ISS Top 30

SeasonTicket

Registered User
Sep 5, 2006
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Size still seemed to be an issue at the draft this past June. A lot of skilled small players with huge points that were ranked all year long were passed over (McDonaugh with Saginaw and Hughes with Belleville are examples).

Everyone says the NHL has changed but the drafting seems the same. They don't draft small one dimensional players. Plus look at his pic on the OHL website. Kane looks like he's about 12 years old.

Plus look at guys like Corey Locke he's still with Hamilton. Huge points in OHl but only drafted 4 round and not putting up huge numbers in AHL.
 

RUSqueelin*

Registered User
Nov 2, 2005
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Well, you are entitled to your opinion, of course, but I think you're overstating your case a bit. Being ranked 35th in October is nothing to sneeze at. We did have him ranked at No. 27 in our July rankings. I'm not sure why, other than the reason I've already listed, he dropped for our first ranking this season.

Like I hinted at earlier, I think he'll be a climber. There are a number of players who are ranked higher that have not performed well and will be supplanted by Kane in the first round. Our rankings are not done by one person, so when a player moves up or down, it tends not to happen quickly. Once all of our scouts have seen a player, you get a more accurate picture.

I didn't mean to go off on ISS as I can appreciate how hard it is to compile a list and everyone has a complaint about the order. Whether a player is ranked 5th or 15th is just a matter of opinion. But I'm just questioning it like everyone else. From Knights camp till now, I've thought that Kane/Gagner has been a toss up of who is better just like every other Knights fan. And to me Kane has the better natural abilities - Gagner's just sneeky good (how he ended up with 6 points last night I don't know). So that's why I've got to :banghead: when I see Gagner 6th and Kane (35th) not on the list. How could their be such a gap? - that is bizzare.

I'm sure the rankings will change quite a bit next time like you said. But you have to admit your scouts missed the boat this time around on this one. Oh well, water under the bridge come next June.
 
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Big Daddy

Registered User
Dec 16, 2005
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All scouting services are faced with a daunting task when compiling their rankings. But all that really matters is who wants whom on draft day. Those are the rankings that really matter.
 

PatsPats

Registered User
Oct 9, 2006
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Leclerc

Well I know Justin Leclerc Is My nextdoor neighbour when he is back home here in Saskatoon lol Justin Leclerc has been facing so many shots this seaosn thus far in leth. He is definately having a good seaosn thus far. He has a good chance to climb to that #1 spot for goaltenders.
 

OHLArenaGuide

it's dot com
Dec 4, 2003
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London, ON
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Plus look at guys like Corey Locke he's still with Hamilton. Huge points in OHl but only drafted 4 round and not putting up huge numbers in AHL.

Yes, but everyone and his brother knew that Locke was a one-dimensional player whose play wouldn't translate into a higher level of hockey. He had "former junior phenom" written all over him. Kane meanwhile has only to show he can play a committed, defensive team game to vault into the Top 20, minimum.
 

VanW27

Registered User
Jun 9, 2003
4,725
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Canada
Yes, but everyone and his brother knew that Locke was a one-dimensional player whose play wouldn't translate into a higher level of hockey. He had "former junior phenom" written all over him. Kane meanwhile has only to show he can play a committed, defensive team game to vault into the Top 20, minimum.

Everyone and his brother knew the same about Kyle Wellwood.;)
 

ISS Hockey

Top30 Draft Rankings
I didn't mean to go off on ISS as I can appreciate how hard it is to compile a list and everyone has a complaint about the order. Whether a player is ranked 5th or 15th is just a matter of opinion. But I'm just questioning it like everyone else. From Knights camp till now, I've thought that Kane/Gagner has been a toss up of who is better just like every other Knights fan. And to me Kane has the better natural abilities - Gagner's just sneeky good (how he ended up with 6 points last night I don't know). So that's why I've got to :banghead: when I see Gagner 6th and Kane (35th) not on the list. How could their be such a gap? - that is bizzare.

I'm sure the rankings will change quite a bit next time like you said. But you have to admit your scouts missed the boat this time around on this one. Oh well, water under the bridge come next June.

No worries. We know we're not always right, but I challenge you to find a scout or scouting service that is. You might find some who make the claim, but no one can back that up.

Don't let the ranking fool you. I don't think the gap between Kane and Gagner is that big either. We'll have a profile on the London trio (including McRae) in our October 15 Future NHL Stars Report. From what I'm hearing, Kane's performance since our Oct. 4 rankings were prepared will push him up considerably.

If Pat Kane is proving us wrong by playing better than a No. 35 prospect, well, we'll have to move him up won't we? For that matter, we might have to do the same with Gagner.
 

toshiro

Registered User
Jun 14, 2005
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Western Canuckland
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/feature/?fid=10631&hubname=

I apologize if this has already been posted...

