Is this the end of Zetterberg?

[odin1981]

I don't know that wear and tear will be an out for allowing a 38-year-old's cap hit to expire.
Especially when the player has said that his contract was designed to "fool the system."

If wear and tear was enough, I'm sure Hossa could have pointed to a shoulder issue or knee issue.

The damage to Kronwall's knee requiring 2-3 surgeries plus lack of cartilage and the addition of scar tissue seal his status when he needs to go on.

For Z he has 2 surgeries on his back. I unaware of if they where in the same spot but put it this way for normal people you have just 1 back surgery and you can never be the same let alone 2 but 12+ years of wear and tear throughout his career.

To worry about either contract is just folly. I get disability from the va and while I haven't had surgery I get rated for my knees and we as fans have all seen first hand how Kronners speed is basically nonexistent anymore. To think that either player if they where given a actual accurate physical and pass is nonexistent. The only reason they still get cleared to play now is because they say they want to continue to play and the team has a doctor that allows there wishes to continue.

 

[Redder Winger]

The damage to Kronwall's knee requiring 2-3 surgeries plus lack of cartilage and the addition of scar tissue seal his status when he needs to go on.

For Z he has 2 surgeries on his back. I unaware of if they where in the same spot but put it this way for normal people you have just 1 back surgery and you can never be the same let alone 2 but 12+ years of wear and tear throughout his career.

To worry about either contract is just folly. I get disability from the va and while I haven't had surgery I get rated for my knees and we as fans have all seen first hand how Kronners speed is basically nonexistent anymore. To think that either player if they where given a actual accurate physical and pass is nonexistent. The only reason they still get cleared to play now is because they say they want to continue to play and the team has a doctor that allows there wishes to continue.

Never being the same again is not the same as injury.

 

[odin1981]

Never being the same again is not the same as injury.

Do you even have the slightest understanding of what happens when you tear a muscle, slip a disc, get a screw inserted into a vertebrate, or go under a knife to repair either of said body parts? Or have a occupation such as a professional athlete with 10+ years in a pro league of football (usa) or hockey where the wear and tear of it grinds you down to the bone both literally and figuratively?

 

[kliq]

Do you even have the slightest understanding of what happens when you tear a muscle, slip a disc, get a screw inserted into a vertebrate, or go under a knife to repair either of said body parts? Or have a occupation such as a professional athlete with 10+ years in a pro league of football (usa) or hockey where the wear and tear of it grinds you down to the bone both literally and figuratively?

You're right, and I dont think most fans are worried. Both players had major injuries that led them to where they are today. I would put money on it that both have been told they should hang it up now, but refuse to and are wanting to play through it. When the time comes that they physically can't do it anymore at the NHL level, I highly doubt they will be told "well, the injury actually happened years ago, so it doesn't count now". To go on LTIR, a doctor needs to assess the player, and if the doctor deems the player is medically unfit to play, they are eligible.

 

[HIFE]

The newest from Kulfan on Kronwall: Durability not enough for Red Wings’ Niklas Kronwall

"But the fact Kronwall has been able to play as much as he has this season, plus the desire to fulfill his contract, makes it likely Kronwall will return next season."

“Right now all our focus is on what we we can do right now,” Kronwall said. “We’ll make the most of it this year and we’ll take it from there.”

This team is insane.

 

[Winger98]

The newest from Kulfan on Kronwall: Durability not enough for Red Wings’ Niklas Kronwall

"But the fact Kronwall has been able to play as much as he has this season, plus the desire to fulfill his contract, makes it likely Kronwall will return next season."

“Right now all our focus is on what we we can do right now,” Kronwall said. “We’ll make the most of it this year and we’ll take it from there.”

This team is insane.

I don't know why Kronwall looking to fulfill his contract is any real surprise. These guys play hockey for more than just a paycheck, and wanting to hold up their end of the bargain is actually a pretty honorable thing that not every star hockey play manages to do.

