Speculation: Is this the Best Caps Roster ever?

[txpd]

87-88. Scott Stevens was sure as hell playing hall of fame hockey at that point. He had 72 points and 184 pims that year had 11 pts in 13 playoff games. He was the 2nd leading scorer on the team and was 2nd in plus minus.

Larry Murphy was 3rd on that team in scoring. He got run out of town by idiot fans maybe but he was well on his way to his Hall of Fame game. That was Murphy's 8th season in the league. He had scored 23 and 21 goals the previous two seasons with the Caps. the 23 goals was a career best. The Caps didn't win a cup with him but he was full on a hall of fame level player.

Gartner had 48 goals that season.

 

[Hivemind]

I don't think HHoF members is a good way to measure a roster in an individual seasons. Some of those guys got in for their career efforts and longevity (I'm looking at you, Gartner) more than their impact on an any single season. And since scoring was so inflated during the 80s/90s, it was a lot easier to see some impressive total statlines and put them in the Hall of Fame. With scoring down in the modern era, I think (hope?) we see fewer "Hall of Very Good" type of players in the HHoF.

That being said, I bet there's a portion of the HHoF voters who will cast ballots for Justin Williams due to his Smythe and his Cups. I doubt he gets in, but he will get consideration from the more "old school" types.

 

[SimplySensational]

Last years team was the greatest... The coin flip series against the Penguins shouldn't change peoples opinions.

That team was bashed for how it won from behind a lot. This team loses from ahead a lot...

 

[txpd]

I don't think HHoF members is a good way to measure a roster in an individual seasons. Some of those guys got in for their career efforts and longevity (I'm looking at you, Gartner) more than their impact on an any single season. And since scoring was so inflated during the 80s/90s, it was a lot easier to see some impressive total statlines and put them in the Hall of Fame. With scoring down in the modern era, I think (hope?) we see fewer "Hall of Very Good" type of players in the HHoF.

That being said, I bet there's a portion of the HHoF voters who will cast ballots for Justin Williams due to his Smythe and his Cups. I doubt he gets in, but he will get consideration from the more "old school" types.

Sorry, but that roster was stacked with everything but a goalie. The hall of famer part of that is the closer, not the opener.
Dave Christan scored 37 goals that season. Mike Ridley, Dale Hunter, Kelly Miller, Bobby Gould. As mentioned the 5 and 6 D were quality players behind the 4 all stars.

Again...A defense with 4 all star level players. 3 that head to the hall. Yea, Gartner failed in the playoffs, but all that team needed was a goalie. They went to the conference finals a couple years later with an aging Mike Liut. Had they had Liut during that three year run that ended in 88 they might have won 3 cups.

 

[sycamore]

Last years team was the greatest... The coin flip series against the Penguins shouldn't change peoples opinions.

That team was bashed for how it won from behind a lot. This team loses from ahead a lot...

Its got to be this year. Bura, Kuz, Orlov, and the other young players are older, wiser, playoff tested, and, in Bura's case, bigger and stronger too. Also Oshie and Williams have had greater time to gel and form chemistry with the team.

 

[um]

87-88. Scott Stevens was sure as hell playing hall of fame hockey at that point. He had 72 points and 184 pims that year had 11 pts in 13 playoff games. He was the 2nd leading scorer on the team and was 2nd in plus minus.

Larry Murphy was 3rd on that team in scoring. He got run out of town by idiot fans maybe but he was well on his way to his Hall of Fame game. That was Murphy's 8th season in the league. He had scored 23 and 21 goals the previous two seasons with the Caps. the 23 goals was a career best. The Caps didn't win a cup with him but he was full on a hall of fame level player.

Gartner had 48 goals that season.

The Caps were barely above .500 that year, and the they didn't fair well in the playoffs either.

 

[Hivemind]

Sorry, but that roster was stacked with everything but a goalie. The hall of famer part of that is the closer, not the opener.
Dave Christan scored 37 goals that season. Mike Ridley, Dale Hunter, Kelly Miller, Bobby Gould. As mentioned the 5 and 6 D were quality players behind the 4 all stars.

Again...A defense with 4 all star level players. 3 that head to the hall. Yea, Gartner failed in the playoffs, but all that team needed was a goalie. They went to the conference finals a couple years later with an aging Mike Liut. Had they had Liut during that three year run that ended in 88 they might have won 3 cups.

37 goals is nothing in the late 80s. That's tied for 33rd/36th in goal scoring that year, which in a 21 team league is approaching the low end of what you want from a 2nd leading scorer.

