Is the NHL in Portland a real possibility?

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SedinFan*

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The Messenger said:
Its still early ... Columbus has not been around very long, lots of time to fail yet.

Sure they draw some fans at home .. but are in bottom percentage when it comes to Road games and drawing interest for fans in other cities .. So other then the good people of Columbus itself no one gives a Damn about them ... IMO.

If Columbus had a AHL team that would probably also be good enough for most hockey Fans in Columbus ..

Columbus has been losing ever since they came into the league and they average 16,000+ every single season. They have dedicated, loyal fans that won't dissapear. Great expansion move.
 

mooseOAK*

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Zack Attack said:
530,000 peope in Portland. Another 150,000 in Vancouver, Washington which is located about 10 mins north of Portland.

So in that greater area you have about 700,000 people.

More than enough to support 2 major league teams. Especially if they're both NHL and NBA, meaning that there's no NFL team there where the capacity's are 50,000+, or baseball where 40,000+ is usually the capacity. The NHL and NBA can work in 'small' markets quite easily in my mind.

If their seasons didn't conflict, maybe.

700,000 is a very small market, I can't think of a similar one that is supporting an NHL and NBA team.
 

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mooseOAK said:
The market in Portland just isn't big enough to support an NBA and NHL franchise.
the last census has the Portland urban area at 2,180,996 Tampa is 100k ahead and it has 3 teams, Pittsburgh 200k ahead supports 3 teams (one in financial trouble) has a worse economy, Denver 200k ahead 4 teams.

Cinncy and KC are immediately after them on the list and they have two teams each.
 

SedinFan*

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Hasbro said:
the last census has the Portland urban area at 2,180,996 Tampa is 100k ahead and it has 3 teams, Pittsburgh 200k ahead supports 3 teams (one in financial trouble) has a worse economy, Denver 200k ahead 4 teams.

Cinncy and KC are immediately after them on the list and they have two teams each.

Good stuff, my number jumped up quite a bit, never knew they had that site, I was just googling it. Thanks for the link.
 

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Hasbro said:
the last census has the Portland urban area at 2,180,996 Tampa is 100k ahead and it has 3 teams, Pittsburgh 200k ahead supports 3 teams (one in financial trouble) has a worse economy, Denver 200k ahead 4 teams.

Cinncy and KC are immediately after them on the list and they have two teams each.
That site is old... Nashville is bigger than Memphis now.

For the record Nashville once held the record for attendance in the ECHL.....
http://www.census.gov/population/cen2000/phc-t3/tab03.pdf
 

Mess

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Top Shelf said:
Your right, Columbus hasn't been around very long but yet apparently they have been around long enough for you to draw conclusions.



Quite frankly, why would the Columbus franchise or their fans care about what they draw on the road? Selling tickets to road games is not the Blue Jacket's responsibility.

Bottom line is that the CBJ were one of only 10 teams to actually make money last year and you want to yank them. Because why? - oh, b/c they don't draw well on the road and haven't had enough time to fail yet.....:shakehead
Of course you don't care on the road .. You get to watch them for a small amount .. Its fans in other cities when Columbus is on the road that has to pay triple and quadruple at the gate to see their team play, regardless of the team in town .. Columbus is holding out their hand like all the other non-traditional Hockey markets hoping for Revenue Sharing from others to allow them to compete in the NHL ..

Drawing at home effects 1 hockey market ... NOT drawing on the road effects 29 others ..and its nice that Columbus made money, but because it road schedule and lack of success on the ice it is contributing to the losses in all those other cities, where they simply have no iterest in seeing Columbus or paying the prices to see them. Surely this concept can't be hard to grasp.

How do you know your home team interest is for the your own team or the fans in Columbus are paying to see Mario Lemieux, Peter Forsberg, Marty Brodeur, Mike Modano, Joe Sakic, Ilya Kovalchuk come to town ??

I bet some of your worst home gate receipts for Columbus occur when Nashville or Carolina or someone comes to town that doesn't have the star power to draw $$ from the fans ...

Also Cinny and Cleveland are 2 major cities in OHIO and have major sports teams in the NFL, NBA and MLB ... How come the NHL went to Columbus ??.. and not the major sport cities ??

What is wrong with having Columbus as a AHL market .. The AHL is in Cleveland and Cinny and then are not complaining ??

