Is this the end of Zetterberg?

[Redder Winger]

Recapture penalty or not, I don't see is as a huge problem.

Cap has gone up 25 million since those days the Z deal was done. As a contender that would matter much, but for us? Meaningless for a rebuilding team.

If you want to see positives on that 5M penalty, at least it will push our management to load the roster with some extra cheaper ELCs, which will fasten up the youth movement.

Also, the roster will be worse, because the new wave of kids are still on a learning process. And we will finally drop on the bottom3 of the league and will get the highest probablities to win those 2019, 2020 or 2021 draft lotteries.

We are trending up proably near of that 2020-21 season. That could also be a lockout season.

We'll see how meaningless a recapture penalty is next summer, if Karlsson, Doughty and OEL hit the market.

 

[Frk It]

We'll see how meaningless a recapture penalty is next summer, if Karlsson, Doughty and OEL hit the market.

Recapture was a retroactive punishment for deals that circumvented the old CBA. So it would not pertain or apply to any of those players that are getting new deals. It is also why they reduced the max length of contracts.

 

[Redder Winger]

Recapture was a retroactive punishment for deals that circumvented the old CBA. So it would not pertain or apply to any of those players that are getting new deals. It is also why they reduced the max length of contracts.

What I mean is, Z's recapture penalty, if there is one, will impact our ability to sign a UFA D.

 

[Frk It]

What I mean is, Z's recapture penalty, if there is one, will impact our ability to sign a UFA D.

Ohhhh. Got ya. I don't really think we have any appeal to any of those guys anyways.

 

[Redder Winger]

Ohhhh. Got ya. I don't really think we have any appeal to any of those guys anyways.

$$$
Other than that.
Doughty - close to Toronto.
OEL - Rich swedish history maybe?
Karlsson - Ditto.
Ellis - Played junior across the river.

 

[BinCookin]

Ohhhh. Got ya. I don't really think we have any appeal to any of those guys anyways.

Only way we sign on of those guys is to overpay by 2-3 Mil

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Ohhhh. Got ya. I don't really think we have any appeal to any of those guys anyways.

Disagree with Ekman-Larsson he grew up a diehard Red Wings fan, Nick Lidstrom was his idol. Original 6 team new arena i can definitely see Detroit appealing to Ekman-Larsson especially if Detroit throws a boatload of money his way. If Holland is still GM i can definitely see him going after Oliver Ekman-Larsson next summer. Especially if by a miracle we draft Rasmus Dahlin.

 

[Hammettf2b]

Disagree with Ekman-Larsson he grew up a diehard Red Wings fan, Nick Lidstrom was his idol. Original 6 team new arena i can definitely see Detroit appealing to Ekman-Larsson especially if Detroit throws a boatload of money his way. If Holland is still GM i can definitely see him going after Oliver Ekman-Larsson next summer. Especially if by a miracle we draft Rasmus Dahlin.

unless we get major help elsewhere, it would be a waste imo. OEL helps keep the team mediocre. If we were able to draft Dahlin, thats another story.

 

[Henkka]

Meh. Big UFAs won't look towards Detroit until we have drafted ourselves attractive again.

It will need luck in the lottery or 2-3 years in the basement.

 

[HIFE]

unless we get major help elsewhere, it would be a waste imo. OEL helps keep the team mediocre. If we were able to draft Dahlin, thats another story.

With or without Dahlin there's still a balance to strive for. It is funny a number fans think we should tank... but in the same sentence say they'd love to grab up Tavares, OEL, or Karlsson. The logic is somewhat contradictory. Again it's a fine line- and we know the organization is trying to walk it. The Wings won't let the team openly tank so that has to factor into the discussion. For as pathetic as the last 2 seasons have been I wouldn't mind forcing ourselves to be the worst overall by far, with a guaranteed top 4 pick, but management would never.

The sentiment here seems to be that you can't let a franchise player slip through your fingers in the name of a draft position or two.

 

[kliq]

What I mean is, Z's recapture penalty, if there is one, will impact our ability to sign a UFA D.

I'm not even worried about the recapture penalty. With Zetterberg's chronic back issues, and with the LTIR bar being as low as it is, I'm sure things will work themselves out.

Obviously you can't just throw someone on LTIR, but if Z has medical history saying he has chronic back problems and says its hurts to play as he ages, I dont see the NHL saying no to it. Plus, if it goes down this way, he still gets paid 1mil per year. If he retires, I believe he gives up all remaining salary.

 

[HIFE]

Meh. Big UFAs won't look towards Detroit until we have drafted ourselves attractive again.

It will need luck in the lottery or 2-3 years in the basement.

