It’s too late

Ratboy

I made a funny!
Jul 15, 2009
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I just want one round victory. Anything more than that is gravy.

I do think overly big teams will give us problems. It will likely have to be addressed at some point.
 

Daisy Jane

everything is gonna be okay!
Jul 2, 2009
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I believe also Leafs lack of team toughness could very well spell their demise, so I tend to agree with o'Neill assessment of Leafs known weakness..

Teams that are big and strong and physical as well as fast and skilled can play the game any you want like Bruins and Jets etc and as such could use that toughness factor to their advantage to impose their will on the Leafs.

The playoffs get tougher and tighter checking and Leafs game is speed and skill alone which is the components that come under that most pressure as scoring comes down and defense comes to the forefront of successful teams.


so could chicago
imposing your will doesn't always need to be about being "tough" in the way you are talking about
 

ottomaddox

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Oct 31, 2017
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I remember a playoff series vs. Boston where Grabovski spent a lot of time laying on the ice. He better not...oh wait! He was bought out! Ok. Nevermind.
 

Menzinger

Kessel4LadyByng
Apr 24, 2014
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I feel that this comes up a lot and the standard response generally is "Well Chicago/Pittsburgh..."

yah. well Chicago/Pittsburgh.
they are fast, and skilled and very offensively gifted, but they also had (have) some pieces that when necessary could make you regret some decisions. (either just how they played, or by their fists). and if they didn't have it, they went out and got it.

I feel around these parts people just assume when people go "we need to get tougher" they flashback to Orr and McLaren (heck or even Martin who just didn't translate well here, sadly). But there are a lot of players out there who can be skilled and tough. It would be nice to have that kind of 'two way' play so to speak. sort of like a higher end Domi, or a Tucker-esque player (i think these days they call him Thachuk).

with that being said - I feel (personally) the Leafs have been relatively coasting the last few weeks, (to stave off injury), and Ifeel they can be a lot 'tougher' to play against. We've seen this activate on a dime several times this season (and for the whole playoff run last year). I do think how we lose (if we lose teehee) will be 'addressed' in some fashion. Not in a total "we need to get Clarkson!!!" kind of way but just having some other options who are also skilled and fast.

it doesn't have to be one or the other, there could be a very awesome shade of grey available here too.

Yet at the same time, it’s not as if the current Leafs roster is incapable of throwing hits or battling for pucks, we see them do so every game.

People throw out terms like “soft” to describe players and teams, yet it never seems to be fully accurate description.

The narrative being pushed by some in this thread that the Leafs are going to get hit a bunch and collapse simply isn’t going to happen.
 
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justafan22

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Jun 22, 2014
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Phyiscality is fine. Just not when it's players that can't keep up. Guys like kadri, marchand are useful SOBs that can play well. Guys like thornton, martin are from a nhl 10 years ago.
 
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Mess

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Feb 27, 2002
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Playoffs often become tighter checking and with that "dump and chase" tactics are required to win puck battles when teams break up the rush and slow up the attack of skating and skilled teams.

Babcock tried unsuccessfully this year to try and get the Leafs ready for the playoffs with this strategy of teaching them to adapt, during the regular season, but Leafs lack of size, strength and physicality to win puck battles and puck retrieval is something that will be tested again this years playoffs..

This is what O'Neill is hinting at here that physical play and strength by the opposition might be the kryptonite that brings down the Leafs team this year.
 

moon111

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Oct 18, 2014
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Think there's different categories of what is 'tough'. Fighting along the boards for the puck? Tying up a guy in front of your net. Punching someone in the face. Blocking shots. Being a physical presence in front of the net. Some players can play tougher then they do, but bring it come the playoffs. Last season Bozak had 0.6 hits per game in the regular season. In the playoffs, it was up to 2.5 hits per game. A significant increase. Marleau went from 1.0 to 2.8 hits per game. Another veteran player who tries to avoid unnecessary injuries, but brings it when the chips are down. Nylander always has 0.3 hits per game and isn't expected to change. As much as we argue about the 4th line, it's a position of envy, as the Leafs can ice various dimensions as needed. It might make more sense to play certain players at home or on the road, what team you're up against, or just give players a break so there's no excuse of not seeing 110%.
 
