Is GG system working?

IS GG system working

  • Yes, we are just unlucky

    Votes: 4 12.9%
  • No, we cant score a goal to save our life or play defense at the same time

    Votes: 15 48.4%
  • Yes, it's the stupid players that cant execute

    Votes: 1 3.2%
  • I dont know, what system is it?

    Votes: 5 16.1%
  • No, are you kidding? Have you been watching our special teams?

    Votes: 6 19.4%

  • Total voters
    31

Mobiandi

Registered User
Jan 17, 2015
20,844
17,200
No, and I don't know how anyone can say differently. It hasn't been working all season, with the exception of a handful of games. I also don't buy the "dominant" performances that we've been churning out lately, despite what the advanced stats say

If they don't turn things around quickly, then it's extremely possible the players will start tuning out GG and things will go from bad to worse.

This also falls on the players. They completely freeze up when there's the slightest bit of adversity or pressure. Look no further than our home record vs on the road.

Sad how we haven't made any progress at all from last season. Best Flames team on paper in years and we're behind an injury riddled Anaheim team working their asses off and playing good hockey.
 

Baxterman

Registered User
Aug 27, 2017
6,939
1,499
From what I have read on this site from the GG apologists is that it works when the team is winning but when the team is losing then it is because they aren't following GG's system.

So there needs to be an option for Yes its an amazing system that has the team undefeated when they follow this wonder system that nobody else can figure out but unfortunately for GG the genius the team constantly refuses to follow it so only the GG fanboys on this site can realize just how amazing it is.
 

Sparky93

Registered User
Dec 30, 2010
7,002
1,040
I don’t think GG’s system is bad necessarily, the players we have are just not suited for it. The dismal special teams play is 100% on the coaching staff. That being said, the players need to shoulder some of the responsibility. This team puts in a 60 minute effort about every 6 games. The rest of the time they split between showing up for 40, sometimes only 20. I’ve never put much faith in it being the coaches responsibility to mentally prepare players for games, this falls solely on the players. If they can’t come to the rink, ready to play, there’s a bigger problem than GG.
 

Mobiandi

Registered User
Jan 17, 2015
20,844
17,200
A huge problem that we still have is that we play safe, calculated hockey. We have the most offensively talented Dmen in the league after Nashville and they're hardly ever involved in the offensive zone. Doesn't make any sense why the system hamstrings them so much when we already have enough problems scoring
 

SmellOfVictory

Registered User
Jun 3, 2011
10,959
653
Special teams have been bad, and that's due at least in part to coaching. Even strength systems have been mostly fine. The players are getting into scoring areas, they're maintaining possession reasonably well, and at least half the team does a decent job of limiting shots (exceptions include the Brodie/Hamonic pairing until recently and the bottom 6). The issue, at least from the last handful of games, is that they can't get the puck in the net. I fail to see how it's a systems issue when you get a player within 10 feet of the net and he can't either hit the net or get it past the goalie.
 

djpatm

Registered User
Feb 2, 2010
2,525
929
Calgary
Both No options please.

Its going to be hilarious when we give NYI a top 10 pick at this pace.
 

SmellOfVictory

Registered User
Jun 3, 2011
10,959
653
The core doesn’t fit the system in my opinion.

Doesn’t make it a bad system, doesn’t make our core bad.

Just feels very square peg, round hole.
Maybe to some degree. I think the top 6 and top pairing have done perfectly well under the system. The rest of the team, however, has struggled with it, and I don't know how much is a poor fit and how much might be them just underperforming individually.
 

Skobel24

#Ignited
May 23, 2008
16,789
920
Winnipeg
I really want GG to stop trying to force the Brodie - Hamonic pairing into being a second 1st pairing. Put Stone back with Brodie, slot Hamonic with Kulak. The Flames don't need two top pairings. Splitting up Brodie and Hamonic can give the Flames more depth. Essentially two second pairings.
 
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lightstorm

Registered User
Oct 17, 2016
2,239
1,191
Im not even sure GG's system is the right one for this team when it "works" - we have players to play up tempo in your face game, yet we play this timid "safe" hockey, scared to make a mistake and neutered to take a penalty.
 

