Is Elias the best LW of the last 30 years?

[Peter25]

I dont care...First the guy with 500 pts is not the greatest LW in the last 30 yrs...there are a few with over 1000pts....

Second if playoff is matter, there are plenty of others also...Claude Lemieux, John Tonelli, Esa Tiskanen for example, nobody said they are the greatest...and I dont remember Elias winning any Conn Smythe trophy...he is an important member of those winning team but not the key player...

Elias was the best player in the 2000 playoffs. It was a travesty he was robbed from the Conn Smythe.

 

[DFF]

Elias was the best player in the 2000 playoffs. It was a travesty he was robbed from the Conn Smythe.

yes, and I like Elias a lot, but almost does not make the best player in the last 30 yrs....when you proclaim to be the best there is a lot of competition....

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

You want to know how to separate Elias from Nazzy, Kariya, Andreychuk and LeClair? Elias was a key player on two Stanley Cup championship teams. The other four combined for one ring. Elevating your play when it counts is the first and truest sign of greatest. And in the end, winning matters.

Andreychuk and LeClair each have a Cup. Both were key players in the playoffs for their team — DA as the Bolts' emotional leader and JL by, among other goals, scoring two straight OT game winners in the '93 Finals. Both have numbers — DA is 2nd highest scoring LW of all time; JL 3 straight 50-goal seasons, 5 straight 40-goal seasons. Both possessed a complete, 2-end game, and JL was/is a huge physical presence to boot.

I'm not here to make arguments one over another, just to suggest that it's not as easy as one might like to say "best of the last 30 years" when there's so much competition, even is his own era.

And winning matters, sure, but isn't the sole criteria to make a judgment. Are Tony Parker and Derek Fisher greater point guards than John Stockton or Jason Kidd? Were Jeff Hostetler or Trent Dilfer better quarterbacks than Dan Marino?

 

[turnbuckle*]

Elias is better than soem because he has more Cups? Please!! I guess Wayne Merrick, Pierre Mondou, Mike Krushelnyski, etc. were better than Marcel Dionne because they won more Cups.

Stevens, Neidermayer and Brodeur had nothing to do with the Devils' Cups, Elias was the sole reason they won I suppose.

Yet another post with a total disregard for the past, and as far as Propp being second....even more of a joke - he's not even the second best Flyer left winger in the past 30 years. Played during the high scoring 80's which resulted in players like Ciccarelli and Gartner being on all-time goal-scoring lists even though there have been a pile of players much better than them through hockey's history.

Goulet
Shutt
Gainey
Hull
Naslund
Shanahan
Kharlamov
Krutov
Barber
Leclair

He may soon be in a group with Propp, Gillies, Ramsay, Kariya, Andreychuk, Ramsay, Tonelli, and Robitaille after the top ten, but IMO he needs a couple more solid seasons before he's in that group.

 

[V-2 Schneider]

The best LW's since 1976 are:

Shutt
Goulet
Robitaille
Barber

Just another level down:

LeClair
Kariya
Shanahan
Larmer

 

[God Bless Canada]

Elias is better than soem because he has more Cups? Please!! I guess Wayne Merrick, Pierre Mondou, Mike Krushelnyski, etc. were better than Marcel Dionne because they won more Cups.

Stevens, Neidermayer and Brodeur had nothing to do with the Devils' Cups, Elias was the sole reason they won I suppose.

Yet another post with a total disregard for the past, and as far as Propp being second....even more of a joke - he's not even the second best Flyer left winger in the past 30 years. Played during the high scoring 80's which resulted in players like Ciccarelli and Gartner being on all-time goal-scoring lists even though there have been a pile of players much better than them through hockey's history.

Goulet
Shutt
Gainey
Hull
Naslund
Shanahan
Kharlamov
Krutov
Barber
Leclair

He may soon be in a group with Propp, Gillies, Ramsay, Kariya, Andreychuk, Ramsay, Tonelli, and Robitaille after the top ten, but IMO he needs a couple more solid seasons before he's in that group.

I said he played a key role in Cup champions, not just that he won two Cups. He was likely the Devils top forward in 2000 (Scott Stevens was a shoo-in for playoff MVP). Played a pretty key role in 2003. Winning a Cup is great, but being a key part of a Cup champion - as an MVP, top forward/defenceman, No. 1 goalie, go-to player, clutch scorer or captain - cement a player's legacy. He played pretty well for New Jersey when they made it to the finals in 2001.

