Is this the most optimistic you've been about the Canucks since 2011?

Is this the most optimistic you've been about the Canucks since 2011?

  • Yes

    Votes: 62 49.6%
  • No

    Votes: 63 50.4%

  • Total voters
    125

Ryan Miller*

Registered User
Jan 13, 2017
1,079
322
Actually it does involve press credentials because the Canucks don't just give press credentials to anyone.
Lol you simply refuse to answer the question: why has this credible source never broken a single story? Maybe because it dismantles your whole point? Don't reply to this with more of your empty rhetoric unless you answer the question.
 

Paulinvancouver

Gas station in Carbondale did not have fresh yams!
Dec 19, 2015
4,001
1,024
I like what Travis Green has brought out in this team. I still they they will fall back in Dec / Jan and probably come up short of the playoffs, but that is a far cry from the train wreck of Willie Desjardins.
most likely, yep. But theyve sure been fun to watch for the games Ive been able to get to.
 

y2kcanucks

Le Sex God
Aug 3, 2006
71,229
10,319
Surrey, BC
Lol you simply refuse to answer the question: why has this credible source never broken a single story? Maybe because it dismantles your whole point? Don't reply to this with more of your empty rhetoric unless you answer the question.

It doesn't dismantle anything. You're trying to say they aren't credible because they haven't broken a story? That doesn't mean they aren't credible. They've been primarily an analytics based publication. But they came across an interesting rumour from a source within the Canucks organization and put it to print.

If you're suggesting that they are just making rumours up, then please answer why the Canucks would give press credentials to a publication that fabricates rumours.
 

Shareefruck

Registered User
Apr 2, 2005
28,946
3,678
Vancouver, BC
Yup, but you need to recognize it's a very simplistic move that you're pulling. You're shifting the object of analysis from a player's quality/performance, which generally can be measured in fairly objective terms through a combination of the eye test and stats, to a shifting, imaginary "context" that you have to invent in your head.

Pretty much what was done with the Granlund trade, where rather than directly comparing the performance/quality of Granlund and Shinkaruk, a contingent of posters began inventing a "context" to the deal, in which Shinkaruk was "worth" in their opinion a lot more than Granlund—which sure, you can argue, but it's your opinion at the end of the day; you will never know how a player is valued league-wide unless you're in the phone calls, though some posters here simply can't accept this lack of access, and act as if they can get into those phone calls through pure reason and critical analysis, which as someone coming from a field that does this as their job, is a laughable over-estimation of their intellectual powers, which are probably stifled in real life, so they take it out on this board, in extended intellectual self-pleasuring which nobody except them and their devoted followers actually read, but build a little, pathetic to outsiders, bubble in which they are "critical" compared to the average fan. It is amusing sometimes though.
It's not a shift if both factors always mattered from the beginning. At the time of the Miller signing, most of the people who were critical of the signing were more critical of the purpose/context/reasoning behind the signing than they were about whether or not he would be a strong performer-- I even recall posters including the caveat "He might perform well, but it's still a stupid signing because...". Just because the context is not easily quantifiable, doesn't mean its importance is fabricated and should be disregarded in the argument in favor of things that are more objectively measurable but don't actually fully address/represent what's being asked.

The Miller signing didn't really require anybody to have knowledge about what was going on behind the scenes or anything that is beyond a fan's intellectual capacities. They're opinions, but opinions can still be argued and reasoned critically. There's certainly more of a gray area with the Granlund trade because we can only make comparisons and assumptions about a player's value until they're traded, and we can't know more about that than the people making the calls, that's true. Personally, while I disliked the trade due to the context (and the principle behind trading unproven prospects for tested but soon to expire prospects, even if they're a similar age) and would logically argue with others about whether or not Granlund was an effective player, I don't think I actually dismissed anybody who disagreed about whether or not Shinkaruk could fetch more at the time, I just had that subjective skepticism myself and expressed why I had doubts about that.