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Daisy Jane

everything is gonna be okay!
Jul 2, 2009
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Yet at the same time, it’s not as if the current Leafs roster is incapable of throwing hits or battling for pucks, we see them do so every game.

People throw out terms like “soft” to describe players and teams, yet it never seems to be fully accurate description.

The narrative being pushed by some in this thread that the Leafs are going to get hit a bunch and collapse simply isn’t going to happen.

right.
I feel personally when we're on our game and say a team like St Louis (or Nashville) is on their game, I feel we tend to struggle just a bit. Not so much hitting/puckbattling but i feel the style of play they have, heavy forcheck, etc. that can be combatted with crisp clean zone exists and entries sure but i feel so does a heavier style of player. it takes all types. a hockey team is a village (imo). that's why it drives me nuts that some people want to dismiss one aspect (for another) or feel we don't need a certain type of player or defense, because say it with me "Chicago slash Pittsburgh."
 

Gary Nylund

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Oct 10, 2013
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Think there's different categories of what is 'tough'. Fighting along the boards for the puck? Tying up a guy in front of your net. Punching someone in the face. Blocking shots. Being a physical presence in front of the net. Some players can play tougher then they do, but bring it come the playoffs. Last season Bozak had 0.6 hits per game in the regular season. In the playoffs, it was up to 2.5 hits per game. A significant increase. Marleau went from 1.0 to 2.8 hits per game. Another veteran player who tries to avoid unnecessary injuries, but brings it when the chips are down. Nylander always has 0.3 hits per game and isn't expected to change. As much as we argue about the 4th line, it's a position of envy, as the Leafs can ice various dimensions as needed. It might make more sense to play certain players at home or on the road, what team you're up against, or just give players a break so there's no excuse of not seeing 110%.

Those are interesting numbers, thanks for sharing. I didn't need to know about Nylander though. :laugh::laugh: JK.
 

Mess

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Feb 27, 2002
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When it comes to size, strength and physicality in the playoffs the Leafs will be bringing in Knife to a Gun fight.

Hopefully the opposition either runs out of bullets first or are not accurate shots before it ends up ending the Leafs season.

Leafs will be at a disadvantage when it comes to this aspect of the game, and will prefer to keep track meet and not a boxing/wrestling match.
 

slozo

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Aug 28, 2011
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Of the last 10 cups, 3 have been won by the Pens, 3 by the Hawks, and 1 by the Wings. These teams have been defined by their high end skill, speed, hustle and 2-way play more than their size, toughness and physicality. You can’t be soft, you have to battle hard for the puck, but the Leafs fit that description. We have good hustle/compete, we just don’t lay a tonne of big hits or fight a lot.

I think the Leafs are quite a long shot for the cup this year, but not because of toughness, there’s just teams who are more experienced and polished than we are. If we replaced Kapanen/Johnsson with Komarov/Martin, our physicality goes way up, but our chances in any given series go down significantly.
THIS.

Especially in today's NHL, the game favours a deep and skilled team, and a TENACIOUS team. If you were to say that you need to be a tenacious, rather than a tough team, I would wholeheartedly agree. And if we look at our more likely partners in round 1 . . . TB is probably the softest team we'll play in the playoffs, if we ever get past them. But they're extremely skilled.

I think we actually stack up very well as a tenacious team - and Babcock has tried his best, some say to his detriment, to keep those tenacious checkers in the lineup as much as possible. I'm looking at you, uncle Leo!

Nah . . . we're good.
If we get knocked out early, it'll likely be because goaltending wasn't quite good enough, or injuries, or our best skilled players getting shut down due to holding, grabbing, obstruction, or just plain poor performance. If we succeed, it'll likely be because of great goaltending, and great offensive depth.
 
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HamiltonNHL

Parity era hockey is just puck luck + draft luck
Jan 4, 2012
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but is it possible to succeed in the heavy hitting ‘refs let it all go’ cauldron that is the NHL playoffs

I think this playoffs will feature more penalties.
More than previous playoffs.

Automatic penalties will still be called.

You hack with your stick .. penalty.
You interfere with the offence ? penalty.
It was called automatically all season .... and this will follow into the playoffs.