I apologize, I did forget about LeClair's win in 1993. I can't believe I forgot about a guy who scored two overtime goals in the Stanley Cup final. (Anyone else who'd want that on their hockey resume?)

I think we're 10 years away from being able to answer this question. I don't think Elias is as far off as some might think, due to his winner's mentality, clutch play and defensive acumen. I said off the top that Bob Gainey is the best LW from the last 30 years (best defensive forward ever, Conn Smythe Trophy, six Stanley Cups, once referred to as the best player in the game by a Soviet coach), and I don't think Elias will pass Gainey, or Shanahan for that matter.

But to suggest that one day we might rate him as one of the very best LWs in the post-expansion era (since 1967) is not that outlandish. He's had an excellent start. And even though Naslund has the all-star team selections, I'd rate Elias as the best left winger of the decade. The playoffs push him over the top.

And for those who are new to this part of the forum, reckoning is one of the best around, and a poster who has an incredible amount of respect for the history of the game.

 

[canucksfan]

Elias was the best player in the 2000 playoffs. It was a travesty he was robbed from the Conn Smythe.

Stevens deserved the Conn Smythe that year.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I apologize, I did forget about LeClair's win in 1993. I can't believe I forgot about a guy who scored two overtime goals in the Stanley Cup final. (Anyone else who'd want that on their hockey resume?)

I think we're 10 years away from being able to answer this question. I don't think Elias is as far off as some might think, due to his winner's mentality, clutch play and defensive acumen. I said off the top that Bob Gainey is the best LW from the last 30 years (best defensive forward ever, Conn Smythe Trophy, six Stanley Cups, once referred to as the best player in the game by a Soviet coach), and I don't think Elias will pass Gainey, or Shanahan for that matter.

But to suggest that one day we might rate him as one of the very best LWs in the post-expansion era (since 1967) is not that outlandish. He's had an excellent start. And even though Naslund has the all-star team selections, I'd rate Elias as the best left winger of the decade. The playoffs push him over the top.

And for those who are new to this part of the forum, reckoning is one of the best around, and a poster who has an incredible amount of respect for the history of the game.

Elias' potential to be among the best at his position, I can agree with. And I'm not suggesting we take reckoning to task for this thread. In fact, that's what's cool about these discussions, that someone else will remember what I may have overlooked. Kharlamov seems endemic to this discussion now, but I'm not sure I would have thought of it had someone else not posted it.

All that said, I'm giving my "last 30 years" nod to Steve Shutt.

 

[chooch*]

Elias' potential to be among the best at his position, I can agree with. And I'm not suggesting we take reckoning to task for this thread. In fact, that's what's cool about these discussions, that someone else will remember what I may have overlooked. Kharlamov seems endemic to this discussion now, but I'm not sure I would have thought of it had someone else not posted it.

All that said, I'm giving my "last 30 years" nod to Steve Shutt.

As somebody who knows the Habs dynasty years well, anyone who says Shutt or Gainey is smoking something. Kharlamov aside several names jump out.

But I'd like to ask - by what criteria is Shutt better than Leclair?

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

As somebody who knows the Habs dynasty years well, anyone who says Shutt or Gainey is smoking something. Kharlamov aside several names jump out.

But I'd like to ask - by what criteria is Shutt better than Leclair?

This is what I get for finally taking a position, following several posts that indicated that this was a difficult chore because of the number of outstanding players, including, I believe, the first post to mention Johnny V. I waded through career stat lines and came upon any number of players for whom you could make a case as the best LW of even the past 10 years.

Ultimately, it was a gut call. The measurables left too many in the picture, so I had to go with something.

 

[Murphy]

And for those who are new to this part of the forum, reckoning is one of the best around, and a poster who has an incredible amount of respect for the history of the game.

Agreed, and his question sparked one hell of an interesting thread.


So, ummm, where does Wendel Clark rank?

 

[VanIslander]

he's no Bobby Hull but... in the last twenty years

he is deservedly up there with Naslund, Shanahan, Leclair

 

[JCD]

Even as a Flyers fan, I really don't tink LeClair deserves as much credit as he is getting here. He was a good player, but he fed off Lindros. Take away Lindros, LeClair looks far more ordinary. Still solid in his day, but no where near an elite level.

More so, other than his Matteau-esque exploits as a 3rd liner for the Habs on year, his play-off career was pretty wretched.