The rest of this response just sounds like you're making baseless narrative leaps about the motivations of posters purely for the sake of being petty, insulting, and condescending.
 
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Shareefruck

Registered User
Apr 2, 2005
28,946
3,678
Vancouver, BC
Regarding the credibility argument, the CanucksArmy guys have not proven themselves to be non-credible, nor have they really done anything to be considered credible. The fact that organization recognizes them as legitimate is fairly meaningless.

The only thing that matters is that they have a known/size-able journalistic-based reputation that's at stake which prevents them from spewing out random nonsense without consequence, and they haven't yet tainted that reputation with fabrications. It should be taken with a grain of salt, but they certainly have more reason to be accountable than the average amateur/fan.
 
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y2kcanucks

Le Sex God
Aug 3, 2006
71,229
10,319
Surrey, BC
Regarding the credibility argument, the CanucksArmy guys have not proven themselves to be non-credible, nor have they really done anything to be considered credible. The fact that organization recognizes them as legitimate is fairly meaningless.

The only thing that matters is that they have a known/size-able journalistic-based reputation that's at stake which prevents them from spewing out random nonsense without consequence, and they haven't yet tainted that reputation with fabrications. It should be taken with a grain of salt, but they certain have more reason to be accountable than the average amateur/fan.

I don't know that I would say it's meaningless that the organization recognizes them as legitimate. There's a limited number of press passes that the Canucks give out. The fact that they have given out passes to Canucks Army suggests that they most certainly are legitimate and credible. Why would they give out press passes to a publication that fabricates rumours? You don't see Eklund getting press passes to any games, for example.
 

Shareefruck

Registered User
Apr 2, 2005
28,946
3,678
Vancouver, BC
I don't know that I would say it's meaningless that the organization recognizes them as legitimate. There's a limited number of press passes that the Canucks give out. The fact that they have given out passes to Canucks Army suggests that they most certainly are legitimate and credible. Why would they give out press passes to a publication that fabricates rumours? You don't see Eklund getting press passes to any games, for example.
Whether or not something is legitimately recognized by an organization doesn't necessarily have anything to do with whether or not it's credible information, though. They haven't built up a reputation for being credible, nor have they built up a reputation for being non-credible. They have more at stake if they lie because they're a popular and somewhat trusted source of hockey analysis/knowledge, and their brand would be compromised if they're caught doing something like that, and that's what separates their word from an random fan/amateur, but that would be true whether the organization recognized/gave them press passes or disowned them.

And there are plenty of media personality recognized by the organization that aren't very credible sources and have flimsy journalistic integrity at best, anyways.
 

y2kcanucks

Le Sex God
Aug 3, 2006
71,229
10,319
Surrey, BC
Whether or not something is legitimately recognized by an organization doesn't necessarily have anything to do with whether or not it's credible information, though. They haven't built up a reputation for being credible, nor have they built up a reputation for being non-credible. They have more at stake if they lie because they're a popular and somewhat trusted source of hockey analysis/knowledge, and their brand would be compromised if they're caught doing something like that, but that would be true whether the organization recognized/gave them press passes or disowned them.

I don't know that they haven't built up a reputation of being credible. Again, the Canucks aren't going to just give out press passes to an organization that doesn't have some kind of reputation. You or I couldn't just start a Canucks blog and expect to get a press pass.
 

Shareefruck

Registered User
Apr 2, 2005
28,946
3,678
Vancouver, BC
I don't know that they haven't built up a reputation of being credible. Again, the Canucks aren't going to just give out press passes to an organization that doesn't have some kind of reputation. You or I couldn't just start a Canucks blog and expect to get a press pass.
If you or I started a Canucks blog that became widely popular, is well-considered, and has the ear of the fans, they might.

I agree that having press passes is proof that they have access, but all it really says in terms of credibility is that they haven't spouted off nonsense about the organization yet. And we already know that, because they generally don't spout anything about the organization.

