Prospect Info: Isles Prospect Talk PART XI

[periferal]

I'm surprised by how much Dal Colle is struggling to produce even at the AHL level. I thought his skating would hold him back from producing at the NHL level, but I figured he had enough natural talent/skill to be a high scorer in the AHL even with the skating limitations.

Yes the skating is a massive issues, but there's something wrong with his mental game. He's like that kid at a party who wants' to ask a girl to dance, but keeps his head down, hesitates, then a more confident guy elbows him as he takes that girl to the dance floor.

I understand he's a sniper and not a gritty 3rd line checking forward, but where's that fire inside to want to make it happen. I don't see it.

 

[doublechili]

Had some extra time today and a bug up my rear, so I did some half arsed investigation work that more than proved my suspicion I've felt for awhile now that the Islanders have seriously neglected the talent pool in Europe for a long time now. Going back to the 2010 draft, to hammer this point home I'm going to post who we drafted that year, plus the next three Euros and their positions as well as the next three N.Americans and their draft positions....

2010:
We pick Nino 5th overall (technically a Euro, but was picked out of NA)

Next 3 Euros:
9th - M. Granlund
16th - V. Tarasenko
26th - E. Kuznetsov

Next 3 NA:
6th - B. Connelly
7th - J. Skinner
8th - A. Burmistrov (same as Nino)

-----------------------------------------------
2011:
We pick Strome 5th

Next 3 Euros:
6th - M. Zibanejad
10th - J. Brodin
16th J. Armia

Next 3 NA:
7th - M. Scheifele
8th - S. Couturier
9th - D. Hamilton

-------------------------------------------------
2012:
We pick G. Reinhart 4th

Next 3 Euros:
6th - H. Lindholm
11th - F. Forsberg
17th - T. Hertl

Next 3 NA:
5th - M. Reilly
7th - M. Dumba
8th - D. Pouliot

----------------------------------------------------

2013:
We pick R. Pulock 15th

Next 3 Euros:
16th - N. Zadorov
23rd - A. Burakovsky
27th - M.Dano

Next 3 NA:
17 - C. Lazar
18th - M. Mueller
19th - K. Rychel

------------------------------------------------------

2014:
We pick M. dal Colle 5th

Next 3 Euros:
8th - W. Nylander
11th - K. Fiala
13th - J. Vrana

Next 3 NA:
6th - J. Virtanen
7th - H. Fleury
9th - N. Ehlers (Euro, but drafted out of NA)

-----------------------------------------------------------

2015-17 is far too early yet. Take all these players and list them in order of how good they are. Eight of the top 10 are going to be Euros, and at least one of those out of NA is actually European (Ehlers).

Jester, I wish I had seen your post before doing similar research myself (for a post in another thread) on the next Euro taken after Strome, Reinhart, Pulock and MDC! Good stuff, and man do I wish we had gone for the Euros.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Yes the skating is a massive issues, but there's something wrong with his mental game. He's like that kid at a party who wants' to ask a girl to dance, but keeps his head down, hesitates, then a more confident guy elbows him as he takes that girl to the dance floor.

I understand he's a sniper and not a gritty 3rd line checking forward, but where's that fire inside to want to make it happen. I don't see it.

So in your analogy above, Nylander steals Dal Colle's girl?

 

[Jester9881]

So in your analogy above, Nylander steals Dal Colle's girl?

Not only that, but his rich uncle buys the diner and knocks it down for a golf course. But somehow he's not the villain, it's Garth Snow.

 

[Strait2thecup]

Looking back on it i have no understanding of how dal colle was consensus over guys like nylander and ehlers. They are now and im assuming were at the time of the draft so much more dynamic.

Kind of unbelievable that weve gotten rid of 4 top 5 picks since 2010. Unbelievable isnt the right word, its just sad. Garth Snow, you sir are a f***ing idiot

 

[Jester9881]

IIRC, there was a consensus top 4, then just about everyone had MDC anywhere from 5-7. To be fair, it really is a crapshoot.... but for Snow to miss on so many is unacceptable. Whether it's him, the scouting or the way the team is developing players, something has to change. Look at the list I provided and imagine if Snow went George Costanza and said to himself, no matter who I want to pick, I'm picking the next highest rated euro.

 

[Jester9881]

I'm going to take hindsight completely out of the picture. Pretend I was GM representing the Islanders and had no idea what any of these players had to offer. Didn't do any interviews, and was only armed with the latest ISS scouting list. I'm going to pick the highest ranked Euro left on the board with each of my first round picks since 2010.....

