it would be best if no one supported the WHA tourney

[Chili]

Memorial Cup - May 21st to May 29th,2005

WHA tournament - May 20th to June 2nd,2005

I'll be following the same one I did last year (and the year before...).

 

[SENSible1*]

Not a dime for the WHA.

Full support for replacement hockey.

This scenario provides the best chance for seing NHLPA members back on the ice in NHL uniforms playing under a CBA that will provide for the long-term health and stability for the league.

Fans will be given a chance to choose the winner in this dispute. Vote with your wallets.

 

[Hoss]

If I was a unbiased, perfect person i wouldn't support either side. But the players are disgusting and repulsive and supporting replacement players is the best way to fix the game.

Wow. This should go in the dumbest quotes section of the board.

 

[Munchausen]

I'm very skeptical about the kind of product we'll see in this tournament. I've seen the "Caravane McDo" hockey tour (NHLers tour in Quebec), I've seen also the world stars tour (or whatever pretentious name it had) against Europe, and everybody here has seen an all-star game. What do they have in common? They're all crappy uninspired soft & loose garage league type of hockey without contact or intensity. A couple of guys having a good time together, playing wide open hockey where you'd think defense, intensity and physical play aren't part of the game.

If this WHA tourney is anything similar, you can bet your ass it will be a disaster and nobody is going to go see a few millionaires have a good time and take it easy. It takes the players NHL conditions to play at an NHL level. If they all unite to play a couple of games, all they're likely going to do is sing kumbaya and joke around while skating circles on the ice. Sorry but I'm not wasting my time on that.

If they come out with a vengence and play like they would in the NHL, they stand a chance (tourney only, the league's an other debate), but I'll have to see it to beleive it.

 

[Hawker14]

i'm all for the wha and hope it succeeds.

i feel kicked in the teeth by both the nhl and the nhlpa, so if another league has a quality product i'll definitely support it and give ita chance.

i don't care anymore how the nhl owners/players divide their billions.

 

[AM]

Scab hockey all the way....

It is also a way to show that you don't mind watching a game full of crappy talent. No thanks, I don't want to misrepresent what I want. What I want is to see the best players in the world play the sport I love. I want to see my favorite team take part of that. I saw it last season, and I didn't this year.

I always said I didn't want a salary cap or luxury tax at the sake of an entire season, and I still stand by it. Frankly, I don't care either way anymore, now that the season is long dead. I'd like to see something done in time for their to be a draft, and I don't care what it is.

But this attitude of the NHL as saints and the players sinners is pretty ridiculous. It is clear the NHL wasn't willing to do what was needed to get a deal done. They are set on winning every major point they've had since day one. They were never willing to get some of what they wanted now and build on that with the next CBA.

I still don't see the NHL as having any major problem with fair competition. There is such a thing as having too much even competition from season to season, where a team can be built in one or two season through free agency. The NFL comes close to approaching this, but as is I don't mind their system.

I do agree there are problems economically, though who knows how much of that a cap would fix. You'd think the NHL would support some form of revenue sharing to cure economic problems within individual teams.

People don't not watch hockey because they don't think the teams have a fair shot at being competitive. They don't watch hockey because they don't like it. Rule changes won't fix this (check AHL goal stats this season compared to last). Neither will a cap. Grassroots efforts are the only way to turn kids into hockey fans, who will go out and bear hockey-fan children.

Either that or the NHL could have ads with the Black-eyed Peas singing a dumb song about the NHL playoffs.

Thats right, I support the best hockey organizations.

These organizations nurture the best talent year after year and so in the end I can watch the best hockey played.

In addition, these organizations shouldn't be based on who has the biggest wallet. To wit, they can develope their players, pay them fairly and get to the point where they can field a team that is an image of their capability as hockey developers.

 

[AM]

The only principal...

I actually think it would be best if the players came out on top in the labor dispute because I really don't think it's the players responsibility to give anything up to correct the owners' mistakes. That's called a matter of princible.

So if the WHA is successful and it causes the owners to realize they don't have a monopoly on high end hockey in North America and can't do whatever they want... they'll cave and the players will be better off for it. I could not care less about the ownership (as a Ranger fan with Cablevision, and honestly I think any Blackhawks or Bruins fan should agree with me). I care about the players who make the game what it is.

the palyers have been running with for the last 10 years?

Get as much as you can, while you can.

There are some noteable exceptions... but really, the exceptions make the rule.

 

[RealFalconsSupporter]

This season ticket holder won't be spending a $0.01 on replacement hockey.

