it would be best if no one supported the WHA tourney

[Hockeyfan02]

If you were simply a casual fan with no real interest in when and in what form the NHL comes back, you would probably choose number three.

Or if you're fed up with both sides and dont feel like picking sides between two ignorant sides that cant figure out how to divide up a 2 billion dollar industry (which will shrink) to make everyone happy.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

... not sure how standing up for your princibles makes you a baby. Hockey is a game, life is not. When you stand up for your princibles, whether those princibles are wrong or not, it makes you a person of integrity (outside of certain things like murder, we're talking philosophy here).

The Cup is a symbol. Take away what it symbolizes and all you are left with is a big silver chalice.

what principles are the players standing up for? The problem I got with them (sorry, Goodnow) doesn't want to recognize the fact that the league is in big trouble. How come evey other league is successful with a cap and the only ones that don't know this is the PA?

You're right, the Cup is a symbol. A symbol of heart and determination. No matter who plays for it.

 

[reckoning]

nothing like watching the Hamilton Whatever's playing the Houston Whocare's for a trophy that has no meaning

but hey, as long as the "best players" make their multimillions in a no-cap league, it's all good!

bring on the Memorial Cup

A game between Carolina and Washington would be soooooo much more exciting.

 

[Tawnos]

what principles are the players standing up for? The problem I got with them (sorry, Goodnow) doesn't want to recognize the fact that the league is in big trouble. How come evey other league is successful with a cap and the only ones that don't know this is the PA?

You're right, the Cup is a symbol. A symbol of heart and determination. No matter who plays for it.

It's a symbol of excellence, as well as heart and determination. It doesn't stay the same symbol if anyone of those three things are removed from it.

And the NBA is NOT successful. They have major issues of their own coming since the owners claim to be losing money hand and foot. The only thing that makes the NFL's cap successful is the level of revenue sharing involved. Without that, teams would have a hard time competing. Is the NHL talking about that kind of revenue sharing? Not so far.

The NHL's problems come far more from it's terrible marketing than it's player salaries. I think it's more of a situation of the league revenues being unable to keep up with the natural salary escalation than it is with the salaries getting out of hand. Sounds like parsing words, but the source is completely different.

The players obviously do recognize the league is in trouble. The best deal for the players is a status quo, free market system. By offering anything else, it's an admission the league is in trouble. The only difference the players and the league have are how to fix it, not whether or not it needs to be fixed.

 

[Tawnos]

admit they were over paid by a whooping 24% then say they want to continue the system that saw them get to 24% over paid.

If I were an owner, I'd want them to pay me back....

the owners arnt even saying that, they just want a system where they can make money and market their teams.

The players are fools not to offer them that... then again, a greedy person is always a fool.

Just ask con man goodenow.

Enough said.

What luxury tax in the last system? What team initiated arbitration? The system the players offered isn't remotely similar to the old system. Pay attention.

I'm not sure where you've been, but this is no longer about the players best case scenario, this is about the employers (owners) taking back control of their companies from their employees (players). As owners, that is their right. It is time for the inmates to stop running the assylum. If they don't like it, let them stay in Europe, taking jobs from other players and making less money.

The owners are perfectly capable of "taking back control" if that's what you wish to call it, without a salary cap. The fact is that they always were in control, but now they have to force themselves to realize it at the expense of the players.

 

[Timmy]

It's a symbol of excellence, as well as heart and determination. It doesn't stay the same symbol if anyone of those three things are removed from it.

And the NBA is NOT successful. They have major issues of their own coming since the owners claim to be losing money hand and foot. The only thing that makes the NFL's cap successful is the level of revenue sharing involved. Without that, teams would have a hard time competing. Is the NHL talking about that kind of revenue sharing? Not so far.

The NHL's problems come far more from it's terrible marketing than it's player salaries. I think it's more of a situation of the league revenues being unable to keep up with the natural salary escalation than it is with the salaries getting out of hand. Sounds like parsing words, but the source is completely different.

The players obviously do recognize the league is in trouble. The best deal for the players is a status quo, free market system. By offering anything else, it's an admission the league is in trouble. The only difference the players and the league have are how to fix it, not whether or not it needs to be fixed.

I certainly hope none of my employees ever read that! I'd have to shut down, despite the fact that my revenues do increase at a nice rate every year, because their rate increase would send me back to a one-man operation without even a receptionist.

If the rate of salary increases is natural, then your Dodge Neon is going to cost $100,000 in about five years, and forget about medical insurance.

Now, if you wanted to call the increases supernatural........

 

[Tawnos]

They're natural only because of the way the CBA was setup with the natural inflators in qualifying offers and arbitration. Sakic and Fedorov contracts exacerbated the problem, but the natrual inflation was there.

The only natural salary inflation in non-CBA, non-individual contract marketplaces is inflation itslef.

 

[mackdogs*]

Just curious who your supporters of this WHA tournament will be cheering for. I hear they are picking teams the way I used to in grade 1 - captains pick who they want until some nerd no one wants is left over. Brilliant. Will you cheer for the team with the most players from your favorite NHL team? Or maybe against a team because of some players on that team?

Why should we give a **** who wins this tournament? We have no alliance to any team. Bring on the scabs, I'll pay good money to watch them. At least I'll have a reason to cheer.

 

[Timmy]

What luxury tax in the last system? What team initiated arbitration? The system the players offered isn't remotely similar to the old system. Pay attention.



The owners are perfectly capable of "taking back control" if that's what you wish to call it, without a salary cap. The fact is that they always were in control, but now they have to force themselves to realize it at the expense of the players.

Like Edmonton?