Johnny Hoxville

The Return of a Legend
Jul 15, 2006
37,549
9,343
Calgary
I know Gully has a system, I just don’t know exactly what it is, it is like structured chaos. I do know it’s very rigid and doesn’t allow for flexibility from player to player. Only recently has Bennett shown any offensive life, Brouwer is being forced to play a way that has never brought him any success. The D pairings are not gelling and Brodie is not allowed to play on the side he’s been the most comfortable on throughout his career. Truly I’d say Monahan is the only player who has absolutely flourished.

The media is always told it’s about the process and the results will come, that’s excuse we are always being fed. It bothers me that the coaching staff keeps stuffing Corn Flakes down everyone’s mouths, when Frosted Flakes might be more agreeable to everyone. It took how long to move Bennett to the wing? By the time the faults that are being are recognized, it’ll be to late. Yes, square pegs in round holes.

I also can’t stand how Backlund had to cut his sweet flo.
 

JPeeper

Hail Satan!
Jan 4, 2015
11,531
8,635
Obvious answer is no. When you continually dominate possession stats and Corsi, yet score 0 or 1 goal a game, it isn't working because that will never win you games.

And the "well they get a lot of good chances" argument is stupid because who cares about chances when nothing is converted. If nothing is ever converted outside of Monahan occasionally stepping up then it is completely flawed. I can believe puck luck exists, but through 40 games you have to stop blaming puck luck or "things will turn around". No, change something. Nothing is ever changed.

For all the people who say that GG is a smart hockey mind, the guy must be a complete moron outside of hockey because in real life if I got poor results for 100 games (yes I am counting last year because in regulation we're a .500 team) you change something, you actually change it way before that. I couldn't give two shits how good we are at advanced stats 5 on 5 if we have nothing to show for it. Our PP has been trash since day 1 yet we still use the same stupid strategy and personnel. It's ludicrous.

I honestly have no idea how GG has any supporters at all. They can't name one good thing he has done; "oh they have good advanced stats". Yeah, and that has them outside of the playoffs, and we lucked into a spot last year. He is sooo good.
 

Tkachuk Norris

Registered User
Jun 22, 2012
15,602
6,639
Yes. I still have faith in Gully’s system (which I consider 5 on 5 play).

We need a new pp coach though. Maybe pk too.
 

Fig

Absolute Horse Shirt
Dec 15, 2014
12,957
8,449
Pros

GG's theories as most of us have determined, are fine (Hold defense blue line, rely on movement of puck to speed puck up the ice rather than player movement). Far more than what Hartley offered as system.
Several players (Chiasson and Versteeg) have openly stated they rediscovered their love of the game after playing under GG. One can assume other players enjoy playing under him. (ie: Jagr+)
GG's system has ridiculously low man days lost per season

Cons
GG's killer instinct is non existent. Totally opposite to Hartley.
GG's system seems like a mismatch for the roster. Hartley's system may have been overly simplistic, but it matched the roster
GG's system seems to have a serious Achilles heel. IMO the players are often caught flat footed due to the design of the system
GG's system seems like it's never deployed. Is it too complicated? Mismatch to roster?

Those saying GG doesn't change must be watching something different than me. IMO, GG changes too often, not too little.
- Runs lines through a blender to a fault at times
- Went from super complicated to super simple system last season (I can sorta agree with the non-changes in the playoffs though)
- Completely overhauls the system to integrate Smith's play style this season

And he doesn't adjust?
 

Johnny Hoxville

The Return of a Legend
Jul 15, 2006
37,549
9,343
Calgary
No I don’t think he does adjust much, it’s more of, getting everyone to play the system how they’re supposed to.

Also Hartleys system fit our roster because he designed one that would. But it was never meant to last once teams adjusted and figured out how to defend and he never adjusted accordingly.
 

OvermanKingGainer

#BennettFreed #CurseofTheSpulll #FreeOliver
Feb 3, 2015
16,133
7,107
2022 Cup to Calgary
Whether it's working or not, I think our system is a bit too dependent on the other team's goalie not having a great night. I always felt we saw far more wide open nets under Bob Hartley, even if we saw less shots overall.
 