I think the NHL likes penalties because it keeps scoring high.

our best skilled players getting shut down due to holding, grabbing, obstruction, or just plain poor performance.
This NHL season started differently.
ALOT more penalties.
This is going to continue into the playoffs.
 

Pookie

Wear a mask
Oct 23, 2013
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I think this playoffs will feature more penalties.
More than previous playoffs.

Automatic penalties will still be called.

You hack with your stick .. penalty.
You interfere with the offence ? penalty.
It was called automatically all season .... and this will follow into the playoffs.

I think the NHL likes penalties because it keeps scoring high.


This NHL season started differently.
ALOT more penalties.
This is going to continue into the playoffs.

I don’t think so.

Suspensions and all of that are generally lighter in the post season. IMO, the GMs don’t want refs deciding the outcome of games. Refs don’t operate in a vacuum and I don’t see NHL GMs as a bastion of forward thinking, especially come playoffs.

They will get their direction from the league. Who get it from their GMs and Owners.
 

saltming

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Oct 6, 2015
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When it comes to size, strength and physicality in the playoffs the Leafs will be bringing in Knife to a Gun fight.

Hopefully the opposition either runs out of bullets first or are not accurate shots before it ends up ending the Leafs season.

Leafs will be at a disadvantage when it comes to this aspect of the game, and will prefer to keep track meet and not a boxing/wrestling match.
You can't hit what you can't catch.

It will be interesting matchups for sure. I find the whole soft narrative funny because we aren't soft. We just don't play physical but we don't shy away in the corners (in general)

Imo where we need to pick it up is in the d zone to break other teams cycling. Once we figure that out and if we can maintain our puck movement from the d men we should be gold
 
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X66

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Aug 18, 2008
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I don’t think so.

Suspensions and all of that are generally lighter in the post season. IMO, the GMs don’t want refs deciding the outcome of games. Refs don’t operate in a vacuum and I don’t see NHL GMs as a bastion of forward thinking, especially come playoffs.

They will get their direction from the league. Who get it from their GMs and Owners.

There were more(very slightly) PPs generated in the playoffs last year(per-game) than there was in the regular season.

The refs will be fine.
 
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Gary Nylund

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Oct 10, 2013
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There were more(very slightly) PPs generated in the playoffs last year(per-game) than there was in the regular season.

The refs will be fine.

Well, there goes the theory of GM's/owners telling the refs not to call penalties I guess. Good to see consistency in that regard, it makes zero sense to have different rules in the playoffs.
 

Wafflewhipper

Registered User
Jan 18, 2014
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Of all playoff teams as of today, we are the least penalized team going in. They can take the physical play and remain disciplined.

Can the physical teams skate and score with us is likely their worries. I will take the quick skating, high scoring and elite special teams over trying to be to physical.

Most teams can't really skate with us once you factor in the unique and good mix of talent that is fast.

This team tracks the puck really well and will throw a hit whennits there but they don't chase the big hit.

Thats smart hockey and as we all know from watching great Detroit playoff teams, its a Babcock brand.
 
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Gary Nylund

Registered User
Oct 10, 2013
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Of all playoff teams as of today, we are the least penalized team going in. They can take the physical play and remain disciplined.

Can the physical teams skate and score with us is likely their worries. I will take the quick skating, high scoring and elite special teams over trying to be to physical.

Most teams can't really skate with us once you factor in the unique and good mix of talent that is fast.

This team tracks the puck really well and will throw a hit whennits there but they don't chase the big hit.

Thats smart hockey and as we all know from watching great Detroit playoff teams, its a Babcock brand.

I like the idea smart hockey but don't we take a lot more penalties then we draw?
 

djdev

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Dec 26, 2015
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if the leafs use their speed to exit the zone quickly it will give boston fits. it all comes down to the forwards not flying the zone and leaving the defensemen with no viable options for short outlet passes, thats when we get hail mary stretch passes and our game dies.
im not concerned about the "tough" style...we handled boston and nashville very well this year and those teams play pretty heavy and with some speed.
playing with intensity and fighting for pucks has nothing to do with size, we can accomplish the same things by beating the other team to the puck and making them chase us. u cant hit what you cant catch.
we play smart and play our game and we can beat anyone in a 7 game series.
 
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