 

[JCD]

As somebody who knows the Habs dynasty years well, anyone who says Shutt or Gainey is smoking something. Kharlamov aside several names jump out.

But I'd like to ask - by what criteria is Shutt better than Leclair?

Gainey wasn't great? The guy the Russians said was the best player in the world wasn't one of the best LWs in the last 30 years.

As for Shutt over LeClair, lets try play-off performance and go from there.

 

[Badger Bob]

8. Craig Ramsay: If anything this ranking is too low; imagine Gainey with a better scoring touch but without all the Montreal HOF teammates.

Huh? On the Sabres second line, Danny Gare was the one with the scoring touch. Ramsay focused on the defensive aspects of his game, because he was not a sniper. Gainey did alone what it took Luce and Ramsey to do together on the PK. Ramsay got plenty of good ink, because whenever there was a story out of the Sabres locker room, Ramsay was always the source. Simple, really. He gave the scribes something to write about, and then they wrote well of him.

He was a good player, but he fed off Lindros. Take away Lindros, LeClair looks far more ordinary.

Leclair was far from ordinary in '96 World Cup. That was his real coming out party. Lindros was, of course, part of the opposition.

 

[BM67]

Huh? On the Sabres second line, Danny Gare was the one with the scoring touch. Ramsay focused on the defensive aspects of his game, because he was not a sniper. Gainey did alone what it took Luce and Ramsey to do together on the PK. Ramsay got plenty of good ink, because whenever there was a story out of the Sabres locker room, Ramsay was always the source. Simple, really. He gave the scribes something to write about, and then they wrote well of him.

Strange how Montreal had better checkers, a better defense and better goaltending, but still had a lesser PK than Buffalo.

During Ramsay's career Buffalo had a 82.6 PK% and it was 83.0% while he and Luce were in Buffalo. During Gainey's career Montreal had a 81.4% PK and 82.9% while Gainey and Jarvis were in Montreal.

A 1980 players poll published in the book "NHL The World Of Professional Ice Hockey" had Gainey as the best defensive forward, but he was 3rd to Ramsay and Luce in best penalty killer.

Selke voting 77-78 to 84-85
Bob Gainey 861 (1st: 4; 2nd: 1 3rd: 0)
Craig Ramsay 614 (1st: 1; 2nd: 3; 3rd: 2)

80-81 to 84-85 Ramsay had more Selke votes than Gainey.

+/-
Ramsay +328 (never a minus in 14 years)
Gainey +196 (twice a minus player)

Offense
Ramsay 0.236 goals/game; 0.393 assists/game; 0.628 points/game
Gainey 0.206 goals/game; 0.226 assists/game; 0.432 points/game

Ramsay had 8 straight years with more points than Gainey had in his best year. Of the 12 years that both were playing Gainey topped Ramsay in goals 3 times, assists once, and points twice, all in the last 3 years of Ramsay's career.

 

[Badger Bob]

Strange how Montreal had better checkers, a better defense and better goaltending, but still had a lesser PK than Buffalo.

Later, you mention:

80-81 to 84-85 Ramsay had more Selke votes than Gainey.

As far as better goaltending, we're talking Bunny Laraque (Vezina w/ Sevigny & Herrron, '81) and Steve Penney vs. Donny Edwards/Bob Sauve (Vezina '80), Jacques Cloutier and Tom Barraso (Vezina, '84, 2x runner-up). Sabres win. No wonder Scotty Bowman relocated to Western New York. The goaltending in Montreal between Ken Dryden and Patrick Roy was, well, spotty. Scotty saw the handwriting on the wall.

During Ramsay's career Buffalo had a 82.6 PK% and it was 83.0% while he and Luce were in Buffalo. During Gainey's career Montreal had a 81.4% PK and 82.9% while Gainey and Jarvis were in Montreal.

Is this a contradiction to the notion that Gainey did alone what Luce and Ramsay did together? Luce and Ramsay were a tandem. Jarvis obviously was not on the level, as a partner, to that pair. What would Luce or Ramsay have done without the other? Speculatively, things might've been somewhat different if Gil Perreault had been called upon to spend more time on the PK. Admittedly, it's pure conjecture.

A 1980 players poll published in the book "NHL The World Of Professional Ice Hockey" had Gainey as the best defensive forward, but he was 3rd to Ramsay and Luce in best penalty killer.

Far be it for me to question those who actually played against them. By the same token, Bob Gainey has a plaque hanging in the HHOF. Craig Ramsay would be a paying customer at the corner of Yonge & Front.