As a huge fan of the AHL, IMO you should keep an open mind and you might be pleasantly suprised at the quality of hockey and the entertainment that AHL caliber players can provide. You don't need Tom Cruise, Clint Eastwood and Denzil Washington to make an Oscar winning film or to get patrons to pay to watch them and the same holds true in hockey.

I actually prefer watching the AHL than what we have been exposed to in the NHL the past few years. I don't think you can compare replacement players in the NFL to the NHL since the NFL really don't have an affiliated farm system to draw from. Many have argued for years that half the AHL players are as good as the bottom half of the NHL players and if rules are implemented to open up the game there are many slightly under-sized AHL players that could actually improve the quality of the NHL product.

 

[Hockeyfan02]

I won't support either the WHA or the replacement players. Why should I support either side after all the crap they've put the fans through the last 7-8 months.

 

[Tawnos]

the palyers have been running with for the last 10 years?

Get as much as you can, while you can.

There are some noteable exceptions... but really, the exceptions make the rule.

I wasn't talking about the last ten years. I was talking about this lockout. Big difference.

And the players got as much as they could while they could because it was given to them. Joe Sakic didn't offer himself $15million frontloaded.

 

[labatt50]

"And the players got as much as they could while they could because it was given to them."

...and if they didn't, they would hold out...the mess is caused by both sides.

 

[Tawnos]

Yes, because owners always have to cave on hold-outs... in the end, the money's in the owners hands and they failed at the responsibility.

 

[Timmy]

Yes, because owners always have to cave on hold-outs... in the end, the money's in the owners hands and they failed at the responsibility.

Then so did the fans who demanded the best product from their favourite teams, and the media, which demanded the same.

It is my unsupported belief that the holdouts, etc of players soured the owners to the players to the point where they actually became bitter, and that is a driver in these "negotiations."

Billionaires being told by some snot-nose 23 year old and his agent to go stuff themselves doesn't sit too well, and their determined not to hand that power back over to them again.

They want to be able to say, "Go ahead and hold out. Once we have some room under our cap, you can come back from Europe, Alexi."

 

[labatt50]

Yes, because owners always have to cave on hold-outs... in the end, the money's in the owners hands and they failed at the responsibility.

The owners do cave on hold outs, their mistake...they shouldn't have and let the greedy players sit out until they get a reality check. There are too many marginal players making way too much money, let alone some of the players that think they are "stars".

 

[labatt50]

Then so did the fans who demanded the best product from their favourite teams, and the media, which demanded the same.

It is my unsupported belief that the holdouts, etc of players soured the owners to the players to the point where they actually became bitter, and that is a driver in these "negotiations."

Billionaires being told by some snot-nose 23 year old and his agent to go stuff themselves doesn't sit too well, and their determined not to hand that power back over to them again.

They want to be able to say, "Go ahead and hold out. Once we have some room under our cap, you can come back from Europe, Alexi."

Well said

 

[John Flyers Fan]

As a huge fan of the AHL, IMO you should keep an open mind and you might be pleasantly suprised at the quality of hockey and the entertainment that AHL caliber players can provide. You don't need Tom Cruise, Clint Eastwood and Denzil Washington to make an Oscar winning film or to get patrons to pay to watch them and the same holds true in hockey.

I actually prefer watching the AHL than what we have been exposed to in the NHL the past few years. I don't think you can compare replacement players in the NFL to the NHL since the NFL really don't have an affiliated farm system to draw from. Many have argued for years that half the AHL players are as good as the bottom half of the NHL players and if rules are implemented to open up the game there are many slightly under-sized AHL players that could actually improve the quality of the NHL product.

Living in Philadelphia I can watch AHL hockey anytime I want as the Phantoms play about 500 yards from where the Flyers play. I have no problem with AHL hockey for $12-19 per game.

 

[AM]

sure

I wasn't talking about the last ten years. I was talking about this lockout. Big difference.

And the players got as much as they could while they could because it was given to them. Joe Sakic didn't offer himself $15million frontloaded.

How about when they say, enough is enough!

How does he respond to that?

"I'm not going to play!!"

Yup, very commendable!

 

[Timmy]

How about when they say, enough is enough!

How does he respond to that?

"I'm not going to play!!"

Yup, very commendable!

Maybe somebody should access media archives and see how many times an agent said a team's offer was "a joke" to his client before the agents and players wade in about players just taking what was given to them.

How many players in the last ten years didn't start training camp on time due to contract disputes?

Man, memories are short.

 

[AM]

not hard to figure out

Maybe somebody should access media archives and see how many times an agent said a team's offer was "a joke" to his client before the agents and players wade in about players just taking what was given to them.

How many players in the last ten years didn't start training camp on time due to contract disputes?

