Value of: Islander's 11th + 12th overall to Montreal

[Deam78]

Shrug, all without giving up your 3rd OV this year as well? You get 3 top 12 picks this year and lose 2 seconds a 1st next year and patches.. it's not as horrible as you think it is

So Patches is the sole reason you make the playoffs or you don't? Really?

Sure you didn't specify which seconds, but we have two really high seconds. Two of those together could push us in the late first. (In terms of value at least). I'd much rather have us keep the seconds than having a late first, more chance to hit on players if we draft more.

I think it's safe to say Patches himself is worth at least a mid first pick. And then, it's not that Patches is the sole reason we make the playoffs, it's that we don't really know where we're heading next year. And if you take out our best goal scorer next year and we don't receive any NHLer back, it boosts the value of our first next year, which could easily end up being a lottery pick again, even with Patches. I would not imagine without him.

So we're giving up the value of 3 first rounders with the possibility of one of them being the biggest mistake we could make for two mid first round picks? Easy, easy no.

 

[Scintillating10]

And yet with the isles publicly pursuing Grubrauer, sources like Friedman and Staple are writing/tweeting the isles are very much in the mix to keep Tavares.

Going to guess he is smart enough to see that goalies like Crawford ( head injury) and Schneider ( hip surgery), make no sense and a goalie like Price comes with an albatross contract.

He is unproven as #1. That will not help sign Tavares

 

[Scintillating10]

11 & 12 carry significant weight. This is a pretty good draft. Isles can sit tight. Or move up infact by packaging the pick to pick in the top 5. I would sit tight, and see how the cards fall.

Would Isles trade both picks for #7?

 

[Klaus3154]

Sure let's ignore the entire statement and just cherry pick to make your narrative sound better.

Montreal gets 2 1sts for Patches 2 2nds and a 1st of their own. They're gonna pay a little extra to keep the 3rd OA since they want 3 top 12 picks this year.

Why wouldn't Vancouver upgrade a 2nd to a 1st if all it costs them is salary cap which they have. It's not like Bobby Ryan is complete crap either, he CAN play.. he's just not worth his contract.

Ottawa getting 3 2nds and patches for someone who only has a year left and ottawa may be forced to trade due to Hoffman drama is pretty much top value. Not to mention they shed themselves of the Bobby Ryan contract as well

So... I'm missing your point. Do you even have one?

My point is Vancouver taking on Bobby Ryan’s contract just to upgrade from a 2nd to a 1st will have Vancouver fans laughing
Another point is if you think Ottawa gets less then what they gave away for Matt Duchene will have Ottawa fans laughing
Third point is I know they overvalue him but you think Montreal will trade Patches and next years 1st which very well could be a top 10 lottery eligible pick for 11oa and 12oa? You are right, I left out they have to pay 2 extra 2nds. Deal is bad even without that part.
Guess my point is while it is difficult to do you have a 4 team trade that is terrible for 3 of those teams.

 

[admiralcadillac]

These threads always degenerate because people can't see how stubborn they're being.

 

[Jester9881]

I will personally lobby Lou Lamoriello to give Montreal the 11th overall if you people would stop trying to trade us Max Pac.

Don't want him, don't need him.

 

[CREW99AW]

He is unproven as #1. That will not help sign Tavares

There is a Dreger report on THIS board, that Lou and Tavares reps are currently in negotiations for an extension.

 

[CREW99AW]

Would Isles trade both picks for #7?

No

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Would Isles trade both picks for #7?

Don't think this is feasible. But if the Canadians wanted to trade #3 for #11 & #12 if the Isles really wanted a player at #3. This would be more likely. Something like #3 & #35 for #11 & #12.

 

[ole ole]

Don't think this is feasible. But if the Canadians wanted to trade #3 for #11 & #12 if the Isles really wanted a player at #3. This would be more likely. Something like #3 & #35 for #11 & #12.

So the Habs give up a sure top line player for a couple of top 6 players.
No thank you. Habs will keep the 3rd OA.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

So the Habs give up a sure top line player for a couple of top 6 players.
No thank you. Habs will keep the 3rd OA.

