's already a 1D

Which is true, but the OP isn't talking potential, the OP is talking right now. Provorov is not a better defensive player than Slavin right now and you'd be hard pressed to find a single stat or convincing argument that would back that assertion up. A year from now or 2, or 3, Provorov may be better defensively, but he's not right now (and I think Provorov is fantastic). And offensively, Slavin's 5v5 P/60, his CF%, and PP P/60 are better than Provorov's as well.

Yeah, I get that they are on different teams with different partners, but it's hard to find any data that backs up the assertion that Provorov is better right now. Like I said though, that's not to say that down the road Provorov won't be better.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

definitely is incredible. I think Slavin is better now but if I had my choice of the 2 moving forward I'd take my chances with Provorov

And that is a very fair assessment. I think offensively, Provorov has more upside than Slavin. Slavin isn't "bad" offensively, but just watching the two, it comes more natural to Provorov. Wouldn't surprise me to see Provorov being a 50+ point defensemen regularly. On the defensive side though, things come so naturally to Slavin that he seems like a robot almost.

 

[Absolut]

Hahahahaha.

Oh wait you were serious? Ok, go ahead and make your argument for Provorov being a better defensive player than Slavin. I could use a good laugh. Slavin blows Provorov out of the water defensively. Offensively it's close, slight edge to Slavin because of his skating and composure.

Are you just looking at stats and nothing else? You definitely couldn't say this based on their actual performance. Slavin is more seasoned, while Provorov is prone to rookie mistakes. But Slavin is about to turn 23, while Provorov just turned 20. Slavin should be more seasoned, no? Provorov's defensive IQ is out of this world; he'll get better with age. "Offensive edge based on skating" is a strange comment because Provorov is an amazing skater. And how do you measure composure? Slavin is a very composed kid. Provorov is composed enough to play 27 min against Crosby. I would give an offensive edge to Slavin *right now* because he's more confident with the puck. Provorov defers to older players and doesn't shoot enough. But that seems to be changing as well. He's improving offensively every game. Provorov also needs to work on receiving passes, sometimes he bobbles the puck. But the kid is pure magic. I don't care to argue about who's better. Time will tell. But think about it in terms of value. Who do you think has a higher trade value? That will help to sort things out.

 

[whitstifier]

On the defensive side though, things come so naturally to Slavin that he seems like a robot almost.

Sounds like Provorov. I'm not really sure how a player could get any better defensively

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I also don't follow this. Are you just looking at stats and nothing else? You definitely couldn't say this based on their actual performance. Slavin is more seasoned, while Provorov is prone to rookie mistakes. But Slavin is about to turn 23, while Provorov just turned 20. Slavin should be more seasoned, no?

It's not that hard to follow. What you say is true, but the poster he was responding to said that Provorov (right now) is better defensively than Slavin. Not where they will be a year from now, or when Provorov is 23, but right now. That's what he was laughing at as there is nothing that can substantiate that claim.

I don't care to argue about who's better. Time will tell. But think about it in terms of value. Who do you think has a higher trade value? That will help to sort things out.

That's irrelevant in this discussion though. The OP is talking about right now, not 3 years down the road. As a Canes fan, I can readily admit that Provorov has the potential and tools to be better than Slavin down the road. Same way I think Hanifin has the skills and tools to be better than Slavin down the road, but he isn't better right now.

 

[stevo61]

And that is a very fair assessment. I think offensively, Provorov has more upside than Slavin. Slavin isn't "bad" offensively, but just watching the two, it comes more natural to Provorov. Wouldn't surprise me to see Provorov being a 50+ point defensemen regularly. On the defensive side though, things come so naturally to Slavin that he seems like a robot almost.

this is a nice conversation i dont see here on hf very often

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Sounds like Provorov. I'm not really sure how a player could get any better defensively

He can gain experience and cut down on mistakes. He's a 20 year old rookie that is having a great rookie season, but he can get better defensively. I get that linemates aren't the same, but none of his defensive numbers are as good as Slavin's. SA/60, GA/60, CF%, +/-, GVA, TKA, numbers with/without teammates, etc.. I've watched them both enough to know they are both very good, but defensively, Slavin is better. Offensively, I'd give the edge to Provorov though, even though Slavin's numbers are slightly better. Provorov is more dynamic and has better offensive instincts.