The point about new is based on the fact that everything new is a novelty item at first when its shinny and new .. We have no idea if that will wear off .. If Rick Nash blew out his knee and was lost for the year, I guarantee you gate receipts would drop off big time for HOME CROWD viewers should that occur .. IMO
 
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Buffaloed

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Any city that has an arena (or a contract to build or renovate one) that meets the NHL's criteria, doesn't infringe on another team's territorial rights, and ownership willing to spend the money can have a team. Although the NHL Board of Governors must approve any franchise relocation, the reality is they can't legally deny a move if those paramaters are met. The NFL tried that with Al Davis and were overruled by the courts. If someone with deep pockets wants an NHL team in Portland, there will be an NHL team in Portland if they buy an existing team. It's as simple as that.
 

X0ssbar

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The Messenger said:
I bet some of your worst home gate receipts for Columbus occur when Nashville or Carolina or someone comes to town that doesn't have the star power to draw $$ from the fans ...

You bet wrong - again . That statement alone shows how much you know about hockey in Columbus - which is absolutely zilch.

Nashville is one of, if not the biggest rivalry that the Blue Jackets play. They either sell out or come very close to sellouts whenever they come to town - whatever night that may be.

...keep digging..
 

Mess

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You bet wrong - again . That statement alone shows how much you know about hockey in Columbus - which is absolutely zilch.

Nashville is one of, if not the biggest rivalry that the Blue Jackets play. They either sell out or come very close to sellouts whenever they come to town - whatever night that may be.

...keep digging..
Alright because of proximity Nashville and division rival for a Playoff spot .. .. I just picked a couple of examples .. How about Anaheim and Florida or Pittsburgh without Lemieux in the lineup ..??

In order to grow the game and hopes or a Big TV contract in the Future like the NFL has for Revenue sharing your HOME team HAS to be a drawn in other markets .. probably even more so then home to get viewers in all other NA cities to buy into Pay per View and Centre Ice and other Satelite packages..

I will even give you that Columbus is not even at the botom and does deserve credit for that and I can pick 6-8 at least that are worse draws and more unprofitable etc.

Even you would have to admit if you went to a Columbus home game your are more interested in seeing Rob Blake or Nik Lidstrom or Scott Niedermayer then Anders Ericksson play for the home team .. Anders Ericksson is top Dman in Columbus and a glorified AHLer is the majority of the other markets. That is a problem to the league and interest from fans ..
 
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Buffaloed

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Top Shelf said:
You bet wrong - again . That statement alone shows how much you know about hockey in Columbus - which is absolutely zilch.

Nashville is one of, if not the biggest rivalry that the Blue Jackets play. They either sell out or come very close to sellouts whenever they come to town - whatever night that may be.

...keep digging..

The attendance stats don't support your statement. Nashville was the 4th worst drawing team in Columbus last season.


[pre] Team dates total avg
CAROLINA 1 16,411 16,411
TAMPA BAY 1 16,542 16,542
NY ISLANDERS 1 16,578 16,578
NASHVILLE 3 49,841 16,614
LOS ANGELES 2 33,459 16,730
PHOENIX 2 33,624 16,812[/pre]
(18,136 = sellout)

When Columbus visited Nashville they only drew an average of 12,599.

COLUMBUS BLUEJACKETS ATTENDANCE REPORT

I believe I've stated before that if the NHL wants to make its product more entertaining, revenue sharing must include attendance revenues. If the road team took home 40% they'd have a strong incentive to play entertaining hockey and fill the seats. The only incentive on the road is to get out of the building with a point, and hopefully do that enough to make the playoffs where the big money is for the owner. The easiest way to get a point on the road is to play the trap.
 

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mooseOAK said:
They don't have an NBA and NHL team whose seasons run at the same time.
It's about twice the size of Buffalo and they might like an alternative to the blazers Judging by their eroding attendance (their drawing 16,500 in a 20000 seat arena that used to be an automatic sell out.)
 
derbyfan said:
The WHL'S Winterhawks have been in Portland for nearly 30 years, and consistently are among the league's top teams in terms of attendance. I know this doesn't guarantee NHL success, but Portland citizens have shown they WILL support minor league hockey, and do have a knowledge of the game.
I personally feel that the city would do great with a team (relocated, not expansion mind you :D ).

Sarcasm... sarcasm. As in, "how can Portland be less of a hockey market then..." oh, never mind... :p
 

SedinFan*

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Tawnos said:
Key Arena hold 17,000 people...

Personally, I'd think it'd be a sweet idea to have a division that includes Portland, Seattle, Vancouver, Colorado, Calgary, Edmonton.

That'd make for some damn good rivalries. However, Seattles got all the major sports, so that might be a problem.
 

jacketracket*

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The Messenger said:
Of course you don't care on the road .. You get to watch them for a small amount .. Its fans in other cities when Columbus is on the road that has to pay triple and quadruple at the gate to see their team play, regardless of the team in town .. Columbus is holding out their hand like all the other non-traditional Hockey markets hoping for Revenue Sharing from others to allow them to compete in the NHL ..