 

[HIFE]

I don't know why Kronwall looking to fulfill his contract is any real surprise. These guys play hockey for more than just a paycheck, and wanting to hold up their end of the bargain is actually a pretty honorable thing that not every star hockey play manages to do.

Having watched the majority of his career I find it shocking how debilitated he's become, even more so that he still wants to drag himself onto the ice. I respect his determination but running with a guy this hobbled is getting weird. It's like a 70 year old applying for a roofing crew- yeah man we know you're tough but there's a time to call it quits.

Again the sad part is we barely have a better replacement but it has to be encouraged.

 

[Nut Upstrom]

I don't know why Kronwall looking to fulfill his contract is any real surprise. These guys play hockey for more than just a paycheck, and wanting to hold up their end of the bargain is actually a pretty honorable thing that not every star hockey play manages to do.

The notion that Kronwall was going to stop playing and LTIR himself next season has always been wishful thinking. The same idea materialized before this season. If he can play, he's going to play, I'm not sure why the LTIR myth seems to be so strong around these parts. Considering he's played such a large percentage of our games this year, shows that he likely feels he's healthy enough to suit up next season.

 

[Hatter of the Beach]

So, does anyone know if the cap loophole of players retiring before their contract ended not counting against the cap if they signed the contract before the age of 35 still exists? I know it was removed retroactively in the new CBA, but was wondering if it ever got changed back. If not, what are our options for Z if he decides to hang them up. LTIRetired, or is Franzen already eating up that allowance?

 

[Frk It]

So, does anyone know if the cap loophole of players retiring before their contract ended not counting against the cap if they signed the contract before the age of 35 still exists? I know it was removed retroactively in the new CBA, but was wondering if it ever got changed back. If not, what are our options for Z if he decides to hang them up. LTIRetired, or is Franzen already eating up that allowance?

LTIR him or you are on the hook for his caphit for the remaining years. Those are your only options with deals that are subject to recapture.

 

[Hatter of the Beach]

LTIR him or you are on the hook for his caphit for the remaining years. Those are your only options with deals that are subject to recapture.

We are only allowed two, right?

 

[Frk It]

We are only allowed two, right?

I don't know if there is a limitation to how many players, or how much $ you can put on LTIR. I just know the more $ you put on LTIR the harder it becomes to navigate the Cap.

 

[Redder Winger]

The notion that Kronwall was going to stop playing and LTIR himself next season has always been wishful thinking. The same idea materialized before this season. If he can play, he's going to play, I'm not sure why the LTIR myth seems to be so strong around these parts. Considering he's played such a large percentage of our games this year, shows that he likely feels he's healthy enough to suit up next season.

The myth is strong because Detroit's own captain said nobody expect Zetterberg to keep playing at the end of the contract. That the contract was structured to "fool the system."

 

[Nut Upstrom]

So he said what everybody already knew.

Edit: And I'd say 'work' the system, not fool it.

 

[Redder Winger]

So he said what everybody already knew.

Edit: And I'd say 'work' the system, not fool it.

Yep.
But he said it.
Others did not.
And who knows how things get changed in translation, but most stories I've seen use the phrase "fool the system."

 

[Frk It]

He stated the obvious. NHL already punished it with recapture, and also employed a player who was still under contract. They're not gonna do shit about it.

 

[Nut Upstrom]

Yep.
But he said it.
Others did not.
And who knows how things get changed in translation, but most stories I've seen use the phrase "fool the system."

Okay, so...? He did say it, and that matters why? It's going to turn the league's bright spotlight on our team now and drag us down into the pits of cap hell? Are you suggesting that it's going to keep Kronwall from LTIRing himself?

To me, working the system is the more appropriate phrasing, their editors should have recognized that.

 

[Hammettf2b]

We are only allowed two, right?