Selke voting 77-78 to 84-85
Bob Gainey 861 (1st: 4; 2nd: 1 3rd: 0)
Craig Ramsay 614 (1st: 1; 2nd: 3; 3rd: 2)

80-81 to 84-85 Ramsay had more Selke votes than Gainey.

Not sure what the point is here. Gainey won more Selke trophies. Then, it selected years, Ramsay got more total votes. Does anybody remember 2nd and 3rd place Selke voting? Didn't think so.

+/-
Ramsay +328 (never a minus in 14 years)
Gainey +196 (twice a minus player)

So, what's your conclusion? Nobody, in the right mind, is going to argue that Ramsay was better than Gainey

Offense
Ramsay 0.236 goals/game; 0.393 assists/game; 0.628 points/game
Gainey 0.206 goals/game; 0.226 assists/game; 0.432 points/game

Ramsay had 8 straight years with more points than Gainey had in his best year. Of the 12 years that both were playing Gainey topped Ramsay in goals 3 times, assists once, and points twice, all in the last 3 years of Ramsay's career.

Nobody really brought up a comparison of the offense. Then again, Gainey probably was more than capable of delivering offense, but more than likely performed the role that the coaches established for him. When you've got teammates like Shutt, Lafleur, Lemaire and Cournyer, the scoring is pretty much covered. Once those players were all gone, Gainey had to assume a different role. Hence, he was captain in '86 on a Cup winner and in '89 on a Cup runner-up. Neither team was exactly loaded with talent. Certainly, there was a benefit from his leadership.

Gainey probably taught Guy Carbonneau everything he knows...and is still doing so. Who did Rammer (not exactly an apt nickname for his style of play) influence? Well, he might've shown Lindy Ruff how to be a good company man. Granted, Ramsay did win a Stanley Cup as an assistant coach in Tampa Bay. However, his coaching career never found firm footing. Gainey has enjoyed tremendous success as a GM, accepted a new challenge of turning around a very difficult situation in Montreal, and has to be regarded as one of hockey's most respected voices by his peers. Point being that these things count for something.

 

[reckoning]

Huh? On the Sabres second line, Danny Gare was the one with the scoring touch. Ramsay focused on the defensive aspects of his game, because he was not a sniper.

Ramsay didn`t have Gare`s scoring touch, but he was a consistent 20 goal scorer: he hit 20 before Gare came to Buffalo, he hit 20 in `77 when Gare missed over half the season, and he hit 20 after Bowman came in `79 and put them on different lines.

Gainey did alone what it took Luce and Ramsey to do together on the PK.

Gainey did it alone? He had the best faceoff man in hockey on the PK with him! Montreals PK was 5th in `75, Jarvis comes the next year and the Habs PK jumps to 2nd, then 1st the year after that. When Jarvis was traded to Washington, Montreals PK plummeted while Washingtons got a lot better.

Ramsay got plenty of good ink, because whenever there was a story out of the Sabres locker room, Ramsay was always the source. Simple, really. He gave the scribes something to write about, and then they wrote well of him.

Completely ridiculous. In Larry Robinson`s book, he said that Ramsay was Buffalos best player when they beat the Canadiens in `75. I guess that was only because Ramsay gave him some good quotes for the book.

 

[Badger Bob]

Gainey did it alone? He had the best faceoff man in hockey on the PK with him! Montreals PK was 5th in `75, Jarvis comes the next year and the Habs PK jumps to 2nd, then 1st the year after that.

Fifth overall is so terrible? Eventually, Gainey managed to find a way to sleep at night without the feed from Jarvis.

When Jarvis was traded to Washington, Montreals PK plummeted while Washingtons got a lot better.

Yeah, and their blueline stabized with the acquistion of Rod Langway too.

Completely ridiculous. In Larry Robinson`s book, he said that Ramsay was Buffalos best player when they beat the Canadiens in `75. I guess that was only because Ramsay gave him some good quotes for the book.

The comment was in reference to the beat writers from the (now defunct) Courier Express and the Buffalo (Evening) News. Hardly ridiculous.

Well, yippee for Ramsay that he had a good series against the Canadiens in '75 semis. Rob Niedermayer was the best skater in the '03 playoffs for the Mighty Ducks. Does that mean he can be favorably compared to Shanny? Did Ramsay instill fear into the Broad Street Bullies in the Finals? Seems that only Rick Dudley and Brian Spencer had the guts to go into the corners against Shultz, Saleski, et al.