Top 30 Skaters

No. *Player Pos. Team
1 *Couture, Logan F Ottawa
2 *Voracek, Jakub C Halifax
3 *Esposito, Angelo C Quebec
4 *Petrecki, Nick D Omaha
5 *Katic, Marc D Sarnia
6 *Gagner, Sam RW London
7 *Alzner, Karl D Calgary
8 *Van Riemsdyk, James LW US Under-18
9 *Gillies, Colton C Saskatoon
10 *Backlund, Mikael C Vasteras
11 *Negrin, John D Kootenay
12 *O'Brien, Jim F Minnesota
13 *Hickey, Thomas D Seattle
14 *Ellerby, Keaton D Kamloops
15 *Repik, Michal RW Vancouver
16 *Sutter, Brandon C Red Deer
17 *Stich, David D Saint John
18 *Ross, Nick D Regina
19 *Doyle, Eric D Everett
20 *Hoeffel, Mike F US Under-18
21 *Turris, Kyle C Burnaby
22 *Torquato, Zac C Saginaw
23 *Blum, John D Vancouver
24 *Karamnov, Vitaly C Dynamo
25 *McCrae, Justin C Saskatoon
26 *Bashkirov, Ruslan RW Quebec
27 *Hamill, Zach C Everett
28 *MacMillan, Logan C Halifax
29 *Moller, Oscar RW Chiliwack
30 *Smith, Brendan D St. Michael's

Top 5 Goaltenders

No. Player Rnd. Team
1 *Benda, Marek 2nd Karlovy Vary
2 *Leclerc, Justin 2nd Lethbridge
3 *Mucha, Kurt 2nd Portland
4 *Cann, Trevor 3rd Peterborough
5 *Riopel, Nicola 3rd Moncton
 

patsfan29

Registered User
Jul 30, 2006
66
0
Regina
5pt night for 18th ranked D-man Nick Ross tonight, two goals and three assits in a 5-2 Pats win....he be movin on up:handclap:
 

ISS Hockey

Top30 Draft Rankings
And of best 30 players born in 1989 just 2 play in europe? I don't believe it even if i watch all 1989 in the world with my eyes.

It does seem hard to believe, but consider that five of the players ranked in the first round were trained in Europe but came over to play in Canada. Voracek, Repik (not an 89, but his late birthday makes him eligible for NHL draft in 2007), Stich, Bashkirov and Moller. Also, just outside the first round are Jens Hellgren #33, Ondrej Roman #34 and Vladimir Ruzicka #36.
 

MS

1%er
Mar 18, 2002
53,367
83,458
Vancouver, BC
Size still seemed to be an issue at the draft this past June. A lot of skilled small players with huge points that were ranked all year long were passed over (McDonaugh with Saginaw and Hughes with Belleville are examples).

Everyone says the NHL has changed but the drafting seems the same. They don't draft small one dimensional players. Plus look at his pic on the OHL website. Kane looks like he's about 12 years old.

Plus look at guys like Corey Locke he's still with Hamilton. Huge points in OHl but only drafted 4 round and not putting up huge numbers in AHL.

Agreed.

Kane's official size, as measured by CSS, is 5'9, 162. A lot of teams will have a problem with that.

Gagne is 5'11 190, which is no problem at all.
 

Alessandro Seren Rosso

Registered User
Jun 21, 2004
5,777
213
Europe
thehockeywriters.com
It does seem hard to believe, but consider that five of the players ranked in the first round were trained in Europe but came over to play in Canada. Voracek, Repik (not an 89, but his late birthday makes him eligible for NHL draft in 2007), Stich, Bashkirov and Moller. Also, just outside the first round are Jens Hellgren #33, Ondrej Roman #34 and Vladimir Ruzicka #36.

But this means that out of the best 36 players just 8 are europeans for 22%...just admit that your service is too biased towards north americans, like all north american things about hockey.
Yes, i am no one and your service is probably the best scouting in all over the world, i am not saying anything different, but if i say that things i am not that far from the truth.
 

Lunatik*

Guest
Well I know Justin Leclerc Is My nextdoor neighbour when he is back home here in Saskatoon lol Justin Leclerc has been facing so many shots this seaosn thus far in leth. He is definately having a good seaosn thus far. He has a good chance to climb to that #1 spot for goaltenders.
maybe there is actually a reason to go see the 'Canes this year then... i find it really hard to get into junior hokcey because its a constant rotation of players... i like being able to cheer for a guy for more than a few years... i went and saw seabrook a few times... and went to every home game in the memorial cup run season when Phillips, Salvador, Willis, Ritchie & Co. were playing extremely well
 

Fozz

Registered User
Aug 1, 2002
7,730
210
Ottawa
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Question to ISS:

Where do you rank Rimouski's Maxime Tanguay? I love his overall game and he's got great numbers so far this season. I fully expect to see his stock rise dramatically and be a first rounder next summer... Thanks.
 
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ISS Hockey

Top30 Draft Rankings
But this means that out of the best 36 players just 8 are europeans for 22%...just admit that your service is too biased towards north americans, like all north american things about hockey.
Yes, i am no one and your service is probably the best scouting in all over the world, i am not saying anything different, but if i say that things i am not that far from the truth.