Pekkas Purse

Registered User
Feb 2, 2010
126
1
I'm wondering if anyone realizes offensively this is a 2 man team. Could that be the issue? Is this really that good a team on paper? They lack heart IMO. Its more than the system. We've seen this for years with this crew. Jagr needs to retire. I think the question is how to add to the squad? EK rumors Buffalo.
 

OvermanKingGainer

#BennettFreed #CurseofTheSpulll #FreeOliver
Feb 3, 2015
16,133
7,107
2022 Cup to Calgary
I'm wondering if anyone realizes offensively this is a 2 man team. Could that be the issue?

Gaudreau, Bennett, Ferland, Brodie, Hamilton, Giordano, Tkachuk, Jankowski, Backlund, Monahan, Stone. On paper this is anything but a two-man team.

Is this really that good a team on paper?

On paper this is a top 5 team in the NHL. If they have any issue it's poor player utilization. We haven't even unleashed Mangiapane into the wild yet.

They lack heart IMO.

This team oozes heart.

We've seen this for years with this crew.

What we've seen with this crew for years has been terrible and unpredictable luck mixed with a few mind-numbingly bad moves that end up tanking this team (Waiving Paul Byron in 2015, Signing Brouwer in 2016, Signing Bartkowski in 2017)

2014-15 was probably a team that could have given the Ducks a serious challenge, especially with David Schlemko completing our third defense pair after the brutal Smid-Engelland third pair killed us for half the season. But without Mark Giordano we were screwed before the series even started. Giordano was the best defenseman in the NHL that year, and we didn't have him for the playoffs.

2015-16 was probably a team that could have made the WCF or better, but the Byron waiving followed by the fact we were screwed by some of the worst goaltending in history from Jonas Hiller a year after he gave us solid league-average goaltending. The refusal to use Wideman as a #6D with Brett Kulak was probably the other killer that year, as Wideman-Engelland was a brutal third pair. If that team had Paul Byron and league-average goaltending they would have been killer.

2016-17 was probably a team that should have made the SCF or better, but we were screwed by the brutal Bartkowski-Engelland pair and Brian Elliott having a cold streak at the worst time of year. If Elliott had been on one of his hot streaks, we don't lose many games to the Ducks, Oilers. Nashville and Pittsburgh would have been good challenges.

2017-18 is probably a top 5 team in the NHL currently being screwed by coaching staff's stubborn refusal to make changes to the power play and by some terrible shooting percentages to damn good players. It happens. The Kings won two cups as basically 8th seeds. The Preds were basically an 8th seed last year. As nice as it would be to cruise to a President's Trophy, the Canucks and Capitals have shown us that means very little these days. Making the playoffs while being a good team (which we are) is all that matters. We just have to get into the playoffs. And it's going to come off the back of our U25 players, not hired gun vets like Frolik, Hamonic, and Brouwer.

Jagr needs to retire.

Lol he still dominates. Only thing he needs is better puck luck, as he has a low shooting percentage.

I think the question is how to add to the squad?

- Sticking with it and not making knee jerk moves unless you win a lopsided trade
- Sam Bennett flanked by Gaudreau and Ferland for a true elite and dynamic first line
- More starts for David Rittich so Smith can be fresh in April / May / June.
- Potential callups for Oliver Kylington, Andrew Mangiapane, Dillon Dube, Matthew Phillips, Rasmus Andersson, Marek Hrivik, Emile Poirier, Morgan Klimchuk, and Spencer Foo come playoff time.
[mod]
 
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Flameshomer

Likeaholic
Aug 26, 2010
3,830
1,039
Edmonton
I'm not going to touch the rest of that post, but let's go over just the end there:

Lol he still dominates. Only thing he needs is better puck luck, as he has a low shooting percentage.

Truth, Jagr has been great- how you can watch the games and not see him dominate people is beyond me. You can tell he's getting tired but he's still a beast, and I truly believe the confidence he game benny and Janko is the real reason behind their new found power.