 

[John Flyers Fan]

For those bringing up LeClair, he shouldn't be anywhere near the top of the list. Johnny was a good player, that was fortunate to play with a dominant player in his prime.


Billy Barber and Brian Propp were both significantly better all-around players than LeClair. LeClair is closer to being the 4th best Flyers left wing (with Gagne likely passing him) than being the best Flyers LW of the last 30 years.

 

[reckoning]

As far as better goaltending, we're talking Bunny Laraque (Vezina w/ Sevigny & Herrron, '81) and Steve Penney vs. Donny Edwards/Bob Sauve (Vezina '80), Jacques Cloutier and Tom Barraso (Vezina, '84, 2x runner-up). Sabres win. No wonder Scotty Bowman relocated to Western New York. The goaltending in Montreal between Ken Dryden and Patrick Roy was, well, spotty. Scotty saw the handwriting on the wall.

Firstly, Bowman left because he was angry at not getting the Habs GM job, not because he thought Buffalo had better goaltending. Secondly, in the Pollock thread you said that Montreal would have been just as good with other goalies than Dryden, now you`re saying goaltending was the problem after Dryden left; which is it?

Luce and Ramsay were a tandem. Jarvis obviously was not on the level, as a partner, to that pair. What would Luce or Ramsay have done without the other? Speculatively, things might've been somewhat different if Gil Perreault had been called upon to spend more time on the PK. Admittedly, it's pure conjecture.

Well, after Luce left Buffalo they were still near the top of the NHL in PK so that answers the question of how Ramsay would do without Luce. Yes, the Sabres PK probably wouldn`t have been as good with Perreault instead of Luce; then again Montreals PK wouldn`t have been as good with Larouche instead of Jarvis. What`s your point?

If you want to speculate on what-ifs then here`s one: What if Gainey gets drafted by Vancouver or St. Louis instead of Montreal; he`d still be just as good a player, but does he still get a plaque in the Hall of Fame without the Montreal Cup rings?

Hence, he was captain in '86 on a Cup winner and in '89 on a Cup runner-up. Neither team was exactly loaded with talent. Certainly, there was a benefit from his leadership.

Gainey`s leadership played a role, as did Robinson`s, but to say the `89 Habs weren`t loaded with talent? Roy, Chelios, Smith, Walter, Naslund, Richer etc.; they were one of the most talented teams in the league.

Ramsay did win a Stanley Cup as an assistant coach in Tampa Bay. However, his coaching career never found firm footing. Gainey has enjoyed tremendous success as a GM, accepted a new challenge of turning around a very difficult situation in Montreal, and has to be regarded as one of hockey's most respected voices by his peers. Point being that these things count for something.

What does someone`s coaching career have to do with their playing career. Al Arbour was a better coach than Brad Park, does that mean he was a better player?

The comment was in reference to the beat writers from the (now defunct) Courier Express and the Buffalo (Evening) News. Hardly ridiculous

You`re saying that Ramsay`s reputation around the league was because of good ink from a couple of Buffalo papers nobody outside of Buffalo ever read. That`s sounds like something chooch would say about Gretzky. Combine that with the other snide comments you made about Ramsay (taught Ruff to be a company man?) and you seem to have an obvious hatred towards him that goes deeper than his career as a hockey player.

 

[Big Phil]

Stevens if you remember was a unanimous choice for the Conn Smythe Trophy in 2000. I dont remember anyone complaining. Also in 2003 despite the Devils fans booing him JS Giguere was deserving of the Conn Smythe Trophy. Heck I think he had it won even before the '03 finals. Elias was a good player on those teams and you could make a solid argument that if he wasnt there they may not have won BOTH of them, but he is still far from the best LW in the last 30 years even in the playoffs. Steve Shutt won 5 Cups, he had 98 points in 99 playoff games. In the Habs four straight Cup wins he never had under a point a game in all four playoffs. Bill Barber scored 50 goals and 112 points in '75-76. He was a first team all-star. He was a top ten player that year. Not to mention Barber won a pair of Cups with Philly the two years before. Throw in his contributions in '76 and '80 two of the other years the Flyers made the finals and the fact that he seemed to score a lot of big goals (Game 4 '74 finals) and he's definetly ahead of Elias. Elias is not in Barber or Shutt's class.

 

[Badger Bob]

Firstly, Bowman left because he was angry at not getting the Habs GM job, not because he thought Buffalo had better goaltending.