2010: Tarasenko
2011: Zibanejad
2012: Forseberg
2013: Wennberg
2014: W.Nylander

What a kick the nuts

 

[Strait2thecup]

I'm going to take hindsight completely out of the picture. Pretend I was GM representing the Islanders and had no idea what any of these players had to offer. Didn't do any interviews, and was only armed with the latest ISS scouting list. I'm going to pick the highest ranked Euro with each of my first round picks since 2010.....

2010: Tarasenko
2011: Zibanejad
2012: Forseberg
2013: Wennberg
2014: W.Nylander

What a kick the nuts

im gonna just copy this post everytime somebody defends garth snow. I know hindsight, crapshoot, whatever. He made the wrong pick EVERY TIME. We went through a rebuild for several years after we got Tavares and essentially came away with not a single impact player. Way to go Snow! Having just one of those guys would make a huge difference.

 

[ekill08x]

MDC's short comings, and mental makeup have nothing to do with garth snow. I hate snow as a gm but blaming him for MDC is actually stupid.

 

[Jester9881]

Forsberg - Tavares - Tarasenko
Lee - Wennberg - Nylander
Nelson - Zibanejad -

I'll stop now.... I don't know how anyone still defends not firing Snow.

 

[Islesfan22]

MDC's short comings, and mental makeup have nothing to do with garth snow. I hate snow as a gm but blaming him for MDC is actually stupid.

Then who do you blame? It's up to Snow and his scouts to identify the best players in the draft not the general consensus

 

[Strait2thecup]

MDC's short comings, and mental makeup have nothing to do with garth snow. I hate snow as a gm but blaming him for MDC is actually stupid.

Yup! just like strome, and nino, and reinhart. Guy is legit. Really dont understand the logic on calling peoples opinions "actually stupid" to defend a guy whose taken the team nowhere in over 10 years. Shows the loser mentality of some of this fanbase

 

[ekill08x]

Yup! just like strome, and nino, and reinhart. Guy is legit. Really dont understand the logic on calling peoples opinions "actually stupid" to defend a guy whose taken the team nowhere in over 10 years. Shows the loser mentality of some of this fanbase

MDC was a consensus top 5 pick. We would have went nuts if he didnt make the clear pick. Not everyone makes the jump. I hate garth snow I think he does a terrible job like I cleary stated before, i just cant blame a guy for taking a clear top 5 pick at five overall. Hold the player accountable and blame him for being soft and playing like a Pu$$y. Nobody likes Garth Snow it was time for a change 5 years ago but there is nothing else we can do. Everyone else you named is on garth, but at least reinhart turned into Barzal.

 

[mm11]

Looking back on it i have no understanding of how dal colle was consensus over guys like nylander and ehlers. They are now and im assuming were at the time of the draft so much more dynamic.

Kind of unbelievable that weve gotten rid of 4 top 5 picks since 2010. Unbelievable isnt the right word, its just sad. Garth Snow, you sir are a ****ing idiot

I have to agree here. I mean would the eye test show Ehlers and Nylander were flat our more dynamic? what a swing and a miss for the Isles

 

[ekill08x]

It just sucks and I get the frustration because this kid is EXACTLY what were missing. A sniping winger with great size. Unfortunately this guy just has no toughness what so ever. Sad.

 

[Islesfan22]

It just sucks and I get the frustration because this kid is EXACTLY what were missing. A sniping winger with great size. Unfortunately this guy just has no toughness what so ever. Sad.

I think thats part of the reason why MDC was drafted so high is he had size and skill. So i guess everyone assumed he would improve his skating and get stronger along that boards as he got older. Kid is looking like a bust unfortunately and of course it looks a whole lot worse when you have players a few picks after MDC who look like stars. I know most posters here wanted MDC but there were a few who wanted Ehlers or Nylander. That's why Garth and his staff have failed as they have gotten all these top 5 picks wrong.

 

[doublechili]

MDC was a consensus top 5 pick. We would have went nuts if he didnt make the clear pick. Not everyone makes the jump. I hate garth snow I think he does a terrible job like I cleary stated before, i just cant blame a guy for taking a clear top 5 pick at five overall. Hold the player accountable and blame him for being soft and playing like a Pu$$y. Nobody likes Garth Snow it was time for a change 5 years ago but there is nothing else we can do. Everyone else you named is on garth, but at least reinhart turned into Barzal.