Not what I said. But I said a day ago, there were some droppers that may make it to #11 and #12. Hughes whom I am very high on for instance. It really depends on what the Isles value. There is certain capital in #11 and #12. In 2012 The Caps drafted Forsberg and Wilson at #11 and #16. Habs drafted Gally. I think we know today, who most teams would take.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Don't think this is feasible. But if the Canadians wanted to trade #3 for #11 & #12 if the Isles really wanted a player at #3. This would be more likely. Something like #3 & #35 for #11 & #12.

The 3rd overall is worth more than 11 & 12.

If we look back at players picked in those spots.

2016:
Dubois vs Jost & Brown

2015:
Strome vs Crouse & Gurianov

2014:
Draisaitl vs Fiala & Perlini

2013:
Drouin vs Morin & Domi

etc.

Players taken at 3rd overall >>>>> 11 & 12th

 

[Habs Halifax]

There is a Dreger report on THIS board, that Lou and Tavares reps are currently in negotiations for an extension.

What's part of the negotiations? Salary and a competitive team. Islanders have a lot of work to do to improve their D and to find a goalie. I can't see this happening before July 1st. But they do have the 11th and 12th picks to use to acquire solid assets Tavares would like to play with. Problem is he may still walk?

I don't see Salary being the problem. I think Lou has his work cut out for him to improve that back end before July 1st.

11th and 12th for Karlsson would be a good start. Then what goalie could they get?

 

[CREW99AW]

What's part of the negotiations? Salary and a competitive team. Islanders have a lot of work to do to improve their D and to find a goalie. I can't see this happening before July 1st. But they do have the 11th and 12th picks to use to acquire solid assets Tavares would like to play with. Problem is he may still walk?

I don't see Salary being the problem. I think Lou has his work cut out for him to improve that back end before July 1st.

11th and 12th for Karlsson would be a good start. Then what goalie could they get?

Tavares and the isles are likely talking 7-8 year extension. Only opposing fans on message boards expect the isles to be a finished product on July 1st, 2018.

According to the press reports, Lou L has spent his time selling Tavares on his vision, the types of additions he is going for. Silly to think he would identify 26 yr old Grubs as #1 on his goalie wishlist, then somehow fail to tell Tavares he is pushing for Grubs.

And I do not think improving the roster means you have to go out and add a D,who will demand a ridiculous contract.
Leddy-Boychuk
?????'Pulock


Get someone durable and strong in his own end of the ice for that 2nd pairing spot.

 

[YoSoyLalo]

The Isles can do better.

Alberta hockey fans know this better than anyone

 

[Habs Halifax]

Tavares and the isles are likely talking 7-8 year extension. Only opposing fans on message boards expect the isles to be a finished product on July 1st, 2018..

OK, so why hasn't he re-signed yet? It's very clear to me he wants to see potential that they can be a contender. That means moves before July 1st. I would be surprised to see Tavares re-sign and no other moves made yet.

Lou is being aggressive now cause he needs to know what Tavares considers as solid moves prior to the draft. This dictates what he does with his 11th and 12th picks IMO. Any smart GM in this situation would realize this situation and Low is a very smart GM. He is pressing right now cause he wants to know what direction he steers the wheels.

This is why you see the reports of contract negotiations. There is obviously discussions happening... it's the 11th hour! When you hear about the reports, usually there is a deal signed shortly after. I think these latest reports are just to confirm daily discussions are happening. Lou is aggressive at this point and he should be

 

[Strait2thecup]

What type of return would New York be looking for?

Would Patches + Chicago 2nd + Montreal 2nd + Lindgren + Petry for the picks and a cap dump (Ladd or Boychuk, you can choose) be enough?

What else would you want added?

Both picks would allow the Habs to draft Zadina at 3, and then two of Veleno/Kotkaniemi/Bouchard/Wahlstrom/Smith at 11 and 12

Islanders bolster their Tavares pitch by adding pieces to win now. Patches is still an elite goal scoring winger and adding offensive depth never hurts. Petry is a phenomenal second pairing guy and helps shore up their back end. Picks and Lindgren more or less to balance out.

Certainly helps the isles in some ways but the value just isn’t there

 

[Shootertooter]

Wow. You WILDLY overrate the 3rd overall.

I think the Isles could do something dumb and draft a goalie at 11 or 12.
I think Zadina at 3 is a significantly higher quality player than anything after #3.
I also think the difference in quality between say #10 and #40 is minimal, making those picks less valuable in comparison to #3.

Just my opinion.

 

[boredmale]

Then what goalie could they get?

