Is it time to blow the team up and rebuild?

Discussion in 'Montreal Canadiens' started by OnceWasNot, Oct 9, 2017.

?

Is it time to rebuild?

  1. Yes

    68.4%
  2. No

    14.2%
  3. Too early to say

    17.4%
  1. G0bias

    G0bias Registered User

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    Jets, Flyers and Flames are probably desperate for a goaltender, I could see them as possible future landing spots for Carey. Although not desperate enough to give up their franchise forwards though.
     
  2. greyboy67

    greyboy67 Registered User

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    It's way too early to propose "blowing up" the team. Five games isn't a large enough sample size.

    I would much prefer the Habs start slowly and catch fire late instead of what they've done in recent years—burst from the gate like Secretariat only to be revealed as Mister Ed.

    Carey Price is not going to continue giving up goals at a 3.30 clip with a save percentage under .900. While this team will never be top-end when it comes to scoring goals, it will certainly improve on the current GPGA of 1.00. (Even last year's anemic offense managed 2.72 goals per game.) And does anyone really believe that the team shooting percentage will continue to hover at 1.79?

    I'm not saying this will be a very good team. But I'm also not going to toss them into the dumpster after 5 games.

    As a Vezina-winning goalie once said, "Relax, chill out."
     
  3. NotProkofievian

    NotProkofievian Registered User

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    Again, I'm not sure I've seen a post suggesting that the habs won't improve upon a projected 40 odd point finish so, both the sample size argument and the ''they'll improve'' argument are sort of moot. The first because we're not drawing on these 4 games exclusively to reach our conclusion, and the second because, well, no ****. They'll of course improve, but to what? To a Stanley Cup contender? Please.
     
    Compile likes this.
  4. Habaholicgolfer

    Habaholicgolfer Loyal Habs Fan

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    Because each year is different and brings different challenges. In 2012, we got an injection of healthy players and with two youngsters who gave us hope.. Galchenyuk and Gallagher. It's a completely different feel when there is no pressure to win. The pressure to win is getting out of hand in Montreal IMO. Pressure to win will not help us win, even if we fire our GM and hire a new one. The pressure is still there and we give our new GM a year or two and the Pressure builds again.

    To compound our pressure is we did not have a good off season. Started well with Drouin but then Radulov walked to Dallas and Markov wanted too much for a 39 year old who is clearly not the same player he once was.

    Bergevin is definitely on the hot seat and it's deserved. Lets say we have a bad year and Bergevin says the Habs will do a min-rebuild or full rebuild like some want us to do. What do you think then?
     
  5. lamp9post

    lamp9post Registered User

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    The Jets would be scary with Price. They have all the pieces in place to be a contender for the next 8 years except the goalie.

    I think the Flames and Flyers are too far away from contention to make a big move like that at this stage.
     
  6. G0bias

    G0bias Registered User

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    Jets also need a new coach or defensive system. I used to only think their G needed to be better but their defence/or coaching staff deserve some of the blame. They were horrendous against the leafs and gave up a ton of high danger chances. Although Price would probably be good enough make up for that.
     
  7. Habaholicgolfer

    Habaholicgolfer Loyal Habs Fan

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    That's the thing. Even before the preseason, did we really think we would be Stanley cup Contenders? Even if we acquire Duchene with picks and prospects, we are still not a legit contender. I've been saying it all along. We were stuck at the top 10 NHL team level and it looks like we might take a step back this year.

    I actually respect the fan base that wants a Rebuild because they realize we likely don't win a cup with our current team core. That's just probability. Personally, I am willing to support our current team with the hopes we can keep improving. I was hoping for a better start but maybe an off year is what the doctor ordered. We get a lottery pick and maybe we go after Tavares? This team needs some good news for a change.

    Having said all of this. I still think we will be in the playoffs if we stay healthy. We do need to have Galchenyuk at his best though.... either for trade value or the goals he can get for us. If Galchenyuk falls like Yakupov, it's going to be dark days in Montreal
     
  8. Habaholicgolfer

    Habaholicgolfer Loyal Habs Fan

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    I never believed a goalie is that good enough to offset a bad team D. The difference between Price and the worse NHL goaltenders is really not that much. Look at Smith for the Flames. He is going to have a great year because he is playing on a good team. Look at what happened to Dubnyk. The difference between Condon and Price is what? Top 10 to 21st? Think about it.

    Price is one of the best goaltenders in the league. There is likely about 10 goalies in the NHL that are very close to his ability. The Habs and the system we play in front of Price is our own fault. We like to collapse in tight and we are unable to sustain pressure in the offensive end. This system just gives other teams confidence and we are very predictable.

    Look at how we handled Galchenyuk. We dwell on his mistakes instead of giving him the confidence to go out there and be creative.
     
  9. G0bias

    G0bias Registered User

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    Disagree on this point however. Only a few have proved capable of doing this. I think Price is one of them.
     
  10. Habaholicgolfer

    Habaholicgolfer Loyal Habs Fan

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    Difference between Price and Condon is a top 10 NHL team vs a 21st NHL team. Think about where the Habs would be if we had a average NHL goaltender. Heck, who stopped our preseason loosing streak? It was Lindgren and the Devils had a NHL roster too while we did not have a full roster.

    I don't believe Price is god. Sorry. Price does well when the team does well. Hockey is a team game. Price is one darn good goalie but he's not as good as you think he is.
     
  11. G0bias

    G0bias Registered User

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    So he is good enough to offset bad team D.

