Is there any doubt that a Prime Jagr would have decimated this league?

Flameshomer

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Aug 26, 2010
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Partly true.

Howe and Shore would not even make an OHL team today.

The only way they wouldn't be high level NHL players is if you literally took a time machine and brought 17 year old versions of them to todays tryouts. If they were both born in the 90s and developed among the crowd I would be willing to bet any amount of money both would still be High impact NHL players. Especially with Gordie- there's just something about this level of person you can't teach. He would have made it.
 

ManofSteel55

Registered User
Aug 15, 2013
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Sylvan Lake, Alberta
Lol Jagr had 123 points right after the lockout as a 36 year old, just behind Joe Thornton for the league lead, and guys in here saying he tops out at 110 points in his prime. Prime Jagr would win the scoring title. Imagine if Kucherov were 6'3 and over 210 pounds lol
That year was a different beast, but you could be right. The NHL was calling all sorts of penalties all year so scoring was inflated over today's standards.
 
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PatrikBerglund

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May 29, 2017
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The only way they wouldn't be high level NHL players is if you literally took a time machine and brought 17 year old versions of them to todays tryouts. If they were both born in the 90s and developed among the crowd I would be willing to bet any amount of money both would still be High impact NHL players. Especially with Gordie- there's just something about this level of person you can't teach. He would have made it.

They weren't born in the 1990s, so what you are saying is irrelevant.

What you are talking about is fiction.
 

JackSlater

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Apr 27, 2010
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Of course Jagr would be dominant today. I will say though that Jagr was uniquely suited to dead puck era hockey. At his peak he was massive enough that mauling him didn't really slow him down, and he didn't engage in many physical wars and thus pay the toll that Lindros did. Peak Jagr also slowed things down a lot, which suited that era as well. I basically see peak Jagr as peak Kane plus significant size.
 

Flameshomer

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Aug 26, 2010
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They weren't born in the 1990s, so what you are saying is irrelevant.

What you are talking about is fiction.
No, the scenario where a person with 50s era training is dropped directly in to the current model of physical fitness/athleticism without any sort of preparation is FICTION. What I'm talking about is trying to compare apples to apples; admittedly impossible with players from bygone eras, but it's completely irrational to believe that they would stay the same physically with today's regimens.
 

B17 Apricots

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May 18, 2016
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People lack the mental capacity or simply biased to objectively observe how quick the game has progressed. It's changed since 5 years ago, let alone 1 or 2 or 3 decades ago. Theres such an insane amount of variables that each era is pretty much incompatible for comparison. I would bet my money that a large portion of people saying these things are from the same generation as these players and like I said earlier we will get another portion of a generation in 2040 saying that McDavid or the Blackhawks' or Penguins' teams playing in 2040 would destroy rather than simply keeping them in their respective era's and understanding the impossibility of comparison. You almost get the sense that for some of these people it's more about them saying their generation is the best rather than simply acknowledging the natural progression of their sport. To actually address the OP he would more than likely be a generational talent but some of the logic here is just flat out nonsense. There's this guy named Ovechkin that might ring a bell with literally the same exact build but I'm not entirely sure how teams figure out a way to stop him. This is a league now where the parity between high end players is almost nonexistent, the last few seasons being no more than 10 points, yet Jagr is going to come in with a build that has never been seen before:sarcasm: and put up 50% more points than anyone else? Come on really? Where is the logic here?

A good comparison because it's similar and incredibly obvious to see it's progressing at an absurd rate is the UFC in particular the woman's division. Ronda Rousey looked like a monster in a developing market where overall skill was not yet very high and in just a few years from strikeforce to the ufc went from unstoppable, with Rogan even saying she could fight in the men's division (which he later said was silly of him) , to facing 2 well rounded strikers making her look silly. In almost 5 years the overall skill level has skyrocketed and in 10 years Ronda might still be regarded as the best female fighter ever but the overall talent and parity will not be remotely comparable to her time period.

To sum it up, keep it in their respective eras.
 

Kybb79

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Sep 13, 2016
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Prime Jagr and Prime Mario would be better than any duo today! Both would be better than Crosby or Mcdavid.
 

PatrikBerglund

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May 29, 2017
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No, the scenario where a person with 50s era training is dropped directly in to the current model of physical fitness/athleticism without any sort of preparation is FICTION. What I'm talking about is trying to compare apples to apples; admittedly impossible with players from bygone eras, but it's completely irrational to believe that they would stay the same physically with today's regimens.

The ONLY way to do this comparison is to take the players EXACTLY as they were. You seem to want to make one player a lot better than he really was, and THEN compare him to other players EXACTLY as good as they are.

You seriously don't understand how dishonest and unfair that is?

With your logic Beethoven could've been the best hockey player in the world, had he been born in 1992. Makes no sense.
 
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Panthaz89

Buffalo Sabres, Carolina Panthers fan
Dec 24, 2016
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The training portion is overrated anyway....ALL of the HOF players had hockey skills that you never get from physical training and did it against guys that were only out there to hurt them as well so not only did they have to dominate they had to stay healthy in an era where it was more difficult to do so.
 

daver

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The ONLY way to do this comparison is to take the players EXACTLY as they were. You seem to want to make one player a lot better than he really was, and THEN compare him to other players EXACTLY as good as they are.