More to the point, that team's offense was bad. 281 goals would be good in the modern game, but back then it was bad. To the tune of the 15th ranked offense in a 21 team league. That team was more one-dimensional than the 2010 team. It was missing an awful lot more than just a goalie.

Bottom line is that team was only 5 games over .500, 3rd in its division, and a 2nd round exit. And the team that beat them would lose in the next round to a Boston, who then got swept in the finals against the Oilers. What exactly sets them apart from 15 other Capitals teams over the years? Some on paper analysis based on the total careers of the players involved?

 

[Ridley Simon]

37 goals is nothing in the late 80s. That's tied for 33rd/36th in goal scoring that year, which in a 21 team league is approaching the low end of what you want from a 2nd leading scorer.

More to the point, that team's offense was bad. 281 goals would be good in the modern game, but back then it was bad. To the tune of the 15th ranked offense in a 21 team league. That team was more one-dimensional than the 2010 team. It was missing an awful lot more than just a goalie.

Bottom line is that team was only 5 games over .500, 3rd in its division, and a 2nd round exit. And the team that beat them would lose in the next round to a Boston, who then got swept in the finals against the Oilers. What exactly sets them apart from 15 other Capitals teams over the years? Some on paper analysis based on the total careers of the players involved?

Agreed. The 86 team was better than the 88 team. The 86 team *was* my all time team -- narrowly besting the 10 team -- before this year.

Heck, the 98 Cup team may not even be top 5, which just goes to show how hockey rolls.

 

[Chukcha]

Like I said, the 2010 team had holes. The 2017 team is a more "complete" team than the 2010 team. But the 2010 team had a much better defined strength, and played to their strength. And by asserting their style of play, it ended up covering up for some of the flaws on their roster. If the two teams faced each other, I'd definitely bet on the 2010 team. Especially considering the times we've seen this incarnation struggle with speed.

This. Last year the pens were the same team as the 2010 caps. A rookie goalie, pretty meh defense, and hi-octane offense. They played to their strength and... they have won the cup.

 

[trick9]

This. Last year the pens were the same team as the 2010 caps. A rookie goalie, pretty meh defense, and hi-octane offense. They played to their strength and... they have won the cup.

Their rookie goalie was slightly better in the Playoffs, don't you think?

Besides even last seasons Penguins would have gotten cleaned by the '09-'10 Blackhawks.

 

[Devil Dancer]

2010 Ovechkin >>> 2017 Ovechkin
2010 Backstrom >> 2017 Backstrom

Agreed on Ovie but not Backstrom. The current 19 is a three zone stud. His offensive game had dropped off a bit, but not enough to say his 2010 self was much better.

On paper this is the best Caps team yet. They aren't playing like it though.

 

[Langway]

Backstrom was always a three zone stud. In 2010 he was much more effective offensively 5-on-5, in part because the game at that time was slower than it is today.

It's really difficult to compare eras and teams because the game itself changes so much over time. If you believe the game is constantly evolving for the better, especially with rule changes, then every following year's team in a con(pre)tender will be better than the last.

I don't think this year's team thinks the game all that well so far so from that standpoint it's hard to shower them with accolades. Time will tell.

 

[Acallabeth]

Agreed on Ovie but not Backstrom. The current 19 is a three zone stud. His offensive game had dropped off a bit, but not enough to say his 2010 self was much better.

On paper this is the best Caps team yet. They aren't playing like it though.

It's easy to forget due to Ovechkin's best season ever what a beast 2010 Backstrom was. He was a physical playmaking machine, who was also a formidable scorer and extremely impressive in his own end, easily a top 5 center that year. He may be a little better at defense now, but offensively, he devolved a lot: much tamer and more schematic now. I hate Rene Bourque.

No idea about the old teams, but I'm perfectly sure that 2017 Caps thump the 2010 team. Sure, the 1st line was unstoppable, and Semin was having a career year, but Holtby would outplay Varlamov, and the defense is miles better now. Carlson and Niskanen as 2 top 4 pairing defensemen bring so much more than Green did.

 

[Hivemind]

The 2016-17 Capitals team couldn't handle the speed of the 2016-17 Oilers. The 2010 Capitals team was faster, more aggressive, and all-around better than that Oilers team. Both this and the previous iteration of the Capitals have shown significant weaknesses against teams that play with more pace than they do. That's the epitome of the 2010 Caps.

