Discussion in 'Mixed Martial Arts' started by HansonBro, May 18, 2017.
Didn't we all expect more?
I was watching a show with him today showing 7 of his memorable fights. I actually think if people look back over his entire career they'd be pretty surprised/impressed with all he accomplished.
He beat Sylvia (who I realize is a joke win now) when was 16-0, seemingly unbeatable, and the champ. In under a minute no less.
Came back from a brutal motorcycle accident and beat Lesnar a few fights later. Then in his next fight he was the first guy to ever finish Big Nog. Then went on to win 4 of his next 6 against Kongo, Cro Cop, Big Country, and Big Nog (first to sub him this time). And competed in 5 title/interim title fights.
Was definitely pretty much all downhill from there, but that's a pretty impressive resume for a guy who wasn't terribly big/strong/athletic, with mediocre standup and below average wrestling.
I think all things considered he actually had quite an impressive career.
You mean for a former champ (interim I guess it was)? I guess it depends on your criteria. Erick Silva and Uriah Hall are much bigger disappointments imo since they had a ton of potential but never really went anywhere, Hall's win over Mousasi notwithstanding.
Denis Kang, Yoshihiro Akiyama, Erick Silva, Uriah Hall.
Honestly, i'd consider throwing Jon Jones into this mix as well... not because of his talent, but because he's a mess.
He went 16-11 over a 15 year span in the UFC while technically holding titles on 2 separate occasions, fighting in title fights five times, and some major wins over MMA legends...all while not being all that gifted athletically IMO. His 16 wins put him tied for 8th of all time, and is the most in the heavyweight division of all time. Moreover, he remained a contender in the heavyweight division throughout all the various iterations of the division.
Should he have accomplished a bit more? Perhaps, but all told he's had a damn fine career. You could probably make a weak case for him in the UFC HOF. I know I certainly wrote him off multiple times only to eat crow.
I agree with the points being made. I guess the thread title is a bit misleading. He's my biggest disappointment because I liked him so much, he was my favorite fighter for a long time. But watching a guy with so much talent show up to a fight out of shape, try to box with people he had no business doing so and then gassing himself by the end of the first round was a shame to watch sometimes. The guy had a gift in his bjj not many heavyweights had but I don't think he utilized it enough.
I think a lot of people feel the same way about BJ Penn.
He seemed to wilt in big fights in his career, at least in the latter 1/2 of his career. He was just never quite good enough. Not quite strong enough, boxing not quite good enough and his wrestling wasn't good enough.
I think he had the most dangerous ground game I've ever seen from a UFC fighter though. Not necessarily the best all around, but scariest. If he was able to get a limb you were either tapping or he was taking it with him.
Difference is that BJ Penn was the best lightweight in the world for a significant period of time. I'm not sure Mir was ever the best heavyweight. I guess when he beat Sylvia, but we'll never really know because he never had a chance to defend the title.
I remember a quote by him from a long time ago where says "I don't train to make people tap. I train to break limbs and make people bleed". Something like that anyways
He's no Roger Huerta.
I've never liked Mir, but his career is far from disappointing. Sure, it could have been a bit better. 2 things derailed more success, the accident, and Brock Lesnar.
The accident is obvious.
Brock - era brought in big dudes. Mir was never a huge HW. Once Brock won the title, Mir started his "help" cycles and put on 30lbs of muscles. He had limited success against older fighters and guys that didn't move, but abandoned his successful style and was unable to compete against the best of the division.
Brock vs Mir 2 was one of the most one sided, brutal fights i have ever seen.
The day he decided to put on weight before the Carwin fight instead or dropping to 205, he ruined everything.
He became way too slow to have a decent stand-up game imo.
As mentioned above, Yoshihiro Akiyama was WAY more disappointing.
I'll even go one step further; Penn was largely considered the best P4P fighter in the world at one point, before the term was regularly thrown around. To me, that makes Penn even more of a disappointment than Mir.
i can never be disapointed in a heavyweight, because that's the division where i expect the least consistency out of the majority of its fighters. That's why no one has ever defended the UFC HW belt more than 2 times.
Nobody disappoints me more than Hector Lombard.
Nah. In terms of skill, it might be Gabriel Gonzaga. Frank Mir has held the heavyweight title and the interim title along with fighting for the belt on a different occasion. He's been a solid top ten guy for so long.
In terms of skill, Erick Silva is there too. He has amazing BJJ and has legit KO power. He's more of the brawler mindset though and is chinny.
It just depends how you want to define "disappointment". Frank Mir exceeded expectations. Jon Jones is the best fighter of all-time. Hard to call them disappointments.
A few guys that meet my requirements:
Brandon Vera. Really seemed like he would be the new breed of fighter. You look at his losses, and his career really isn't that bad.. he's mainly lost to the best. Got robbed vs Couture, too. He just never really showed the killer instinct in the cage you would have wanted.
Anthony Pettis. Hard to call a guy who was UFC champion in the deepest division in the sport a disappointment, but I really thought he was going to hold the belt for a long time. The way RDA just took him down and dominated him for 25 minutes was one of the more surprising things I've seen in the UFC.
I also remember a prospects thread in this forum years ago, where people mentioned some guys they thought would be future stars. I picked two - Renan Barao (hit) and Maximo Blanco (miss). So, Blanco makes my personal list. Thought he would be a future elite guy.
Blanco... super athletic dude, doesn't have have bad cardio... if only he had good fight IQ, if only...
What I was about to say. Lesnar broke him in their 2nd fight, physically and mentally.
Don't think he broke him. He had a fairly impressive career after. I don't think he beats those guys regardless of his loss to Lesnar. He lost to Josh Barnett, Alistair Overeem, Junior dos Santos, Daniel Cormier, Mark Hunt and Andrei Arlovski (questionable). His wins since are Mirko Cro Cop, Cheik Kongo, Roy Nelson, Big Nog again, Big Foot Silva and Todd Duffee.
Frank Mir has had a really good career.
Hard to call any UFC champ a disappointment. He reached the pinnacle.
Penn is easily the biggest disappointment of all time in MMA. An all-world talent with awful motivation.
You don't think Mir"s in the same boat, if not worse?
Personally, I think Mir made a strategic mistake during the midway point of his career when it seems he decided to bulk up
Yeah, at the time the division featured mammoth wrestlers like Lesnar and Carwin, but Mir's game was rooted in BJJ. He should've been focusing on flexibility and endurance
When he fought Barnett, I was amazed at how much slower and stiffer Mir was compared to Barnett
Biggest disappointment though? No, I don't think so
I think he'll find himself in the UFC Hall of Fame one day
achievement per talent ratio, i'd say Mir overchieved if anything
Brock whooped his ass and Brock ain't no joke. Still pretty good fighter.