You're probably right but although not huge, UFA's Green and Nielsen must have had a few other options and they chose Detroit. There's got to be more behind the scenes than the wish to be on contender. A wife's sister lives here or they want a pressure free environment, could be a lot of things. And like Redder said, $$$ talks.

I wouldn't rule out the Wings going to any length to bring a big name if it meant more buzz and ticket sales.

 

[Hammettf2b]

With or without Dahlin there's still a balance to strive for. It is funny a number fans think we should tank... but in the same sentence say they'd love to grab up Tavares, OEL, or Karlsson. The logic is somewhat contradictory. Again it's a fine line- and we know the organization is trying to walk it. The Wings won't let the team openly tank so that has to factor into the discussion. For as pathetic as the last 2 seasons have been I wouldn't mind forcing ourselves to be the worst overall by far, with a guaranteed top 4 pick, but management would never.

The sentiment here seems to be that you can't let a franchise player slip through your fingers in the name of a draft position or two.

I just think its pretty pointless in going after a big name when we have money tied up in players like Abby/Helm/Nielsen/Big E ect... Once those contracts are gone, then I wouldn't mind going for a big name player.

 

[Henkka]

I just think its pretty pointless in going after a big name when we have money tied up in players like Abby/Helm/Nielsen/Big E ect... Once those contracts are gone, then I wouldn't mind going for a big name player.

Indeed. That's also the timeline we have drafted high for multiple years.

 

[StargateSG1]

Ya no worries, and you are correct. There has to be a legit medical issue, that is backed up by a doctor. The Hossa thing put the bar pretty low, but there still is a bar.

Hossa was allegedly evaluated by the outside physician, to confirm the diagnosis.

 

[TheRatPoisoner]

Doubt they enforce Zetterberg's recapture. If he decides to hang em' up before his contract is over, they'll say he has a bad back, he'll LTIRetire, and that'll be that.

 

[Winger98]

I just think its pretty pointless in going after a big name when we have money tied up in players like Abby/Helm/Nielsen/Big E ect... Once those contracts are gone, then I wouldn't mind going for a big name player.

The problem is we likely end up waiting for something that doesn't happen. Taveras hitting the market would be an anomaly compared with what usually happens with star players. And we haven't seen guys like Doughty, Karlsson, OEL, etc. hit the market either. It's probably far more likely that some or all of them are traded to new teams at some point next season (or even this summer) that can get a deal worked out than that they hit the open market.

I think if a guy like Taveras or Karlsson hit the open market we have to at least put a bid in. We might not win but the likelihood of getting similar players through the draft or free agency or fluke inter-dimensional travel is so low. If we can get a top5 at his position type guy I think we should do it. A 27 year old Taveras or Karlsson are guys we can build around for another 5-8 years. There's a very good chance we won't do better through the draft.

 

[Redder Winger]

The problem is we likely end up waiting for something that doesn't happen. Taveras hitting the market would be an anomaly compared with what usually happens with star players. And we haven't seen guys like Doughty, Karlsson, OEL, etc. hit the market either. It's probably far more likely that some or all of them are traded to new teams at some point next season (or even this summer) that can get a deal worked out than that they hit the open market.

I think if a guy like Taveras or Karlsson hit the open market we have to at least put a bid in. We might not win but the likelihood of getting similar players through the draft or free agency or fluke inter-dimensional travel is so low. If we can get a top5 at his position type guy I think we should do it. A 27 year old Taveras or Karlsson are guys we can build around for another 5-8 years. There's a very good chance we won't do better through the draft.

If you were Detroit's GM, would you trade a 3rd round pick for Tavares before the draft? With a condition that you'll trade them another 2nd if he signs?

If the Islanders accepted, what would you offer Tavares to get him to stay.
You can now offer 8 years.

So, let's say you get him to sign at 8 years, $12M.

Would you trade Mantha, and your second first round pick (18), Rasmussen, Nyquist and a conditional first (19) for Karlsson and Ryan?

You'd have this to start the season:
Zetterberg- Tavares Bertuzzi
Athanasiou-Larkin-Frk
Svechnikov-Nielsen-Ryan
Abdelkader-Glendening-Hlem
Turgeon

Dekeyser-Karlsson
Daley-Hronek
Ericsson-Jensen
Witkowski

Howard/Bernier

You'd still have whoever you draft in the first and second round in 18 (giving away the late first and Ottawa 2nd).
But you'd giveaway Detroit's first next year to keep Karlsson (and you'd need to find away to raise his pay substantially - though Howard's departure would take care of a lot of it).