Biased? That's a pretty serious accusation and one I don't agree with.

I can tell you from speaking with our Director of Scouting that he has no bias toward European players. It is true that we are located in Canada, but we have no bias toward European players.

An example: In 2004, when just about every other scouting service or prospect site had Cam Barker ranked as the best defence prospect for the 2004 draft, we had Andrej Meszaros ranked ahead of him at No. 4. Meszaros is from the Czech Republic, Barker is from Canada. Also, that year, we had three Europeans ranked ahead of Meszaros, Ovechkin, Malkin and Tukonen. If we were biased, we would have found a way to put North Americans ahead of them. We didn't because we look at ability, not nationality.

Also, in 2005, we had Anze Kopitar ranked higher than anybody else for the draft (No. 6). Not only did we not show bias that he was from Europe, we didn't show bias that he was from Slovenia like many other scouts did.

These are just two examples, I realize, but I know I could find more because I know there is no bias in our organization in favour of North American players.

One think that you have to realize, and this applies to hockey fans all regions of the world who think they are underrepresented in a draft or in a set of rankings. Hockey talent is kind of like the world's oceans, there is an ebb and flow and it goes up and down from year to year. Some years, talent is really good in a country, some years it is not.

If the talent in Europe is better than our initial rankings reflect, we'll adjust those accordingly over the season as we see them play. No bias.
 
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MS

1%er
Mar 18, 2002
53,367
83,458
Vancouver, BC
But this means that out of the best 36 players just 8 are europeans for 22%...just admit that your service is too biased towards north americans, like all north american things about hockey.
Yes, i am no one and your service is probably the best scouting in all over the world, i am not saying anything different, but if i say that things i am not that far from the truth.

North Americans are always over-represented in these lists early in the year.

The European guys are a lot less accessable, playing in more obscure, lower-calibre junior leagues in front of far fewer scouts. They gradually creep up the rankings as the year goes along, and several guys always 'come out of nowhere' at the U-18s in April.
 

RUSqueelin*

Registered User
Nov 2, 2005
1,061
0
Agreed.

Kane's official size, as measured by CSS, is 5'9, 162. A lot of teams will have a problem with that.

Gagne is 5'11 190, which is no problem at all.


That may be their numbers but I can tell you they are virtually the same. Particulary with the way they play. Kane is very strong on his skates, great center of gravity and is very quick. Very hard to knock the puck off and doesn't mind making or taking contact to get the puck on make a play. His size is a none issue.
 

VanW27

Registered User
Jun 9, 2003
4,725
1,467
Canada
Couture is out for at least a month with mono. 67's are last place in the whole OHL before he's out. :shakehead

Wonder if that affects his draft status significantly, look at how long it took Jeff Carter to get back into top form. :dunno:
 

Alessandro Seren Rosso

Registered User
Jun 21, 2004
5,777
213
Europe
thehockeywriters.com
Biased? That's a pretty serious accusation and one I don't agree with.

I can tell you from speaking with our Director of Scouting that he has no bias toward European players. It is true that we are located in Canada, but we have no bias toward European players.

An example: In 2004, when just about every other scouting service or prospect site had Cam Barker ranked as the best defence prospect for the 2004 draft, we had Andrej Meszaros ranked ahead of him at No. 4. Meszaros is from the Czech Republic, Barker is from Canada. Also, that year, we had three Europeans ranked ahead of Meszaros, Ovechkin, Malkin and Tukonen. If we were biased, we would have found a way to put North Americans ahead of them. We didn't because we look at ability, not nationality.

Also, in 2005, we had Anze Kopitar ranked higher than anybody else for the draft (No. 6). Not only did we not show bias that he was from Europe, we didn't show bias that he was from Slovenia like many other scouts did.

These are just two examples, I realize, but I know I could find more because I know there is no bias in our organization in favour of North American players.

One think that you have to realize, and this applies to hockey fans all regions of the world who think they are underrepresented in a draft or in a set of rankings. Hockey talent is kind of like the world's oceans, there is an ebb and flow and it goes up and down from year to year. Some years, talent is really good in a country, some years it is not.

If the talent in Europe is better than our initial rankings reflect, we'll adjust those accordingly over the season as we see them play. No bias.

Well sorry to offend you or your organization with just a word as "bias". I didn't know it was that harsh. Remember i am not english motherlanguage. I didn't want to offense, just to discuss.
 

ISS Hockey

Top30 Draft Rankings
Well sorry to offend you or your organization with just a word as "bias". I didn't know it was that harsh. Remember i am not english motherlanguage. I didn't want to offense, just to discuss.

OK, don't worry. But I hope my explanation helped you understand that a low number of European trained players is not because of bias. In English, bias means, you treat somebody differently because of who they are or where they are from.

Another poster made a good point about how our scouts don't see Europeans as much early in the season. As the year goes on and we see them in more tournaments, they will climb up the rankings if their talent justifies it.

Cheers.:cheers:
 

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