- Sticking with it and not making knee jerk moves unless you win a lopsided trade
Totally fair, GMs often get burned in panic trades. Doesn't mean treliving shouldn't be shopping though (as he always is)

- Sam Bennett flanked by Gaudreau and Ferland for a true elite and dynamic first line
This... well this is foolish. Bennett has not once looked like a productive/ even remotely positive NHL centre. However, he has looked great on the wing (in his first season, and the last 19 games since they made the switch this season). Why would we risk his confidence when he's clearly succeeding and vibing right now with a pretty high quality centre in Jankowski?? Oh wait I remember... It's only to fit your Monahan is a winger agenda.

- More starts for David Rittich so Smith can be fresh in April / May / June.
Yep, agreed. In fact I would like them to start playing hot hand- give rittich a few in a row so we can really see what he's made of. Smith's five hole has looked extremely weak recently.

- Potential callups for Oliver Kylington, Andrew Mangiapane, Dillon Dube, Matthew Phillips, Rasmus Andersson, Marek Hrivik, Emile Poirier, Morgan Klimchuk, and Spencer Foo come playoff time.
This part is where it gets good. Do you really think we could win a single game with all or even half of these players dressed? You're insane if you do. The bolded have next to no chance of playing for the big club this year IMO. Kylington might, but only if there's an extended injury. Poirier, Klimchuk, and Foo don't deserve to really be in the conversation at the moment. Maybe next year but even then they're fringe at best with their current level of play. Dube looks great, but he's still developing. Let him dominate junior and we'll talk. Phillips makes johnny look like a mafia enforcer, I'm tickled pink that you think he would last more than one period in the nhl.[mod]
 
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Baxterman

Registered User
Aug 27, 2017
6,939
1,499
Truth, Jagr has been great- how you can watch the games and not see him dominate people is beyond me. You can tell he's getting tired but he's still a beast, and I truly believe the confidence he game benny and Janko is the real reason behind their new found power.

Great????

If anything he has shown that this was the one year too long that he ended up staying. He has been ok in the offensive zone on the cycle but even in the offensive zone the passes have been just ok and he hasn't been dangerous at all shooting.

Defensively and away from the puck he is a disaster. He is unbelievably slow out there. Maybe it is because he is so big it makes him look slower but he looks like a beer leaguer out there at times trying to play defense.

Perhaps it has been his injuries holding him back but whatever the reasons he has not looked close to be adequate let alone great.
 

Flameshomer

Likeaholic
Aug 26, 2010
3,830
1,039
Edmonton
Great????

If anything he has shown that this was the one year too long that he ended up staying. He has been ok in the offensive zone on the cycle but even in the offensive zone the passes have been just ok and he hasn't been dangerous at all shooting.

Defensively and away from the puck he is a disaster. He is unbelievably slow out there. Maybe it is because he is so big it makes him look slower but he looks like a beer leaguer out there at times trying to play defense.

Perhaps it has been his injuries holding him back but whatever the reasons he has not looked close to be adequate let alone great.

I will admit that he looks objectively slow as molasses, but I will counter that the stats show that he is still a net benefit to our team in possession terms:
CF%: 54.0 FF%: 52.8 both at even strength. So the balance of events while he's on ice is largely positive. I think this is another case of you seeing what you want to see. Not very surprising.
Jaromir Jagr Stats | Hockey-Reference.com
 

Baxterman

Registered User
Aug 27, 2017
6,939
1,499
I will admit that he looks objectively slow as molasses, but I will counter that the stats show that he is still a net benefit to our team in possession terms:
CF%: 54.0 FF%: 52.8 both at even strength. So the balance of events while he's on ice is largely positive. I think this is another case of you seeing what you want to see. Not very surprising.
Jaromir Jagr Stats | Hockey-Reference.com

I am not surprised that the possession numbers look good with him as that is definitely one thing he is still great at keeping that puck once he gets it.

The problem is that there is a hell of a lot more to the game than possession and he seems to be very much struggling in those areas.

7 points and 1 goal in 19 games is not very impressive at all. I don't think anyone can argue that he is a benefit defensively. So if all we have is possession that doesn't seem like much to say that he has been great.
 

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