My 2 cents is if the Islanders can't trade for a goalie, just go sign Lethonen or Bernier

 

[CREW99AW]

OK, so why hasn't he re-signed yet? It's very clear to me he wants to see potential that they can be a contender. That means moves before July 1st. I would be surprised to see Tavares re-sign and no other moves made yet.

Lou is being aggressive now cause he needs to know what Tavares considers as solid moves prior to the draft. This dictates what he does with his 11th and 12th picks IMO. Any smart GM in this situation would realize this situation and Low is a very smart GM. He is pressing right now cause he wants to know what direction he steers the wheels.

This is why you see the reports of contract negotiations. There is obviously discussions happening... it's the 11th hour! When you hear about the reports, usually there is a deal signed shortly after. I think these latest reports are just to confirm daily discussions are happening. Lou is aggressive at this point and he should be

How long has Lou been GM? Gee WHY was he not able to extend Tavares on day 1, when Lou was hired

And btw,nowhere in my post have I suggested the nyi will not make trades or signings. Several press reports have linked the isles to Grubs and Kovalchuk.
I am sure there are D Lou is looking at.

 

[CREW99AW]

I think the Isles could do something dumb and draft a goalie at 11 or 12.
I think Zadina at 3 is a significantly higher quality player than anything after #3.
I also think the difference in quality between say #10 and #40 is minimal, making those picks less valuable in comparison to #3.

Just my opinion.

Isles have the rights to 22 yr old Sorokin,one of the best goalie prospects in the world. He has 2 yrs left on his deal.

They also have Soderstrom coming over to play in NA for next season. Wow, you are really not very informed about the nyi,a team you insist on commenting on.

 

[CREW99AW]

My 2 cents is if the Islanders can't trade for a goalie, just go sign Lethonen or Bernier

Be interesting to see what Lou's plan B is.

 

[Shootertooter]

Wow, you are really not very informed about the nyi,a team you insist on commenting on.

Your snarky rude personal attack doesn't give your post more weight, in fact your inability to conduct yourself as an adult and have a constructive discussion gives it less credibility.

 

[Mackiaveli]

22 yr old Sorokin,one of the best goalie prospects in the world.

who is more than likely not coming over from Russia ever. If he would at all, it would be in two years as a 25 year old. In that time, he could suffer multiple injuries, he could magically regress, he could magically still be the best player.

Lou's pitch to Tavares can't be "hey, for the most important position, we're going to rely on a career backup for the next two years while we hope Sorokin comes over from Russia in two years" --- Islanders will not win a cup with any goaltender available on the market today.

They also have Soderstrom coming over to play in NA for next season.

Had a great 2016/2017 season

Had an average at best 2017/2018 season.

He did this in the SHL, which is at best the 3rd most competitive League (behind NHL/KHL)

Kid is not the solution, he is your backup or AHL goaltender.

Wow, you are really not very informed about the nyi,a team you insist on commenting on.

You actually have less of an idea as to what you're talking about than some other people; not necessarily about the Islanders, but clearly about the NHL in general if you think that those two goaltenders are the clear solution to the Islanders goaltending problems.

Then we get to be reminded of the fact that your defensive group is abysmal other than Leddy and Pulock. You do have Aho and Toews who have some great potential, but again, they won't be ready to be top 4 guys in the NHL for a few years. Your picks this year (likely defensemen) won't be ready for 2-3 years either.

The truth is, if Tavares is resigning, it's because Lou is going to make trades to make the team better. You don't need a top 6C (Tavares/Barzal) and your options of upgrading offensively are limited (Because of Ladd/Clutterbucks contracts) without giving up the space and ability to upgrade behind the blue line.

Islanders need to move their picks for immediate defensive help. No team is moving a starting goaltender, so they need to take a chance on Grubauer (a la Talbot) by moving a 2nd, and they need to move Ladd and Clutterbucks contracts to free up cap space.

Ho-Sang/Eberle/Bellows/Lee/Bailey/Beauvillier should be the islanders top 9 wingers.

Who you want to trade for is your decision and opinion, but there's no question trades NEED to happen.

 

[CREW99AW]

Your snarky rude personal attack doesn't give your post more weight, in fact your inability to conduct yourself as an adult and have a constructive discussion gives it less credibility.

My response if fine. Would be nice if Habs fans could simply accept " nah, doesn't work for the nyi" instead of continuong to make uniformed comments about the nyi organization.