It makes sense though, Slavin is in his 2nd NHL season and is almost 3 year older. He should be more refined defensively at this point.

 

[Absolut]

It's not that hard to follow. What you say is true, but the poster he was responding to said that Provorov (right now) is better defensively than Slavin. Not where they will be a year from now, or when Provorov is 23, but right now. That's what he was laughing at as there is nothing that can substantiate that claim.

I do not see a gap between Provorov and Slavin defensively. I have seen both play live several times. They are very evenly matched. Statistically Slavin looks a lot better. I would be thrilled to have either on my team. But if I had to choose one, Provorov would be my choice, 10 times out of 10. I love Werenski too, he's got higher offensive ceiling then Provorov and a solid D game.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

this is a nice conversation i dont see here on hf very often

Yeah, I like the back and forth as long as it's a reasonable discussion even if two posters disagree, although in this case, I don't think there's that much disagreement, are at most, we are splitting hairs.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I do not see a gap between Provorov and Slavin defensively. I have seen both play live several times. They are very evenly matched. Statistically Slavin looks a lot better. I would be thrilled to have either on my team. But if I had to choose one, Provorov would be my choice, 10 times out of 10. I love Werenski too, he's got higher offensive ceiling then Provorov and a solid D game.

You can count the mistakes Slavin has made this year on one hand. Provorov isn't at that level - I would put Slavin's defensive game ahead of any other defenseman in the league - and the numbers wouldn't disagree.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I do not see a gap between Provorov and Slavin defensively. I have seen both play live several times. They are very evenly matched.

I've seen them both several times as well and would disagree, but that's fine.

 

[Bobby Orr's Knees]

He can gain experience and cut down on mistakes. He's a 20 year old rookie that is having a great rookie season, but he can get better defensively. I get that linemates aren't the same, but none of his defensive numbers are as good as Slavin's. SA/60, GA/60, CF%, +/-, GVA, TKA, numbers with/without teammates, etc.. I've watched them both enough to know they are both very good, but defensively, Slavin is better. Offensively, I'd give the edge to Provorov though, even though Slavin's numbers are slightly better. Provorov is more dynamic and has better offensive instincts.

It makes sense though, Slavin is in his 2nd NHL season and is almost 3 year older. He should be more refined defensively at this point.

Slavin is more defensively refined. It's not just the age/experience issue. He's very smooth, calm, and confident. Provorov occasionally makes a dumb mistake. Rarely but it happens. Provorov's issue is not so much his own mistakes though. 99% of the time he covers his man perfectly. Interrupts the play, muscles the puck away, blocks a shot, etc. He's got a better save percentage then our goalies. His problem is the other four guys on the ice. It's just a comedy of errors, all the time. There was one time recently, Provorov is covering his guy beautifully. Giroux for whatever reason decides to skate towards the same guy, leaving a shooting lane completely open. This happens all the time. Literally, all the time. And don't get me started on Andrew MacDonald. The guy wouldn't make it in the KHL. Provorov's stats would be unrecognizable with a better defensive partner. But I don't think any Flyers fan cares about his stats at all. We are just happy to have him.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

But I don't think any Flyers fan cares about his stats at all. We are just happy to have him.

Yep, and I would be too.

 

[Roboturner913]

I don't think people have seen Slavin play and understand....this dude is practically a one-man PK unit all by himself. He calmly flips backhands deep out of his own end that almost hit the scoreboard and you'd swear he had a curve on the backhand side of his stick. He gets back against the fastest players in the league and breaks up odd-man rushes with his stick and never takes a penalty. He never gets rattled. He makes a legit mistake maybe once a month. I've said it before, the only comparison I can make in terms of how he plays defense in terms of combining his mental approach with incredible speed and stickwork is Nicklas Lidstrom. People pooh-poohing him and saying he isn't that great either just aren't paying attention or can't stand somebody else getting chatted up instead of their favorite player on their favorite team.

 

[Grey Poupon*]

This is getting ridiculous. Never mind Parayko, Seth Jones is easily better than whoever this is. This thread is a bit premature. Need sustained superior performance before posters on HF can reach this consensus.

 

[Ducks Nation*]

I'd take Jones over him. Lindholm probably too. Although Lindholm has been underwhelming this year offensively, points wise.