Actually, I think that a really good system would be where four or five teams have a shot at the cup at the beginning of the year, and the rest of the teams serve as farm teams, with one or two declaring bankruptcy starting about seven years from now.

Of course, a team could make it all the way to the finals by riding a hot goalie, choking any offense, and squeaking out 1-0 wins playing a system that completely shuts down any kind of offense or scoring chances.

That's my vision of a new, improved, NHL.

Exciting? Hardly. I mean, I wouldn't go to games anymore. But I'll be happy knowing the players I'm watching on TV aren't being exploited by the heartless, evil owners like they were up until the eighties.

:lol

 

[Timmy]

They're natural only because of the way the CBA was setup with the natural inflators in qualifying offers and arbitration. Sakic and Fedorov contracts exacerbated the problem, but the natrual inflation was there.

The only natural salary inflation in non-CBA, non-individual contract marketplaces is inflation itslef.

Yes, and the owners would like to get rid of these "natural" inflators so they don't go out of business because player's salaries increase at a greater rate than revenues.

 

[AM]

got get him

Yes, and the owners would like to get rid of these "natural" inflators so they don't go out of business because player's salaries increase at the same rate as revenues.

Timmy!

I dont envy you.

 

[MmmBacon]

All that refusing to support the WHA will do is convince Bettman that the poor product iced by the NHL is the greatest thing in the world.

If the WHA puts out a good product, people should support it. If their product is poor, stay away.

The NHL could use a little competition. It might make them take their fans more seriously. But it's not worth buying crap just to deliver a wakeup call.

Excellent post.

If the labor dispute was the only issue here, boycotting the WHA might make sense. The fact is, the NHL could use some competition to motivate it to improve the on-ice product. If the WHA is an entertaining option, I hope they succeed and the NHL takes some notes.

 

[Tawnos]

Yes, and the owners would like to get rid of these "natural" inflators so they don't go out of business because player's salaries increase at a greater rate than revenues.

Agreed on that. But there's gotta be a compromise, you can't have one side getting all the benefits. Reduce q-offers to 80% and have mirror arbitration. Both of those get rid of the inflation without taking advantage of the players.

 

[me2]

If the owners really cared about the fans, the players would've been traded at fair market value long before some of the lengthier holdouts ended. Do you really think that the Sharks couldn't get a good return for Brad Stuart?

That is a terrible idea.

First, Stuart gets rewarded with a overpaid contract as a reward for holding out. This just encourages more holdouts from Stuart and from other players watching the success Stuart has.

Second, the RFA market just got even more screwed because one more big fat overpriced contract got added. Arbitritation values just went up across the entire NHL. The next guy to hold out will probably want even more money.

The cutoff on Sept 15 is good idea. It forces the teams to pay up or lose the player for a year. It forces the player to consider whether its better to take $XYZ dollars or $0 for the year. There will be a heck of a lot less holdouts from players and GMs will need to be more prepared to budge.

 

[Tawnos]

Interesting article:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/columns/story?id=2018949

 

[Carl Spackler]

Interesting article:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/columns/story?id=2018949

"According to the WHA's Web site, 67 NHL players will play in the tournament, including Tony Amonte, Keith Primeau, Scott Gomez, Jose Theodore, Sean Burke, Derian Hatcher, Dany Heatley, Jarome Iginla and Nicklas Lidstrom, although Brisson cautioned that some may have only expressed interest and are waiting final details before committing."

Nik Lidstrom????? The same one that couldn't get in shape over seven weeks to play for his country in the World championships??? I guess that shows where Nik's heart really is (Sundin's as well) and perhaps also goes to show why Sweden has been so abysmal in international competitions as of late....

 

[Bicycle Repairman]

Interesting article:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/columns/story?id=2018949

Quite interesting, sounds like there's some real money behind this, although I remain skeptical that a European Division would work. St. Petersburg (Russia) Fighting Saints anyone?

 

[me2]

Quite interesting, sounds like there's some real money behind this, although I remain skeptical that a European Division would work. St. Petersburg (Russia) Fighting Saints anyone?

Start new league.
Selling 10 franchises for $7m each.
Put $50m in swiss bank account.
Run league for 12-24 months.
Wait for league to fold.
Retire to Carribean island with $50m.

Wish I'd thought of it.

 

[eye]

Quite interesting, sounds like there's some real money behind this, although I remain skeptical that a European Division would work. St. Petersburg (Russia) Fighting Saints anyone?

I guess nothing suprises me anymore. It's been speculated for years that the Russian Mafia own most if not all top teams in Russia. Players being payed with blood money. Fantastic!

 

[ScottyBowman]

I guess nothing suprises me anymore. It's been speculated for years that the Russian Mafia own most if not all top teams in Russia. Players being payed with blood money. Fantastic!

The Russian mafia runs all of Russia from what I've heard so its not like you have a choice.

 

[Filiatron]

Just curious who your supporters of this WHA tournament will be cheering for. I hear they are picking teams the way I used to in grade 1 - captains pick who they want until some nerd no one wants is left over. Brilliant. Will you cheer for the team with the most players from your favorite NHL team? Or maybe against a team because of some players on that team?

Why should we give a **** who wins this tournament? We have no alliance to any team. Bring on the scabs, I'll pay good money to watch them. At least I'll have a reason to cheer.

I was wondering the the same thing. Where will the winning team hold their parade?

 

[Tawnos]

It'll be much like the NHL playoffs for me in the last 7 seasons. I'm a Rangers fan, do you think I really care who wins when they aren't in it? (As long as it isn't the Devils, Islanders or Flyers that is)

I still watch though, because I love watching hockey.