Man, memories are short.

2 or 3 a year per team.

Its the rare player whos goes to the team and says...

I like playing here lets see what you can afford( ok ok, there have to have been at least a few).

 

[Tawnos]

And how many players didn't do that? How many players settled during training camp in time for the season, which is really all that matters? How many players were content to negotiate the best contract they can get through fair negotiations. The VAST VAST majority of players do that. So those who hold out become the exception to the rule.

As AM so eloquently put it earlier, the exception proves the rule. How many players seriously hold out in a given season? 6? 7? 10? Even if it is 2 or 3 per team, thats 90 max. Out of SEVEN HUNDRED?? Less than 15% at the most. Players get villified for a group that never even accounts for a 5th of their membership. And somehow the owners have no choice to cave when it's a very select group that holds out. The fans, the media... none of that matters. It doesn't now and it didn't then. So don't give me that garbage. If the fans mattered, we never would've had a cancelled season. Period.

If the owners really cared about the fans, the players would've been traded at fair market value long before some of the lengthier holdouts ended. Do you really think that the Sharks couldn't get a good return for Brad Stuart?

And if someone with the same statistics as you gets paid $4mil, why should you settle for any less? Most players aren't stupid. Given the business oriented aspect of the game, do you really think players care where they play? I know very few people who would turn down a job that pays them double what they're getting now, for the same job, out of loyalty to their employer. And still, a good number of players are deluded and misled by their agents as well. Both are causes of hold-outs. And both can be stood up to.

 

[AM]

those 6-10

And how many players didn't do that? How many players settled during training camp in time for the season, which is really all that matters? How many players were content to negotiate the best contract they can get through fair negotiations. The VAST VAST majority of players do that. So those who hold out become the exception to the rule.

As AM so eloquently put it earlier, the exception proves the rule. How many players seriously hold out in a given season? 6? 7? 10? Even if it is 2 or 3 per team, thats 90 max. Out of SEVEN HUNDRED?? Less than 15% at the most. Players get villified for a group that never even accounts for a 5th of their membership. And somehow the owners have no choice to cave when it's a very select group that holds out. The fans, the media... none of that matters. It doesn't now and it didn't then. So don't give me that garbage. If the fans mattered, we never would've had a cancelled season. Period.

If the owners really cared about the fans, the players would've been traded at fair market value long before some of the lengthier holdouts ended. Do you really think that the Sharks couldn't get a good return for Brad Stuart?

And if someone with the same statistics as you gets paid $4mil, why should you settle for any less? Most players aren't stupid. Given the business oriented aspect of the game, do you really think players care where they play? I know very few people who would turn down a job that pays them double what they're getting now, for the same job, out of loyalty to their employer. And still, a good number of players are deluded and misled by their agents as well. Both are causes of hold-outs. And both can be stood up to.

Are just the tip of the iceburg that everyone sees.

GO ahead MR Titanic Captain, full steam ahead!

Also, how do players get stats? The answer is simple, teams play them in situations where they can get those points.

Stats arnt a god given result of your ability.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

I'll be watching the best players in the world. Unlike others it doesn't have to be an NHL brand for me to be a fan. If the best players are playing in the WHA I'll be watching and supporting that 100%

nothing like watching the Hamilton Whatever's playing the Houston Whocare's for a trophy that has no meaning

but hey, as long as the "best players" make their multimillions in a no-cap league, it's all good!

bring on the Memorial Cup

 

[Tawnos]

AM: So now you're into conspiracy theory. That 6-10 somehow represents the rest of the group. No, I'm sorry but that's utterly ludicrous. Have fun being blinded by the media.

 

[Tawnos]

nothing like watching the Hamilton Whatever's playing the Houston Whocare's for a trophy that has no meaning

but hey, as long as the "best players" make their multimillions in a no-cap league, it's all good!

bring on the Memorial Cup

So... the Stanley Cup is going to have meaning when it's going to go to a bunch of second or third rate players?

The Memorial Cup is great but it doesn't represent the pinnacle of achievment in hockey. And if there are replacement players in the NHL next season, the Avco Cup (or whatever they decide to call it) will have a greater claim to that "pinnacle" than the Stanley Cup will.

 

[AM]

Its not like

AM: So now you're into conspiracy theory. That 6-10 somehow represents the rest of the group. No, I'm sorry but that's utterly ludicrous. Have fun being blinded by the media.

what I'm saying is rocket science.

Player salaries have escalated because of some of the contracts offered by teams in special situations.

Player number renewing contract, I just want whats fair, look at what X got!

I'm not sure what impediment you've got but, I dont think blinders are my problem.