Lindholm has played with basically a cast on his wrist this whole season.

 

[Roboturner913]

This is getting ridiculous. Never mind Parayko, Seth Jones is easily better than whoever this is. This thread is a bit premature. Need sustained superior performance before posters on HF can reach this consensus.

No, you're getting ridiculous. People all around the league have been raving about this dude since practically the first time he stepped on NHL ice. Just because you're [MOD] doesn't mean that everybody else is wrong. You're being myopic.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

This is getting ridiculous. Never mind Parayko, Seth Jones is easily better than whoever this is.

As a poster said earlier, maybe it was valid last year not knowing who Slavin is. But not knowing who he is this year shouldn't be a source of pride.

This thread is a bit premature. Need sustained superior performance before posters on HF can reach this consensus.

You bring up Parayko, who has the same level of NHL experience as Slavin (but Parayko has been more sheltered compared to Slavin), and Jones who is only in his 2nd year of having 30+ points and are then talking about needing sustained superior performance?

I have no problem if you, or others think Jones (I'd actually agree here), Parayko, or others are better than Slavin. Just be informed while you are making the claims and try to back it up with pertinent information.

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

Lindholm has played with basically a cast on his wrist this whole season.

Ah, had no idea. That explains a lot.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

This is getting ridiculous. Never mind Parayko, Seth Jones is easily better than whoever this is. This thread is a bit premature. Need sustained superior performance before posters on HF can reach this consensus.

His name is in the title of the thread.

Help me understand your purpose here. You clicked into a thread about a player you've never heard of or watched (clearly) to argue that he's not any good? You are presented mounds of evidence and testimonials from fans that actually watch him play, yet you stick to your uninformed opinion about a player you've never heard of? Is it because he's not an Oiler? Or because you can't pronounce his name? Or do you have an ulterior motive?

[MOD]

 

[NYR713]

Slavin is a beast. I don't think you can declare him "THE" best but part of a great rising group of young D-men.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

https://www.nhl.com/player/jaccob-slavin-8476958


https://www.nhl.com/player/colton-parayko-8476892

That's more like it!! Awesome post! That is the best, well-reasoned, and most intelligent post i've see in this thread.

Parayko is objectively and factually, FAR (lightyears) and away the BEST young defenseman in the NHL at this moment. It's so silly to suggest anyone else, tbh.

Let's look at this objectively and factually then. First, let's look how they are used. Slavin plays as a 1st pairing defensemen (TOI) and goes against the toughest competition on his team and gets the least offensive zone starts on his team. Parayko plays as a 2nd pairing defenseman (TOI) and is 3rd on his team in terms of level of competition and offensive zone starts.

5v5 P/60: Slavin 1.06; Parayko 1.00
PP P/60: Slavin: 4.17; Parayko 5.04
GA/60: Slavin 1.92; Parayko 2.15
GF%: Slavin 58.3%; Parayko 52.3%
GF%RELTM: Slavin +17.3; Parayko: +1.5
SA/60: Slavin 25.71; Parayko: 27.05
SF%: Slavin 54.1%; Parayko: 50.9%
SF%RELTM: Slavin +4.2; Parayko: +1.2
CF%: Slavin 53.2; Parayko: 51.1
Blocks: Slavin 143; Parayko: 103
TKA: Slavin 73; Parayko: 34
GVA: Slavin 45; Parayko: 34
Hits: Slavin 24; Parayko: 71
+/-: Slavin +17 (1st on team that is -137); Parayko +3 (3rd best D on team that is -42).

ES TOI/GP: Slavin 19:11 (1st); Parayko 17:09 (3rd on team)
SH TOI/GP: Slavin 3:07 (1st); Parayko 2:11 (3rd)
PP TOI/GP: Slavin 1:02; Parayko: 1:42

So other than being a slightly better scorer on the PP, having a few less GVA, and providing more hits, how exactly is Parayko objectively and factually FAR (lightyears) better? I have no problem if someone thinks he's currently a better player than Slavin, as nobody gets to see all of these guys enough (including me), but it's an opinion and there is nothing factual about it.

I agree with the one poster that said Slavin is in a group with a bunch of good young defensemen, but I wouldn't say he is THE best.

 

[TopShelfWaterBottle]

Ide rather have hampus lindholm hands down