    Never claimed anything remotely close to this.
    You seem to think the same as I do though which is funny because you pointed out he's the difference between a being bottom feeder and a top 10 team. If that's not good enough to offset bad team defence I don't know what is.
     
  12. Bieber fever

    Bieber fever Registered User

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    The rebuild is actually easy.Habs only need to trade 2-3 players imo.Weber , MaxPac and one of the bad contract (Shaw/Petry/Alnzer).Price alone wont save the habs from a lottery pick.
     
  13. Dannyhab

    Dannyhab Registered User

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    100% rebuild unless we can get a 1C and 2D and fast.

    But the idea of a rebuild excites me. Think of what we could get for Price, Pacioretty, Gallagher, Galchenyuk, Weber, Petry. Each one is a first round pick and Price and Patches would command an A prospect on top of that. I’d say after 4 years we could start to look competitive and even sooner if we get a generational player.
     
  14. Habaholicgolfer

    Habaholicgolfer Loyal Habs Fan

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    I repeat. The difference between Price and Condon was top 10 to 21st. So in other words, we had a goalie who played ECHL the year before and we still finished 21st. If we had an average goalie we likely are a bubble playoff team? This is my point, the difference between Price and the worse NHL goalies is not that much. Price is our best player but it's a team game. I don't agree we are nothing without Price. That was my point.
     
  15. Habaholicgolfer

    Habaholicgolfer Loyal Habs Fan

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    The key would be finishing near the bottom and winning a lottery in a year where there is a franchise superstar. There are risks to a rebuild that most do not see. Are you prepared for 10 years with no playoffs because that might happen.
     
  16. G0bias

    G0bias Registered User

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    Price winning basically every trophy there is behind Therrien-led teams and carrying us to multiple 100pt seasons is proof positive he's good enough to offset bad teams. This isn't even up for debate.

    I do agree he wasn't properly surrounded. He can't go out there and score for the team. That was on Bergevin for not addressing it.
     
  17. Habaholicgolfer

    Habaholicgolfer Loyal Habs Fan

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    I think the key lies in what you said.... Price is good and looks even better when we play the system we play in front of him. It's been defense first and we wonder why we can't score goals.
     
  18. HabsForHire

    HabsForHire Registered User

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    A lot of people are saying with price we cant finish low enough for a very high pick (1-5) but i disagree i dont think even price can help this team especially if we move patches and chucky
     
  19. NotProkofievian

    NotProkofievian Registered User

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    I was willing to hear Bergevin out for one last off-season after being initially pro-rebuild after our playoff exit. It's just that we don't have a realistic shot, and if we did, it's not Bergy who's going to find it. I'll still watch when I can, but being in Europe sucks. I bought myself the Liiga package so I can scout finnish players for the draft and keep an eye on Ikonen. Having guys like Radulov and Subban made it different - win or lose, at least it was a good show. But now my habs fandom has become more about what's going to happen next for our team.

    Before the season my prediction was that we'd make the playoffs, but be unable to compete once we got there. Unless this start spirals out of control I'd say that's our ballpark, fighting for a playoff spot but not much else. But you do mention something here that bears repeating. People, whether you love him or hate him we need what Galchenyuk represents - what he could be. If he sucks this year or is traded for scraps that's really it. 417's most feverish Drouin dreams could come true and we'd be a bottom 10 team.
     
  20. Natey

    Natey #iconicduo

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    Nah, lets just help other teams rebuild. Maybe we can send Galchenyuk to someone for a 4th liner. We sent Sven for an AHL'er and now he's scored 20 points in 23 games. :laugh:
     
  21. WG

    WG Registered User

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    The team was not 21st without Price. They finished 21st overall after starting off red hot with Price playing. From the day Price went down for good vs. NYR, Montreal was 30th in the league, their pace was 10 points below Leafs/Oilers teams that were not even pretending about trying to win. Team literally went from 1st overall before, to dead last after Price was gone. It wasn't all Condon, there was the small matter of going two months in Dec/Jan and not managing to average 2 GF/G and having the entire roster tune out the piss poor coach. But the whole team dynamic went straight into the garbage without Price to bail everybody out.
     
  22. Habaholicgolfer

    Habaholicgolfer Loyal Habs Fan

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    Actually, Condon had better numbers vs Price in the first few months. The team fell flat when Price went down the 2nd time and they realized it was a serious injury. Gallagher also got hurt too. That was December of 2015! Condon deserves just as much credit to their great start as Price. Go look at the games in October and November for yourself.

    How do you explain Lindgren's excellent NHL stats so far? It's a small sample size but the evidence is there for when we have a good goalie, our defense first system prevails ;)
     
  23. Habaholicgolfer

    Habaholicgolfer Loyal Habs Fan

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    Take the Flames off the list. They got a good one in Smith. Jets and Flyers I agree with. Add the Sabres
     
  24. G0bias

    G0bias Registered User

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    He has 3 games under his belt across 2 years... that's hardly evidence of anything, let alone our system.

    Smith is 35. He won't be there when Gaudreau, Bennett, Tkachuk, Monahan hit their primes.
     
  25. Habaholicgolfer

    Habaholicgolfer Loyal Habs Fan

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    1) Lindgren is a very good NHL goalie and his stats can't be overlook. He single-handily (I'll use your terminology) took our AHL team to the playoffs last year. That's saying a lot because our AHL team was not very good. Then when you compare his stats in the NHL on a team that is "nothing without Price" he should be taken very seriously according to your standards.

    2) Flames are very happy with Smith for a few years. They would be out of the Price sweepstakes if we decide to rebuild this season.
     

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