 

[trick9]

Agreed on Ovie but not Backstrom. The current 19 is a three zone stud. His offensive game had dropped off a bit, but not enough to say his 2010 self was much better.

On paper this is the best Caps team yet. They aren't playing like it though.

Backstrom's shot is a shade of what it used to be. 7 goals in his last 55 games. '09-'10 Backstrom had 33 goals, over 100 points and finished top-10 in Selke -voting.

 

[Ridley Simon]

The 2016-17 Capitals team couldn't handle the speed of the 2016-17 Oilers. The 2010 Capitals team was faster, more aggressive, and all-around better than that Oilers team. Both this and the previous iteration of the Capitals have shown significant weaknesses against teams that play with more pace than they do. That's the epitome of the 2010 Caps.

You -- of all people -- comment on sample size. I'd take the Caps all day in a 7 game series against the Oilers. One game doesn't tell us much.

 

[Hivemind]

You -- of all people -- comment on sample size. I'd take the Caps all day in a 7 game series against the Oilers. One game doesn't tell us much.

The Oilers were hardly the only example of this Caps team struggling with speed. Carolina outskated them recently (Alan May commented directly about it). And we spent all off-season talking about the Penguins series last year. This isn't isolated just to the Oilers, even if that was the one example I called out.

 

[Brian23]

I don't think Bourque is the reason Backstrom dropped off. He's still got the shot, he just stopped using it. Getting hit in the head doesn't make someone stop shooting. He's also still shown the nasty/physical side to him.

We've seen it plenty of times when Ovi's not in the game, Backstrom can snipe in a wrister when called for. He just...doesn't for some reason.

 

[Corby78]

I think top to bottom this is the best overall roster. I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't show at the end of the regular season. I have a feeling we are going to be doing a lot of experimenting. I also think this team realizes the regular season doesn't mean much to this squad. Nothing to prove outside the playoffs.

 

[Devil Dancer]

I remember 2010 Backstrom as an excellent player who benefited offensively a lot from playing with peak or near peak Ovie, Semin and Green.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

I remember 2010 Backstrom as an excellent player who benefited offensively a lot from playing with peak or near peak Ovie, Semin and Green.

He was lighter and faster back then. He had this youthful energy which has been missing since Bourque elbowed him in the face back in 2012.

 

[sycamore]

The 2016-17 Capitals team couldn't handle the speed of the 2016-17 Oilers. The 2010 Capitals team was faster, more aggressive, and all-around better than that Oilers team. Both this and the previous iteration of the Capitals have shown significant weaknesses against teams that play with more pace than they do. That's the epitome of the 2010 Caps.

The biggest problem with the 2010 team was that they were managed by one George McPhee. He could have sealed the deal with the acquisition of a blue-chip defenseman at the TDL. But he opted instead for Joe Corvo.

 

[Hivemind]

The biggest problem with the 2010 team was that they were managed by one George McPhee. He could have sealed the deal with the acquisition of a blue-chip defenseman at the TDL. But he opted instead for Joe Corvo.

Corvo was probably the 2nd best defenseman dealt at that deadline behind Lubomir Visnovskey (who shares similar flaws). The only big name defensemen to move that season was Phaneuf, and that trade wouldn't have worked with the salary cap and happened back in January of 2010. Oduya also was moved in February, but it was part of the Kovalchuk trade.

It wasn't a good year to be shopping for a defenseman, unfortunately.

 

[Bananas]

The biggest problem with the 2010 team was that they were managed by one George McPhee. He could have sealed the deal with the acquisition of a blue-chip defenseman at the TDL. But he opted instead for Joe Corvo.

And now our "neUsed" in-house gm replacement has taken our best teams to date and bolstered them with Curtis Glencross and Mike Freakin' Weber...

The deadlines have absolutely neutered our best chances at a Cup. Plain and simple...

If we find the team is too flawed this year to push all-in on, then shame on BMac for getting gun shy when he should have pulled the trigger when we had the chance...

If this team shows real signs of life this year it's imperative that we move mountains to make real additions when we get to the deadline. Prospects, picks...and consequences...be damned.

At the moment that's looking like a moot point because we may have lost ground to the rest of the league. If that's the case then move some serious players in the other direction and take the freaking medicine. Which is the other thing we've consistently failed to do - move core pieces who are playing relatively well or trade away our impending FA's: Semin, Ribeiro, Green etc.

Read through the tea leaves and make a turn one way or the other...hard. Be confident that your team is a contender (buy) or a pretender (sell). This middling BS is strictly for the birds...