Where did it say, "Bowman left Montreal because Buffalo had better goaltending? Let me save you the time, it didn't.

After leaving St. Louis, Bowman always took jobs with teams, which were on the verge or very well-established (Montreal, Pittsburgh, Detroit). Buffalo was kind of the exception, because better results were expected. By the same token, conditions were less-than-stellar in Montreal, during that period. He probably also recognized the fact that it was a good time to leave.

Secondly, in the Pollock thread you said that Montreal would have been just as good with other goalies than Dryden, now you`re saying goaltending was the problem after Dryden left; which is it?

Why are you making a connection when there is none? The other thread it was that Rogie or Espo could've done just as well or better than Dryden. (If somebody wants to debate it, that's why it was posted.) Here, the message was that there was spotty goaltending after Dryden left until Patrick Roy emerged.

Well, after Luce left Buffalo they were still near the top of the NHL in PK so that answers the question of how Ramsay would do without Luce. Yes, the Sabres PK probably wouldn`t have been as good with Perreault instead of Luce; then again Montreals PK wouldn`t have been as good with Larouche instead of Jarvis. What`s your point?

A joke went around Buffalo, that whenever a player wore the blue & gold, that resulted in an increase in estrogen levels. Not much that the Sabres did during the 80's was there anything to get too excited about.

If you want to speculate on what-ifs then here`s one: What if Gainey gets drafted by Vancouver or St. Louis instead of Montreal?

Again, one little comment about Perrault. Geez, it's so terrible to speculate about what might have been... Sorry it bothered you.

Gainey`s leadership played a role, as did Robinson`s, but to say the `89 Habs weren`t loaded with talent? Roy, Chelios, Smith, Walter, Naslund, Richer etc.; they were one of the most talented teams in the league.

...and Lemieux. Good team, but not exactly world beaters. For whatever it matters, the only Habs team in franchise history to allow the opposition to clinch a Cup in the Forum.

What does someone`s coaching career have to do with their playing career. Al Arbour was a better coach than Brad Park, does that mean he was a better player?

OK, you're right, it means nothing. Gainey's understanding of the defensive aspects of the game had zero influence on the Stars.

If you don't care about the comment, why mention it?

You`re saying that Ramsay`s reputation around the league was because of good ink from a couple of Buffalo papers nobody outside of Buffalo ever read.

How do you know what I'm saying? You're too busy inventing new arguments. It was about his reputation in Buffalo. You know...here he played his entire career.

Seeing as though Jim Kelley used to be the president of the Professional Hockey Writers Association, somebody must've paid attention. Why is this relevent? Well, again Ramsay was always the source for stories. Considering the team's tradition (during that era) of early spring golf, regular season plus-minus ratings amounted to squat.

That`s sounds like something chooch would say about Gretzky.

Dunno enough about chooch's posts to know. However, if he's the one who posted about Gretzky over-celebrating hat tricks against losers goalies, like Mike Luit, in 8-3 blowouts, then he deserves at least a modicrum of respect.

Combine that with the other snide comments you made about Ramsay (taught Ruff to be a company man?)

Are you denying it to be the case? At the expense of seeming immodest, if somebody else had posted that remark, I would've found it rather amusing.

and you seem to have an obvious hatred towards him that goes deeper than his career as a hockey player.

No, he just doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breadth as many of the greats and is being overrated. You took a one-sentence comment, and obviously feel a lot stronger that Ramsay got slighted by it. OK, so Ramsay was better than Gainey. That's what you wanted to hear, right? You win, dude.

 

[Popcorn_Shrimp*]

i dont think he is alot better then naslund
this year nazzy was hurt and the nucks had problems....morrison and bert were injured as well..and he still got 31 goals i think???

buuuut i wouldnt take 100 percent for sure elias over naslund

 

[John Flyers Fan]

I don't buy Gainey for the best LW of the last 30 years at all. Yes, he was a great defensive forwad, and yes playing in Montreal he won a bunch of Cups, but what he lacked offensively keeps him from being at the to of the list.


As for Gainey being a great or possibly even the greatest "all-around" player is a joke.

When speaking about all-around players IMO the first thing I ask myself is "How many of these situations does he play in?"

1. Power play
2. Penalty kill
3. Down a goal, offensive face-off 45 seconds to go.
4. Up a goal, defensive face-off 45 seconds to go.


The true all-around player will be on the ice in all four of the above situations.