They would be exactly as credible as they are now if they were what they were without the blessing of the organization, IMO.
 

y2kcanucks

Le Sex God
Aug 3, 2006
71,229
10,319
Surrey, BC
If you or I started a Canucks blog that became widely popular and well-considered by fans, they might.

I agree that having press passes is proof that they have access, but all it really says in terms of credibility is that they haven't spouted off nonsense about the organization yet. And we already know that, because they generally don't spout anything about the organization.

Right. And not spouting off nonsense against the organization means they've developed a reputation for being pretty credible. They don't make things up about the team. So when a rumour like this is posted by them it suggests that they aren't making it up.

Keep in mind, this was posted in November 2016. It's been a full year since they came out with that revelation, and in that year they have continued to have access to the Canucks and have grown their presence on TSN1040.
 

Shareefruck

Registered User
Apr 2, 2005
28,946
3,678
Vancouver, BC
Right. And not spouting off nonsense against the organization means they've developed a reputation for being pretty credible. They don't make things up about the team. So when a rumour like this is posted by them it suggests that they aren't making it up.

Keep in mind, this was posted in November 2016. It's been a full year since they came out with that revelation, and in that year they have continued to have access to the Canucks and have grown their presence on TSN1040.
That first bit is very misleading because they haven't given any information to be credible or non-credible about in the first place. It can't be implied that they likely aren't making something up on the basis that it hasn't happened before because they haven't even proposed anything before.

It shows that they're more credible than a person with a history of lying, sure, but that would be equally true of Canucks Army even if they were never endorsed by the organization...... because they don't peddle in rumors (as far as I know) and have never suggested anything that could be a lie or a truth in the first place. We already know that. It's the same reputation, and the same degree of credibility, with or without the press passes.

That second point is fair, though. The organization has not disowned them after giving the rumor. That's something.
 
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Ryan Miller*

Registered User
Jan 13, 2017
1,079
322
I am surprised as the both of you that the Canucks are not keeping up on the writing of Jackson McDonald.
 

Shareefruck

Registered User
Apr 2, 2005
28,946
3,678
Vancouver, BC
That's another valid point, I suppose. It's not a rumor that has generated enough buzz that you would expect a reaction from the organization either way. Has it? I mean, it's the first time I've heard about it.

But he's credible in the sense that he's a recognized journalist who's been in the business for years, doesn't have a history of lying and whose reputation is on the line if he does. That's significantly more credibility than a random amateur.
 
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Dab

Registered User
Apr 17, 2017
3,193
3,001
I can’t believe it’s that controversial a statement? When have y’all been more optimistic? When we got swept?
 

2011 still hurts

imagine posting on a hockey forum
Feb 10, 2016
1,293
1,468
As much as it was a lot more rational to be optimistic about the team in 2012 and 2013 then it is right now, the 2011 finals did a psychological number on a lot of Canucks fans, that sort of loss makes it hard to be optimistic again even if your team wins the Presidents trophy the very next year.

For me I needed years for genuine optimism to materialize in my head regarding the Canucks, assuming it was like that for many people.

So yes, with Petersson, Demko and Boeaser this is the most *excited* I've been to tune into a Canucks game since the 2011 post-season.

Even still, with our management and ownership one can only be cautiously optimistic, unfortunately.
 

2011 still hurts

imagine posting on a hockey forum
Feb 10, 2016
1,293
1,468
>OP posts: Is this the most excited you've been since 2011?
>conversation about the value of Miller is an ongoing dialogue ITT

lads please
 

Shareefruck

Registered User
Apr 2, 2005
28,946
3,678
Vancouver, BC
I get that there's a need for organization on the part of mods, and I don't argue with the housekeeping of it, but I'll never understand the attitude posters have in finding it stupid or childish for topics to go off on related tangents. I find that to be a pretty organic and natural progression, I'm always interested when it happens, and as a reader of message boards, I find it unfortunate the way it always gets nipped at the bud just as it's beginning to get somewhere.