You seriously don't understand how dishonest and unfair that is?

With your logic Beethoven could've been the best hockey player in the world, had he been born in 1992. Makes no sense.

The ONLY way to do a comparison is to measure how they did against their peers and translate that statistically into today's league. A peak Jagr would have put up about 110 points last year.
 
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Nick Hansen

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Sep 28, 2017
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I honestly think McDavid was a bit overrated coming in. Great player, great talent, great tools - yes, but the hype got out of hand and it was presented like he'd be a new Lemieux or whatever. He isn't. I doubt he'll have a better career than Crosby tbh. Who's had a damn fine career btw.
 

Flameshomer

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Aug 26, 2010
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The ONLY way to do this comparison is to take the players EXACTLY as they were. You seem to want to make one player a lot better than he really was, and THEN compare him to other players EXACTLY as good as they are.

You seriously don't understand how dishonest and unfair that is?

With your logic Beethoven could've been the best hockey player in the world, had he been born in 1992. Makes no sense.
Your analogy is flawed.

It's more like you're arguing Taylor swift is a better musician than Beethoven because more people buy her albums.
 

Ainec

Panetta was not racist
Jun 20, 2009
21,784
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Jagr is hockey

I've criticized him dragging down Barkov and Huberdeau BUT these 2 players received tremendous guidance and mentorship which is invaluable

Sundin is nowhere as good but it was a great signing by the Canucks that lead to Sedins and Kesler exploding offensively.

I wonder if he's able to do it with the Flames young stars like Tkachuk
 

Ainec

Panetta was not racist
Jun 20, 2009
21,784
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Writing that post made me realise how stupid the Oilers are for not signing Jagr

He would be their best winger if Drai moved to center. That's just sad.

Missed a great opportunity to have your generational player and German star under his tutorship
 
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DenisSamson3

Registered User
Sep 13, 2007
8,538
53
People lack the mental capacity or simply biased to objectively observe how quick the game has progressed. It's changed since 5 years ago, let alone 1 or 2 or 3 decades ago. Theres such an insane amount of variables that each era is pretty much incompatible for comparison. I would bet my money that a large portion of people saying these things are from the same generation as these players and like I said earlier we will get another portion of a generation in 2040 saying that McDavid or the Blackhawks' or Penguins' teams playing in 2040 would destroy rather than simply keeping them in their respective era's and understanding the impossibility of comparison. You almost get the sense that for some of these people it's more about them saying their generation is the best rather than simply acknowledging the natural progression of their sport. To actually address the OP he would more than likely be a generational talent but some of the logic here is just flat out nonsense. There's this guy named Ovechkin that might ring a bell with literally the same exact build but I'm not entirely sure how teams figure out a way to stop him. This is a league now where the parity between high end players is almost nonexistent, the last few seasons being no more than 10 points, yet Jagr is going to come in with a build that has never been seen before:sarcasm: and put up 50% more points than anyone else? Come on really? Where is the logic here?

A good comparison because it's similar and incredibly obvious to see it's progressing at an absurd rate is the UFC in particular the woman's division. Ronda Rousey looked like a monster in a developing market where overall skill was not yet very high and in just a few years from strikeforce to the ufc went from unstoppable, with Rogan even saying she could fight in the men's division (which he later said was silly of him) , to facing 2 well rounded strikers making her look silly. In almost 5 years the overall skill level has skyrocketed and in 10 years Ronda might still be regarded as the best female fighter ever but the overall talent and parity will not be remotely comparable to her time period.

To sum it up, keep it in their respective eras.


well if we look at ufc we could also look at Tennis. Federer is still ranked 2nd place and won Wimbledon last year in a sport where people his age should be retired. Serena Williams was still a major factor.

What will really be interesting is seeing how Serena Williams performs after having a baby at her age.

Both hockey and tennis are sports where you can see the difference clearly from different time periods, technology changes and increase in speed and power.
 

hairylikebear

///////////////
Apr 30, 2009
4,177
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Houston
Yes, easily. Considering that decimate means to "destroy" 90% of, he would most certainly be within the top 10% of players for at least 15 years of his career.
 

Passchendaele

Registered User
Dec 11, 2006
7,731
1,149
I don't know why people say the game is 'faster than ever'

It's slower (granted, it's a bit better this year) and players are lacking in creativity more than they ever did. The 90s were filled with superstar talents, the Gretzky, Lemieux, Jagr, Sakic, Forsberg, Bure, Fedorov, Yzerman, Hull, Lindros, Kariya, Selanne, Modano, Fleury, Gilmour, etc etc.

Today's 'best-players', save for a handful, are glorified grinders valued for their 'two-way play'. When a 30-30 guy like Bergeron is proclaimed as one of the best Cs.. sorry, I don't buy it.
 
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mouser

Business of Hockey
Jul 13, 2006
29,353
12,727
South Mountain
What the title says.

Dude is 45 going on 46 and he is still effective in the era wherea prime Gretzky would score about 70 pts.

Arguing a prime early 20's Jagr would be dominate in today's league is completely justified.

Arguing that a prime Gretzky would score about 70 points is dumb and does more to detract from your thread then add to it.
 

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