MDC was very popular here, but that was not a case where anyone else at #5 would have been some kind of reach. MDC was part of a group after the top 4, maybe the most popular selection among the online prospect ratings sites, but what do they know?

Seriously, some of us were not MDC fans and wanted Nylander or Ehlers. My big argument was that you don't take a guy at #5 overall who is not considered dynamic or a line driver but rather is looked at as a complimentary player. And his merely average 5 on 5 stats were a red flag.

 

[eoin92]

Forsberg - Tavares - Tarasenko
Lee - Wennberg - Nylander
Nelson - Zibanejad -

I'll stop now.... I don't know how anyone still defends not firing Snow.

He’s a really nice guy!

 

[periferal]

I'm going to take hindsight completely out of the picture. Pretend I was GM representing the Islanders and had no idea what any of these players had to offer. Didn't do any interviews, and was only armed with the latest ISS scouting list. I'm going to pick the highest ranked Euro left on the board with each of my first round picks since 2010.....

2010: Tarasenko
2011: Zibanejad
2012: Forseberg
2013: Wennberg
2014: W.Nylander

What a kick the nuts

im gonna just copy this post everytime somebody defends garth snow. I know hindsight, crapshoot, whatever. He made the wrong pick EVERY TIME. We went through a rebuild for several years after we got Tavares and essentially came away with not a single impact player. Way to go Snow! Having just one of those guys would make a huge difference.

While I 100% agree with you, snow could punch his supporters in the face and they'd still support him. Just the way human psychology works. At best you might get, "I 'm not saying snow is great, but he was resrticed his first few years under wang."

Of course that argument completely ignores your point above and that is...Drafting has zero to do with wang. It's something that any NHL team must do correctly if they want to become Cup contenders. The absolute #1 thing that is the reason the Isles are average as opposed to Cup contenders has been snow's drafting in the top half of the 1st round. Other than Tavares one could make the argument the only other pick he hit on was Nino...And he traded him for a 4th liner.

At the end of the day if you're still think snow should continue on as GM then to me your psychology is no different then the residents in Hemstead, Elmont, or anywhere else who don't want to face change to have something better.

 

[periferal]

MDC was a consensus top 5 pick. We would have went nuts if he didnt make the clear pick.

I'd rather have been nuts back then then nuts now.

 

[LeapOnOver]

While I 100% agree with you, snow could punch his supporters in the face and they'd still support him. Just the way human psychology works. At best you might get, "I 'm not saying snow is great, but he was resrticed his first few years under wang."

Of course that argument completely ignores your point above and that is...Drafting has zero to do with wang. It's something that any NHL team must do correctly if they want to become Cup contenders. The absolute #1 thing that is the reason the Isles are average as opposed to Cup contenders has been snow's drafting in the top half of the 1st round. Other than Tavares one could make the argument the only other pick he hit on was Nino...And he traded him for a 4th liner.

At the end of the day if you're still think snow should continue on as GM then to me your psychology is no different then the residents in Hemstead, Elmont, or anywhere else who don't want to face change to have something better.

Not 100% accurate but probably 95%. If Wang doesn't want to pay a whole bunch of scouts and cut corners there it can affect drafting. Just like a president has advisors so does a GM. Just sayin'

 

[doublechili]

I'd rather have been nuts back then then nuts now.

True, kinda like Filatov as an example of that. Everyone DID go nuts when they didn't take him, and we know how great he turned out.

 

[leeroggy]

I'm going to take hindsight completely out of the picture. Pretend I was GM representing the Islanders and had no idea what any of these players had to offer. Didn't do any interviews, and was only armed with the latest ISS scouting list. I'm going to pick the highest ranked Euro left on the board with each of my first round picks since 2010.....

2010: Tarasenko
2011: Zibanejad
2012: Forseberg
2013: Wennberg
2014: W.Nylander

What a kick the nuts

With that list we could easily trade JT . . . just sayin' . . . for Price

 

[Lame Lambert]

Forsberg - Tavares - Tarasenko
Lee - Wennberg - Nylander
Nelson - Zibanejad -

I'll stop now.... I don't know how anyone still defends not firing Snow.

This hurts me on the inside

 

[steveat]

The ONLY thing that stands out from Snow is his first round choices..most of them are meh and many have not hit their ceiling...they've made it, but only part of the player they were supposed to be. The next thought...hmm..maybe player development needs to be worked on. That doesn't hold true or people like Hamonic would even be in the AHL.

Snow has some slick drafting after the first round...so maybe we suck at establishing translation of high end talent?

Not sure if people can follow my logic...