Is the Soviet national team between 1978-1984 the best ever?

[Sentinel]

You're going to tell me that those Soviet squads could've beaten the Canada Cup 1987 roster, all other things being equal?

Well, for one, goaltending was a tad bit better. Tretiak >> Mylnikov / Belosheikin. Petrov was also better as the 1st line centerman than (injured) Larionov.

 

[canuck2010]

JUst to lighten things up my vote goes to the Toronto Granites

They won the 1924 Olympic hockey medal outscoring the opposition 85-0 in the preliminary round.

Won their next two final games 19-2 over GReat Britian (probably all Canadians) and beat the USA 6-1

THe USA played us close then too!

 

[feffan]

The defense and goaltending right now is 1000 times better than it was in the 80s. Nobody can touch Mario or Wayne but that's something to consider.

You mean that Doughty, Weber, Bouwmeester, Boyle, Pronger, Blake, Jovanovski, Foote, Niedermayer is 1000 times better than Robinson, Potvin, Bourque, Coffey, Murphy, MacInnis, Desjardins, Stevens? (added 91 to get about the same amount of year, and it´s the same generation of players...). One group has arguably 6 top 20 defenders ever and the other group has one who has an argument for the top 20 (Pronger, not Niedermayer...). And none of the others 02-14 are on career paths to get there. The D-core of today is deep, but they have no where near the top guys of the 80´s/90´s.

And while the goalies sure are better 02-14 (mostly because of Brodeur...) the goalies of the 80´s were better than the overall legacy tells. Fuhr was a better goalie than Luongo and Price. As was Ranford alá early 90´s. And even if they should have played Smith in 81, Liut wasn´t a bad goalie but off course clearly behind Luongo and Price. And Carey Price played one hell of tournament last, but he ain´t a better goalie than Fuhr.

It sure is a win for 02-14 goalies, but the defenceman and forwards off the 80/early 90`s wins to big for it to be a better team than those Canada-teams. For me even the 96-team who got beaten by USA are a better than 02-14. By default also that USA team.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

Well, for one, goaltending was a tad bit better. Tretiak >> Mylnikov / Belosheikin. Petrov was also better as the 1st line centerman than (injured) Larionov.

Sorry I meant to imply the Canadian 1987 roster, not the Russian one.

 

[kmad]

You mean that Doughty, Weber, Bouwmeester, Boyle, Pronger, Blake, Jovanovski, Foote, Niedermayer is 1000 times better than Robinson, Potvin, Bourque, Coffey, Murphy, MacInnis, Desjardins, Stevens? (added 91 to get about the same amount of year, and it´s the same generation of players...). One group has arguably 6 top 20 defenders ever and the other group has one who has an argument for the top 20 (Pronger, not Niedermayer...). And none of the others 02-14 are on career paths to get there. The D-core of today is deep, but they have no where near the top guys of the 80´s/90´s.

I was speaking to team defense and defensive systems rather than collection of individuals. The 2014 squad (of which you forgot to mention Pietrangelo, Keith, and Subban) was impenetrable.

Fuhr was a better goalie than Luongo and Price. As was Ranford alá early 90´s.

You will never convince me of this.

 

[feffan]

I was speaking to team defense and defensive systems rather than collection of individuals. The 2014 squad (of which you forgot to mention Pietrangelo, Keith, and Subban) was impenetrable.

I didn´t mention all of the 80´s players either, as it spanned 10-12 years - but my mistake leaving Keith out as he truly is one of the greatest of this generation. Subban and Pietrangelo has nothing on the oldies, so they are a moot point.
And even how good the Canadian team played this last olympics I´ll stick to that team with the top 3 of Robinson/Potvin/Bourque around all star seasons before any combination of the ones mentioned. Or the one where you take away Potvin and add prime Coffey. Having those three playing 30 minutes each and you can give me any two-three other defenders in the NHL to take the sheltered minutes left. Don´t care about what system you want to play.

To blend in a better defensive system is kind of weird to me, as the offensive systems also evolved. That´s like judging Gretzky by the skates he wore. The systems evolved because of and with the old guard for a reason.
If you add that to the equation you also for example have to speculate how the oldies would have feared with all the new rules. What the adventages was and so on. For example what damage those players could do without the red line offside.
And a 40 year old Bourque was a first all star in 01, so I see no problem with the oldies adapting to the new systems. The greatest are the greatest whenever they play, that´s been proven many times.

That said, I got to say I think that Canada (and the world really...) has never had a deeper crop of great D:s. But I also think that really no one since Pronger has reached the levels of the ones mentioned above. Or even Scott Stevens-level for that mather. Today you don´t have anyone really on there way to reaching the top 20 ever. If Doughy played at his top level more steady, he might be there.

You will never convince me of this.

We´ll have to agree to disagree of the goalies then, even if Ranford may be pushing it from my side (even if he had a great but short peak...)
But Smith and Fuhr I stand by as better goalies than the ones mentioned. Let´s not forget Fuhr lasted in the NHL even into this millenium. He posted all his best stats after 33, and it was not because of that he was a better goalie than when he was with the Oilers 10-15 years earlier...

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

In terms of pure skill, the Soviets possibly had the best teams ever.