Drawing at home effects 1 hockey market ... NOT drawing on the road effects 29 others ..and its nice that Columbus made money, but because it road schedule and lack of success on the ice it is contributing to the losses in all those other cities, where they simply have no iterest in seeing Columbus or paying the prices to see them. Surely this concept can't be hard to grasp.

How do you know your home team interest is for the your own team or the fans in Columbus are paying to see Mario Lemieux, Peter Forsberg, Marty Brodeur, Mike Modano, Joe Sakic, Ilya Kovalchuk come to town ??

I bet some of your worst home gate receipts for Columbus occur when Nashville or Carolina or someone comes to town that doesn't have the star power to draw $$ from the fans ...

Also Cinny and Cleveland are 2 major cities in OHIO and have major sports teams in the NFL, NBA and MLB ... How come the NHL went to Columbus ??.. and not the major sport cities ??

What is wrong with having Columbus as a AHL market .. The AHL is in Cleveland and Cinny and then are not complaining ??

The point about new is based on the fact that everything new is a novelty item at first when its shinny and new .. We have no idea if that will wear off .. If Rick Nash blew out his knee and was lost for the year, I guarantee you gate receipts would drop off big time for HOME CROWD viewers should that occur .. IMO
:shakehead
 

Kestrel

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The Messenger said:
How do you know your home team interest is for the your own team or the fans in Columbus are paying to see Mario Lemieux, Peter Forsberg, Marty Brodeur, Mike Modano, Joe Sakic, Ilya Kovalchuk come to town ??

This seems like a pretty silly question to me. If the draw is so bad in Pittsburgh, Colorado, NJ, Dallas, and Atlanta - the the HOME town fans obviously aren't coming out and filling the building to watch those stars... why would fans in Columbus come out consistently to watch those stars from different teams? And don't say it's because Columbus doesn't have its own stars. I find it difficult to believe that a fanbase split by 20 some odd teams with stars will consistently fill a team better than a fanbase that supports a relatively starless, yet still HOME team.
 

jacketracket*

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Kestrel said:
This seems like a pretty silly question to me. If the draw is so bad in Pittsburgh, Colorado, NJ, Dallas, and Atlanta - the the HOME town fans obviously aren't coming out and filling the building to watch those stars... why would fans in Columbus come out consistently to watch those stars from different teams? And don't say it's because Columbus doesn't have its own stars. I find it difficult to believe that a fanbase split by 20 some odd teams with stars will consistently fill a team better than a fanbase that supports a relatively starless, yet still HOME team.
Good point, but no need to bother ... rational thought seems wasted on some people.
 

YellHockey*

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Tawnos said:
16,000 for hockey then. Still enough capacity for a major league hockey team.

You must be from Winnipeg. :)

From what I've heard, Key Arena is like America West Arena. Great for basketball but a disaster for hockey.
 

Paisano*

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Ejh18 said:
The NHL is the only professional sport in Columbus.
Well they DO (cough!) have Major League Soccer and Arena Football both of which average about 17000 per game. Add Ohio State Football 100000, basketball 13000 and hockey 10000 and there is competition for the sports dollar there.
 

FlyersFan10*

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The Messenger said:
Its still early ... Columbus has not been around very long, lots of time to fail yet.

Sure they draw some fans at home .. but are in bottom percentage when it comes to Road games and drawing interest for fans in other cities .. So other then the good people of Columbus itself no one gives a Damn about them ... IMO.

If Columbus had a AHL team that would probably also be good enough for most hockey Fans in Columbus ..

You obviously don't know your geography too well, do you? I suggest you take a look at where the state of Ohio is located and see that it isn't far from other states where hockey has been a success. As well, Ohio State has an excellent hockey program (David Steckel, Ryan Kessler, and RJ Umberger have all gone through there) and when you average 17,000 fans a game, that's a good foothold on making money and keeping a team.

So, IMO, you need to start doing research before you make an uneducated statement like that.
 

FlyersFan10*

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The Messenger said:
If Rick Nash blew out his knee and was lost for the year, I guarantee you gate receipts would drop off big time for HOME CROWD viewers should that occur .. IMO

Just shows how much you know. Rick Nash isn't even the most talented forward in Columbus. That distinction belongs to Zherdev. I guarantee that he'll be the one people will want to see or hear about. He's just that damn good.
 

PredsFan77*

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Well it didn't take long for this to make this bash the south thread #64
 
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