Bit of an unpopular opinion.
 

racerjoe

Registered User
Jun 3, 2012
12,181
5,875
Vancouver
I get that there's a need for organization on the part of mods, and I don't argue with the housekeeping of it, but I'll never understand the attitude posters have in finding it stupid or childish for topics to go off on related tangents. I find that to be a pretty organic and natural progression, I'm always interested when it happens, and as a reader of message boards, I find it unfortunate the way it always gets nipped at the bud just as it's beginning to get somewhere.

Depends on the tangent. There can be some great conversation... or can be some people just trolling. There have been many threads that do go off topic that I have really liked though.
 

2011 still hurts

imagine posting on a hockey forum
Feb 10, 2016
1,293
1,468
I get that there's a need for organization on the part of mods, and I don't argue with the housekeeping of it, but I'll never understand the attitude posters have in finding it stupid or childish for topics to go off on related tangents. I find that to be a pretty organic and natural progression, I'm always interested when it happens, and as a reader of message boards, I find it unfortunate the way it always gets nipped at the bud just as it's beginning to get somewhere.

Bit of an unpopular opinion.
I actually agree to some extent and enjoy some off topic tangents, it's just when someone clicks on this thread because they found the original topic intriguing it's somewhat off putting when the last few pages of discussion are revolving around something that's not really that relevant.
 

sting101

Registered User
Feb 8, 2012
15,881
14,740
Canucks Army is credible, so yes the rumour exists whether you like it or not.
That article said Clendening for Forsling was a good trade. Do you agree with that too?

Do you really believe that Doug Wilson would give up the same deal Gillis got for a top5 goalie at 27 for a 35 yr old mid level keeper?
 

y2kcanucks

Le Sex God
Aug 3, 2006
71,229
10,319
Surrey, BC
That article said Clendening for Forsling was a good trade. Do you agree with that too?

Do you really believe that Doug Wilson would give up the same deal Gillis got for a top5 goalie at 27 for a 35 yr old mid level keeper?

That article talked about the process behind it and mentioned the trade didn't work out.

Yes, I do believe that deal was on the table because I have no reason not to. I think it's a bad deal but GM's have been known to make bad deals all the time.
 

Zhaolo

Registered User
Aug 17, 2017
12
0
From the internet that rumor Miller for 1st was true, sadly just like the Bieksa to SJ deal, it didn't go through.

DW: Sharks need a number 1 goalie, 1st is up for grabs.
JB: Interested in Miller?
DW: Maybe, let me get back to you.
CanucksArmy: JB, any trade in the works?
JB: Maybe, talking to SJ as they're looking for a starter and their 1st is up for grabs.
CanucksArmy: Heard there's rumbling Miller for SJ 1st in the works.
DW: Jim, we got the young goalie we been after for few years, no can do to work out a deal.
 

racerjoe

Registered User
Jun 3, 2012
12,181
5,875
Vancouver
From the internet that rumor Miller for 1st was true, sadly just like the Bieksa to SJ deal, it didn't go through.

DW: Sharks need a number 1 goalie, 1st is up for grabs.
JB: Interested in Miller?
DW: Maybe, let me get back to you.
CanucksArmy: JB, any trade in the works?
JB: Maybe, talking to SJ as they're looking for a starter and their 1st is up for grabs.
CanucksArmy: Heard there's rumbling Miller for SJ 1st in the works.
DW: Jim, we got the young goalie we been after for few years, no can do to work out a deal.


Except that is not the order we are hearing things happening. What the report says it was this

DW: We want miller and will give you the 9th.
JB: No can do we will ride him to the playoffs baby!
DW: ok
CA:Wait you were offered a 1st?
JB: Yep turned that terrible down!
DW: He drafts using the pick that was offered.
DW: Then the next day trades for a young goalie.
 

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