 

[Winger98]

If you were Detroit's GM, would you trade a 3rd round pick for Tavares before the draft? With a condition that you'll trade them another 2nd if he signs?

If the Islanders accepted, what would you offer Tavares to get him to stay.
You can now offer 8 years.

So, let's say you get him to sign at 8 years, $12M.

Would you trade Mantha, and your second first round pick (18), Rasmussen, Nyquist and a conditional first (19) for Karlsson and Ryan?

I wouldn't do the Karlsson deal because I think you're overpaying if they are including Ryan. I think Ryan is just a toxic asset that knocks down the value of the deal. Without really digging into team needs or anything, I think we could get OEL cheaper. If we could pull OEL for Mantha, Dekeyser and two 1sts, I like being able to turn around and still deal Nyquist somewhere for more assets, while also not being saddled with Ryan.

If we could pull Tavares in, I'd probably look at it as a two year plan at that point. We would need to move some salary or gauge what the exact level of interest there is in Z going LTIR in the near future. I know that probably sounds too conservative after just grabbing Tavares, but I don't think we instantly have to revamp the whole team this summer. Of course, a lot would depend how this draft plays out. A top3 pick makes some guys more expendable than before.

 

[kliq]

I wouldn't do the Karlsson deal because I think you're overpaying if they are including Ryan. I think Ryan is just a toxic asset that knocks down the value of the deal. Without really digging into team needs or anything, I think we could get OEL cheaper. If we could pull OEL for Mantha, Dekeyser and two 1sts, I like being able to turn around and still deal Nyquist somewhere for more assets, while also not being saddled with Ryan.

If we could pull Tavares in, I'd probably look at it as a two year plan at that point. We would need to move some salary or gauge what the exact level of interest there is in Z going LTIR in the near future. I know that probably sounds too conservative after just grabbing Tavares, but I don't think we instantly have to revamp the whole team this summer. Of course, a lot would depend how this draft plays out. A top3 pick makes some guys more expendable than before.

Exactly! People keep looking at what our team would look like immediately after acquiring JT, but what really matters is where can we take this team after signing him. It may take a year or two but he gives us a player to build around for almost a decade.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Hossa was allegedly evaluated by the outside physician, to confirm the diagnosis.

Pay some ”outside physician” half a mil to confirm. Done.

 

[odin1981]

Pay some ”outside physician” half a mil to confirm. Done.

For Kronwall or Z it won't be a problem. Any doctor team or league could look at a x-ray of either players knee or back and see the damage that has been done and ltir would be bonafide and legit for a diagnosis. The organization and fans shouldn't have a worry for either player.

 

[Hammettf2b]

I wouldn't do the Karlsson deal because I think you're overpaying if they are including Ryan. I think Ryan is just a toxic asset that knocks down the value of the deal. Without really digging into team needs or anything, I think we could get OEL cheaper. If we could pull OEL for Mantha, Dekeyser and two 1sts, I like being able to turn around and still deal Nyquist somewhere for more assets, while also not being saddled with Ryan.

If we could pull Tavares in, I'd probably look at it as a two year plan at that point. We would need to move some salary or gauge what the exact level of interest there is in Z going LTIR in the near future. I know that probably sounds too conservative after just grabbing Tavares, but I don't think we instantly have to revamp the whole team this summer. Of course, a lot would depend how this draft plays out. A top3 pick makes some guys more expendable than before.

Just how good do you think OEL is? or even better, how good do you think OEL makes this team? Certainly not worth Mantha and two 1st's imo.

 

[Redder Winger]

For Kronwall or Z it won't be a problem. Any doctor team or league could look at a x-ray of either players knee or back and see the damage that has been done and ltir would be bonafide and legit for a diagnosis. The organization and fans shouldn't have a worry for either player.

I don't know that wear and tear will be an out for allowing a 38-year-old's cap hit to expire.
Especially when the player has said that his contract was designed to "fool the system."

If wear and tear was enough, I'm sure Hossa could have pointed to a shoulder issue or knee issue.

 

[Winger98]

Just how good do you think OEL is? or even better, how good do you think OEL makes this team? Certainly not worth Mantha and two 1st's imo.

I think OEL can be a borderline Norris contender, but he's been on such an awful team for so long that how good he is kind of gets lost. For comparison's sake look at how this board sees the Wings right now, and then consider that Arizona has been worse than that for several years.

He might not be worth Mantha and two 1sts, I did think he had another season (after next) on his deal, but he's not going to be a cheap pickup regardless. Also, outside of this year's draft, I'd rather deal picks than prospects because I think OEL moves that needle for us - especially if we've managed to grab Tavares where this supposition started.