3

 

[ShelbyZ]

Incorrect... unless Hank mysteriously gets hurt in the future and meets the following criteria:

"15.6 Any Player who becomes disabled during Training Camp, or who reports to Training
Camp disabled as a result of a hockey related injury incurred during the off-season, and who has
qualified during the preceding season, including Playoffs, for at least fifty (50) games credit for
the purposes of the Pension Plan or is on a one-way SPC, shall receive his Paragraph 1 NHL
Salary and Signing Bonus until he receives appropriate medical clearance."


Assuming that the Wings would be dangerously close to circumvention if they attempt to burry Hamk, I added their hits.

$3.95
+
$6.08
__________
$10.03 million

I moved the decimal one too far last post, so the cap would need to be $100.3 million to totally hide both of them. People think the LTIR is some magical beast that fixes everything... it isn't.

The SOIR cant help the Wings here, not now, not without something catastrophic happening to Hank this next offseason.

The key word there is "totally". Depending on what the max increases to for next season, they'd be short around $2M they could hypothetically not spend if they take advantage of the 10% overage, so it wouldn't be that big of a deal. There's a few ways that they can get around some of it. If they plan on having Svechnikov and Rasmussen on the NHL roster next season, Svechnikovs offseason cap hit will end up around $150k this summer, while Rasmussens will be $0, before they jump to $863k and $925k respectively at the start of the regular season. There's most of that $2M they had to hold back on right there. They could also wait to sign a PTO or UFA until the start of the regular season.

 

[kliq]

We are only allowed two, right?

Also, we always have the ability to trade a contract like Franzen's. He's getting paid 1mil/year but has a cap hit for 4mil.

A team trying to hit the cap floor should be interested (same thing that happened with Pronger's contract). Or if another team has a player with say 1 year left but high salary also on LTIR, we could trade Franzen's contract for it, so after this upcoming season we are off the hook. But you only make a trade like that if you need to.

 

[StargateSG1]

T

The myth is strong because Detroit's own captain said nobody expect Zetterberg to keep playing at the end of the contract. That the contract was structured to "fool the system."

They put a rule in as a result of this deal, for crying out loud.
I bet Bettman watches it like a hawk and if they even attempt to circumvent the CBA again with imaginary LTIR, they might get a pick taken away.

 

[Ezekial]

After Pronger they can go f*** themselves if they want a pick.

 

[TheRatPoisoner]

T

They put a rule in as a result of this deal, for crying out loud.
I bet Bettman watches it like a hawk and if they even attempt to circumvent the CBA again with imaginary LTIR, they might get a pick taken away.

Gary Bettman's a lawyer and likely understands the massive negligence lawsuit that would ensue in the event that a player gets injured after the NHL insists they're healthy enough to play, despite the player expressing concerns otherwise.

But that's assuming that the league actually cares about enforcing this, which they don't -- just look at the Lupul situation.

 

[StargateSG1]

Gary Bettman's a lawyer and likely understands the massive negligence lawsuit that would ensue in the event that a player gets injured after the NHL insists they're healthy enough to play, despite the player expressing concerns otherwise.

But that's assuming that the league actually cares about enforcing this, which they don't -- just look at the Lupul situation.

Yet Hossa went through an evaluation by the independent physician.

 

[kliq]

T

They put a rule in as a result of this deal, for crying out loud.
I bet Bettman watches it like a hawk and if they even attempt to circumvent the CBA again with imaginary LTIR, they might get a pick taken away.

I wish Z didnt do that interview, but if he has an NHL doctor tell him he shouldn't be playing anymore, I cant see how the Wings can be punished.

There are two types of injuries, acute injuries, and chronic injuries.

An acute injury is something that happens in a moment (ie. Steve Moore).

A chronic injury is something that slowly progresses worse over time. Z's back injury from my understanding is a chronic injury, and as it gets worse it would qualify for LTIR.

Of course he can't just say "I'm hurt, put me on LTIR", they will require tests to be done.